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Old 07-27-2011, 03:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

regarding HOUSTON, still waiting for the response about it that board members promised ... What about it? Since Tzar is being punished for it, then what is the board doing for players affected by managers mistakes? Not fair to punish Tzar for houston and not take action for what was the most important thing that happened in the tournament.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

having said that, houston situation was; the manager didnt give diffs in the doubles sf saying manu86 didnt send. Updated results after the start of the final and manu86 and i had won w my picks alone vs tzar and allezalejo. Of course we didnt send on final day 1 and comically enough in final day2 picks we got better picks than our rivals.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiBeR View Post
having said that, houston situation was; the manager didnt give diffs in the doubles sf saying manu86 didnt send. Updated results after the start of the final and manu86 and i had won w my picks alone vs tzar and allezalejo. Of course we didnt send on final day 1 and comically enough in final day2 picks we got better picks than our rivals.
To be honest I still think that you could have easily sent picks just in case you won.
It is something different if a manager gives a wrong winner or enters a wrong winner in a spreadsheet, but even then you could easily find out about it from the differences. Since they were not posted in Houston, because one from your team didn´t send, I would always advice to send picks for the next round anyway, when the results are not posted. The situation in Houston stayed unclear, so you definately did have the chance to send picks.

I´m not saying that you should have sent, but I really don´t understand why you are so upset here.
The manager from Houston apologised for having given the results so late several times.
So what do you want to be done?
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

If Tzar (for example sorry) acts against the rules again does it start with a first warning (again) or straight with another ban from TT?
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boarder35m View Post
To be honest I still think that you could have easily sent picks just in case you won.
It is something different if a manager gives a wrong winner or enters a wrong winner in a spreadsheet, but even then you could easily find out about it from the differences. Since they were not posted in Houston, because one from your team didn´t send, I would always advice to send picks for the next round anyway, when the results are not posted. The situation in Houston stayed unclear, so you definately did have the chance to send picks.

I´m not saying that you should have sent, but I really don´t understand why you are so upset here.
The manager from Houston apologised for having given the results so late several times.
So what do you want to be done?
manu and me would have sent if we had known we could have won.. and we didnt send on final day 1 due to the differences being "manu86 didnt send", the manager being around and setting the tone into "allez-alejo and tzar won" by letting them celebrate without saying a word about it and posting the OOP as if nothing.

There was nothing to make manu86 and me believe we had any chance of winning the semifinals, and the manager acknowledge that himself by saying he thought we had no chance... but we won afterall

we found out after the start of the match we had won in SF.
what would have been fair is taking the last day of the final match as valid since only then we all knew we were playing the final

the fair solution would be: crowning both of us as champions since we beat our rivals in the day we sent picks (day2), but they beat us overall because we didnt send as we were made believe we lost..
(our Day2 > their Day2, but their Day 1+Day 2 > our Day 2)

it happened in the past in tennis (atp circuit) a final was not held, or there were 2 champs, or things like this.. it would be fair to have us both teams as champions.....
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

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Originally Posted by FiBeR View Post
manu and me would have sent if we had known we could have won.. and we didnt send on final day 1 due to the differences being "manu86 didnt send", the manager being around and setting the tone into "allez-alejo and tzar won" by letting them celebrate without saying a word about it and posting the OOP as if nothing.

There was nothing to make manu86 and me believe we had any chance of winning the semifinals, and the manager acknowledge that himself by saying he thought we had no chance... but we won afterall

we found out after the start of the match we had won in SF.
what would have been fair is taking the last day of the final match as valid since only then we all knew we were playing the final

the fair solution would be: crowning both of us as champions since we beat our rivals in the day we sent picks (day2), but they beat us overall because we didnt send as we were made believe we lost..
(our Day2 > their Day2, but their Day 1+Day 2 > our Day 2)

it happened in the past in tennis (atp circuit) a final was not held, or there were 2 champs, or things like this.. it would be fair to have us both teams as champions.....
I strongly disagree with you here.
You can´t compare this situation with for example Reunion where no matches were played after the Quarterfinal. You could have sent but you didn´t.
Whether you felt you had lost or not, doesn´t matter as long as the manager never definately said you lost or put you wrongly as a loser in that round.
He didn´t say anything and he apologised for this.
But you could have sent for the final and I don´t see a reason for reducing the final to one match because of this.

This will be my last post on this topic because I don´t see any sense in further discussions. Maybe other board members can explain their view better.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

well i disagree with you, that is not what proper management should be and on top of what i should or shouldnt have done first comes the management mistake here... you make it sound like i didnt send just because i wanted to.

The point is I would have sent if the management was properly done, i didnt send because the management was not correctly done and you seem to let this out of the picture. your point is.. you should send always as if nothing would have made people believe they had to send. if you want to make it sound like that, fine. it is your opinion. i complain about it and you shared your opinion which i dont agree to say the least. fine with you.

in the way things happened you are punishing players for managers mistakes. you can see it or not, that is up toi you
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzar View Post
Yes, I do believe I'm right in this situation. If I didn't then why would I be trying to explain my case? I do recognize I can come off as an asshole but if I'm going to be punished for it, they might as well do it by the rules.
You are being punished by the rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzar View Post
Nobody back's me up because nobody will go against the board, if I had a different username, and was part of the boards little clique, the story would be different.
The punishment is nothing to do with your username. I don't know whether you trul believe this or whether you're trying to push some sort of personal agenda by constantly saying this but once again it is not true. Board members have been prevented from competing in Grand Slams in the past because of the rules being applied strictly. I just don't know how many times or in how many different ways I can explain this to you because I don't believe you want to accept this.[/quote]
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

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Originally Posted by Björki View Post
If Tzar (for example sorry) acts against the rules again does it start with a first warning (again) or straight with another ban from TT?
It would depend upon the nature of the offence but the code states that a 13 week ban would be next and this would more than likely be the next step.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiBeR View Post
regarding HOUSTON, still waiting for the response about it that board members promised ... What about it? Since Tzar is being punished for it, then what is the board doing for players affected by managers mistakes? Not fair to punish Tzar for houston and not take action for what was the most important thing that happened in the tournament.
Well, let me tell you one thing. The problem regarding Houston is solved, because I will never manage again. So don't worry about me making a mistake again. And I don't like it that this comes up here again, I thought you were over it, but you clearly aren't. It was my mistake and not the board's. And the board could do nothing here, because it would be unfair to the other team in the final, as they never had a chance of beating you.

