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Old 01-09-2011, 11:20 AM   #1
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Default Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12145076

Interesting that she was also on Sarah Palin's 20 Democrats hitlist...


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Old 01-09-2011, 03:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

No surprise. It's easier to get a gun that a porn magazine in some parts of the U.S. And all the heatd political enviroment
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Neofascism is on the rise. I fear the worst for both Europeans and North Americans.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Marketing kills.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

They've known since a few hours after that the guy was a Marxist nutcase. Yet Palin and conservatives keep getting the press. That is what is sickening.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Yeah let's believe the conservative press.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Conservative press? Now that is comedy. It's the information age. His youtube and facebook among other things have all been copied and widely distributed. All of his fellow students and teachers identified him as ranting leftist. He posted pictures of Marx, Mao and Cesar Chavez all over his site.

He rants about the "racist" tea party and supports Obama. So you hold Obama responsible as people seem to want to do Palin if someone who calls himself her supporter does something stupid.

But let the revisionism begin.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
Conservative press? Now that is comedy. It's the information age. His youtube and facebook among other things have all been copied and widely distributed. All of his fellow students and teachers identified him as ranting leftist. He posted pictures of Marx, Mao and Cesar Chavez all over his site.

He rants about the "racist" tea party and supports Obama. So you hold Obama responsible as people seem to want to do Palin if someone who calls himself her supporter does something stupid.

But let the revisionism begin.
What is your source for that information?

I've looked at several news sites and have not found it.

On My Space he listed books and it contains both the communist manefesto and mein kampf. Also George Orwell and Huxley. On his last youtube video he spoke of not trusting the current government, reading the constitution, and creating his own currency. It's not very logical and he appears to have a mental illness.

Source for where I watched the videos is http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_806243.html
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
They've known since a few hours after that the guy was a Marxist nutcase. Yet Palin and conservatives keep getting the press. That is what is sickening.
Source?
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

I have not seen an authentic Facebook page for the shooter, just the fake ones that suddenly popped yesterday after the shooting with pictures of Obama and Clinton. (If any one has a link, please post it).

His myspace page was taken down pretty quickly as well, and I have not seen a screenshot of that either, just descriptions of the alleged content including a list of his favorite books ranging from 1984, Brave New World, Gulliver's Travels, The Republic, Mein Kampf, and The Communist Manifesto, and a few photos purported to be from there.

The only thing that is still on the internet intact is his youtube account (http://www.youtube.com/classitup10) with nearly incoherent ramblings about currency, grammar, fraud commited by his community college, and the incorrect year on the calendar. I have seen absolutely NOTHING from a reliable source that this guy had any political alliance to a party or side whatsoever, just ridiculous finger pointing from both sides. He seems to be just another in a long line of mentally deranged American white males who gets a gun to express himself, just when I thought we were running out of those and had to find something else to worry about.

The Sarah Palin thing is old news. It was brought up yesterday as a knee jerk reaction to the shock and grief that people felt, their search for answers in the time before this guy was identified. Palin was brought to task for that image last March when she first posted it, she defended it and left it up. Yesterday, she took it off her website (but left it on her facebook page). It is time to move on from that topic, Palin is NOT a viable part of this discussion any longer (start another topic about violent rhetoric separate from this event, she can be the center of that).

While the discourse in this country has become increasingly vitriolic and even violent (with Sharron Angle's 'second amendment solutions' comment at the top of the list), I sincerely doubt it had any effect on the actions of this particular individual.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

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Originally Posted by Fee View Post
While the discourse in this country has become increasingly vitriolic and even violent (with Sharron Angle's 'second amendment solutions' comment at the top of the list), I sincerely doubt it had any effect on the actions of this particular individual.
I don't know what affected this young man. I can't discount the rampant depictions of violence in this country as a cause though.

As unfortunate as I find Ms. Palin and her rhetoric, I doubt that was a direct cause. The shooter didn't seem affiliated with anyone in particular. His writing on You Tube just seems sad, lonely, suspicious and dearranged.

If this does serve to make public figures (of all sided) calm down a bit in their lurid speech, I for one would be thrilled. It's gotten to be too much. There was this bit that was very disturbing:

Quote:
Kelly held an event on June 12th urging supporters to "Get on Target for Victory in November/Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office/Shoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly."

Here's how the Arizona Daily Star described the event at the time:

Jesse Kelly, meanwhile, doesn't seem to be bothered in the least by the Sarah Palin controversy earlier this year, when she released a list of targeted races in crosshairs, urging followers to "reload" and "aim" for Democrats. Critics said she was inciting violence.