So, sorry again and indeed, please stop about this, there has been enough talk about it!
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

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WRONG. the code was not followed, the code said you had to give me an official warning first, which you never did. It's funny how im being punished for being rude and unpleasant, while you people obviously lack morals and integrity and just go around doing whatever pleases you
As I was the board member responsible for drafting the bulk of the code I ought to know what it does and does not say. You quote it correctly:-
3.11 For an infraction of the code the player will be reported to the TT board and suspended from the current tournament. Provided 3 board members approve, he will be expelled from the current tournament and his opponent given a walkover. The player may continue to send picks while his suspension is considered.

The correct procedure was followed for Houston as per the part of 3.11 in bold - you were reported to the TT board, and you would have been suspended and then expelled from the tournament, but as Gavnich says you had already lost, so this was not necessary.

NOWHERE is there any justification for your contention above that you had to be given an official warning. It has already been conceded that this would probably be best practice, and no doubt an amendment will be discussed in the off-season, but in the meantime your claim that we as board members have failed to adhere to the code is completely and utterly FALSE.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

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Originally Posted by FiBeR View Post
well i disagree with you, that is not what proper management should be and on top of what i should or shouldnt have done first comes the management mistake here... you make it sound like i didnt send just because i wanted to.

The point is I would have sent if the management was properly done, i didnt send because the management was not correctly done and you seem to let this out of the picture. your point is.. you should send always as if nothing would have made people believe they had to send. if you want to make it sound like that, fine. it is your opinion. i complain about it and you shared your opinion which i dont agree to say the least. fine with you.

in the way things happened you are punishing players for managers mistakes. you can see it or not, that is up toi you
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvugt View Post
Well, let me tell you one thing. The problem regarding Houston is solved, because I will never manage again. So don't worry about me making a mistake again. And I don't like it that this comes up here again, I thought you were over it, but you clearly aren't. It was my mistake and not the board's. And the board could do nothing here, because it would be unfair to the other team in the final, as they never had a chance of beating you.

So, sorry again and indeed, please stop about this, there has been enough talk about it!
This situation is a bit like a football referee wrongly awarding a penalty. The losing team can complain all they like, but FIFA are not going to change the result or order a replay.

The manager has admitted he was wrong and apologized. Let that be an end to it.

FiBeR, you claim that the board punishes players, but not managers. How do you know? You are not privy to our discussions. rvugt did the honourable thing in admitting that he did not have time to do his duties properly, and would not manage in the future. If he had not done so, perhaps the board would have suspended him from management. Or put him on "probation". Or insisted that he have an assistant manager for all his tournaments. Would any of that have made you feel better?

Please be assured that the board is not a power hungry cartel. We are just a bunch of committed players who try our best to take responsibility and give something back to the game we enjoy. Much of what we do is behind the scenes, and most problems are resolved without the need to "go public".

Give us a break.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

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Give us a break.

Give me a break.

It seems to me all you do is adjust the rules around for your very own convenience. I was never given an official warning, or anything along those lines I was never told that if I did it again, I would be punished, NOTHING whatsoever.

You guys are just hypocrites and decide how to deal with everything depending on who you're dealing with and what would make you happier. Like straight up, that is what I've seen you do. You want to punish me as a player, but when you or the managers screw up you "want a break" - Mediocre.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:38 AM   #29
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77 View Post
You are being punished by the rules
[/quote]

By the rules you make up on the go.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: TT Complaints and Disciplinary thread

well I am complaining, isn't this what the thread is for?
you kind of ask for it and then complain about the complains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenoldie View Post

Please be assured that the board is not a power hungry cartel. We are just a bunch of committed players who try our best to take responsibility and give something back to the game we enjoy. Much of what we do is behind the scenes, and most problems are resolved without the need to "go public".

Give us a break.
I never asked for ruben to be punished for it, he made the mistake and he apologized, i think you board are in charge of the decisions you make, not a guy like rvugt who has no power to do anything about it .. since he doesn't make the rules. If a referee makes a mistake, as you said it, you should complain to the FIFA, not to the referee.. gee, i dont get why you so upset

if it is for me, i would play any tournament managed by rvugt and i feel he is a great manager who made a mistake, but that cost us the final of a tournament, a title which was not played under fair basis.

ive heard from the board "it is your fault for not sending" and i do not accept it. using your football example it would be "it is your fault for defending closely in your area".. like, if someone has a saying in the way i should or shouldnt defend .. completely mental.



regarding the "Give us a break".. well, let me remind you i got this pm from you.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenoldie
Just to let you know that your post in the rules thread is not being ignored.

All aspects of the Houston shambles are being actively discussed by the TT Board, and we will let you know of any decisions.
this dated april 13th.
just expressing my complain. i gave you a 3 month and 15 days break...
anyway end of subject i guess, i read enough about it. thanks anyway, just thought there was actually a discussion about it and that i would get a reply after the pm.... but i guess it's pretty much the same thing said 3 months and 17 days ago publicly on the other thread and that silence meant "no decision is to be made".
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