He seems to be embracing his fellow tea partier's idea. Kelly's campaign event website has a stern-looking photo of the former Marine in military garb holding his weapon. It includes the headline: "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."
I doubt that had anything to do with the shooting, but nevertheless, it's disturbing.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
They've known since a few hours after that the guy was a Marxist nutcase. Yet Palin and conservatives keep getting the press. That is what is sickening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
Conservative press? Now that is comedy. It's the information age. His youtube and facebook among other things have all been copied and widely distributed. All of his fellow students and teachers identified him as ranting leftist. He posted pictures of Marx, Mao and Cesar Chavez all over his site.

He rants about the "racist" tea party and supports Obama. So you hold Obama responsible as people seem to want to do Palin if someone who calls himself her supporter does something stupid.

But let the revisionism begin.
Where are your sources? I live in Arizona and local stations had dedicated whole afternoon, preempting normal programmings to report the news and I can assure everyone here none of what you said here were mentioned.

The gunman is a very disturbed person. The community college he attained had demanded in September, 2010 that he needed to get a clean bill of mental health before he could return but he then quit in October. He went on to buy the murder weapon in November thanks to the very easy gun law here.

The only thing I am very certain is if it is more difficult for individuals to obtain semi-automatic guns like the Glock he used, we are not likely to have the massacre here. But this is Arizona where a parent felt the need to carry a gun to a middle school open house night with a gun holstered is his waist without any cover where little children running around.

Also, what the Pima county sheriff said is right about the political climate here although this may not have anything to do with the gunman. When people were in anger, in rage, in distrust, etc. Violence resulted.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fee View Post
I have not seen an authentic Facebook page for the shooter, just the fake ones that suddenly popped yesterday after the shooting with pictures of Obama and Clinton. (If any one has a link, please post it).

His myspace page was taken down pretty quickly as well, and I have not seen a screenshot of that either, just descriptions of the alleged content including a list of his favorite books ranging from 1984, Brave New World, Gulliver's Travels, The Republic, Mein Kampf, and The Communist Manifesto, and a few photos purported to be from there.

The only thing that is still on the internet intact is his youtube account (http://www.youtube.com/classitup10) with nearly incoherent ramblings about currency, grammar, fraud commited by his community college, and the incorrect year on the calendar. I have seen absolutely NOTHING from a reliable source that this guy had any political alliance to a party or side whatsoever, just ridiculous finger pointing from both sides. He seems to be just another in a long line of mentally deranged American white males who gets a gun to express himself, just when I thought we were running out of those and had to find something else to worry about.

The Sarah Palin thing is old news. It was brought up yesterday as a knee jerk reaction to the shock and grief that people felt, their search for answers in the time before this guy was identified. Palin was brought to task for that image last March when she first posted it, she defended it and left it up. Yesterday, she took it off her website (but left it on her facebook page). It is time to move on from that topic, Palin is NOT a viable part of this discussion any longer (start another topic about violent rhetoric separate from this event, she can be the center of that).

While the discourse in this country has become increasingly vitriolic and even violent (with Sharron Angle's 'second amendment solutions' comment at the top of the list), I sincerely doubt it had any effect on the actions of this particular individual.
I'm not sure what his race has to do with this. Nevertheless, white Americans actually commit acts of gun violence at considerably lower rates than Americans of other races. They're also less likely to be victims of gun violence.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=570

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Old 01-10-2011, 12:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

As usual people are once again fascinating by the killer. Finger pointing and blaming all round. Meanwhile a woman lies dead.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: Dem Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Also, what the Pima county sheriff said is right about the political climate here although this may not have anything to do with the gunman. When people were in anger, in rage, in distrust, etc. Violence resulted.
I don't know which interview you saw. I'm sure he's done a bunch. In the one I saw Megyn Kelley pretty much took him to town for politicizing this:



The sheriff decries the heated political rhetoric, but when pressed admits that he has no evidence to suggest that the gunman was influenced by it, even admitting that it's only his speculative opinion. Then he goes off whining about how Republicans "blocked" Democrats from "improving" this country (again, his opinion). The sheriff, like everyone else, needs to stick to what we know. The gunman was almost certainly disturbed and for reasons that are unclear at this point targeted this woman. We don't know if his political ideology had anything to do with it, and even if it did it's not even clear what his political ideology was.

We certainly can (and should) debate that, but the sheriff should recognize that he is going to be viewed as an authority on this crime and what the gunman's motivations are. Unless he has evidence that the heated rhetoric and the gunman's political ideology had anything to do with this incident then he shouldn't be injecting his personal opinion because the public is going to interpret it as fact due to his position. All he's done is to inflame the political tensions.
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