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Old 12-08-2010, 07:17 PM   #1
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Default TT changes 2011

Off-season = time to voice your opinions and ideas on possible changes/improvements to the game. If you have any suggestions to make this game better, please post them here.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

I've checked some threads (Rules, Managers, FAQ) and found some discussions/suggestions/unsolved questions:

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=897 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=901

- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1567 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1570

- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1576

- Code of conduct (Implementation phase) - discussion and poll here: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=171785

- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)

- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)

- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1684

- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?)

- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?)

- CH entries: Top 30 singles => allowed to play challengers in Davis Cup/GS 2nd weeks as LEs (any changes?)
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

I've checked some threads (Rules, Managers, FAQ) and found some discussions/suggestions/unsolved questions:

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=897 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=901
I'd like to see something done, but it would be very difficult to police without throwing an extra burden on the managers. A central commitment thread would be a huge amount of work for somebody, and any system would have to be foolproof to be fair. I can imagine the uproar if Player A was caught and punished, but a similar offence from Player B went unnoticed.

- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1567 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1570
I can see pros and cons in this argument, but on balance a live match is preferable to a walkover. Would only support it for round 1, QD & MD, not later rounds

- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1576
This would make life SO MUCH EASIER for managers in these challengers. I know it would mean a flood of last-minute entries, but I think that would be preferable to having to check every commitment against the list of GS QFs. Also it would give priority to those playing the challenger only.

- Code of conduct (Implementation phase) - discussion and poll here: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=171785
No further comment at the moment

- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)
Definitely No to incentives for managers. Managers manage for love of the game, and if we can do it without abuse, with clear guidelines and with the minimum of controversy that is all we ask. Hopefully the Code of Conduct will persuade old managers to come back, and new ones to volunteer without the need for incentives.
WCs, definitely no as well. The rest of MTF is riddled with cliques, favouritism and back-stabbing, and we want no part of it in TT. I fear WCs would open a can of worms.


- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)
I would very much like to see the rule changed so that LEs CANNOT be seeded. LE status is intended as a handicap, whether because the player missed the deadline or because of the Top 30 rule. If a top player still ends up as #1 seed in the challenger in GS WK2, it rather destroys the point of the top 30 rule.

- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1684
No strong opinions

- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?)
If a player misses picks for his First Round Robin match he should be replaced by an alt for the whole tournament. If he picks for the First round, but then misses the Second round, his First round result should be deleted, and the group continue with 3 players. If he picks for First and Second round but misses Third round his opponent gets a lucky win - no action.

- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?) Yes, CB should be used before GD as in all other tournaments.

- CH entries: Top 30 singles => allowed to play challengers in Davis Cup/GS 2nd weeks as LEs (any changes?)
No changes apart from not allowing LEs to be seeded as argued above.

Other topics
SEs I would like to see the SE abolished as largely irrelevant, but I accept that's not going to happen!
Instead I would like to see the onus firmly on the player to apply for SE, both in the tournament thread and by PM to the Manager. The separate thread for SEs was a good idea, but not always used. I know some managers (myself included) check all the other tournaments to see if anyone might be eligible for SE, but we shouldn't.

Seedings I would like seedings and everything else based on the entry list rankings and not on the latest rankings as at present. It is tedious having to go through most of the entries again just before making the draws, and usually there are hardly any relevant differences.


It will be clear that most of my comments are intended to make life a little easier for managers. This is deliberate.
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=897 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=901
This would be really hard to police, and virtually impossible to prove anyone did it deliberately. The current system isn't perfect, but TT doesnt usually punish its participants and I cant see a reason for doing it here as many double commitments are simply an honest mistake and are often committed by newbies who aren't completely familiar with the rules. A central commitment thread should be considered though for challengers, as generally this is where most double commitments occur. But I dont support a DQ system.

- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1567 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1570
Agree with Goldenoldie's comments.

- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1576
I agree in principle but the problem is that if someone is away from the internet for a few days, they will miss the chance to commit when they could have earlier. As difficult as it is for managers, I say keep it as is.

- Code of conduct (Implementation phase) - discussion and poll here: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=171785
Agree with Goldenoldie's earlier comments here - we need one, particularly against abuse to managers. We can't afford to lose more long-time players for irresponsible behaviour.

- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)
I disagree with Jim here. I see no harm in putting in place a small incentive system to get more managers, particularly lower ranked newbies, into management. A wildcard to qualies in an ATP 250 or 500 event would be sufficient, or maybe a spot in a 250 draw. We could limit it to one wildcard per year. Fact is there are fewer and fewer regular managers, and the health of the game will be improved by getting new managers, who will then understand the rules better and ultimately understand better the time commitment needed for TT management.

- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)
No strong feelings here, I don't mind that LE's are seeded

- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1684
Current system is fine

- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?)
Yes

- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?) Yes

- CH entries: Top 30 singles => allowed to play challengers in Davis Cup/GS 2nd weeks as LEs (any changes?)
No changes

Other topics

I managed quite a few US challengers last year, and we are really struggling to fill the draws in many of them due to lack of livescoring in particular. Some - such as Dallas, Sarasota - are well run and have to stay on the calendar, but maybe we could reduce the number. Scrambling until the last minute to fill the draw is not fun, and doubles rarely start until the Quarterfinals
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Old 12-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

People committing to 2 tournaments in the same week

I don't think this is a huge issue but maybe there should be a punishment to discourage people from doing that. I don't think anyone would do it deliberately because it's not possible to get away with it - at the very latest Gavnich would notice it when he entered the tournament results into the rankings system. So obviously it can only happen for two reasons - either the person is a newbie and doesn't know this rule yet or he/she is just careless and forgot about another commitment in the same week. If it's a newbie then no punishment needed - just explain the rules. If it's not a newbie (let's define a newbie as a player with no ranking) then I propose this:

- If the player himself notices the double commitment before either tournament has started (that includes qualifying) and withdraws from one tournament then no penalty (because no harm done).
- Otherwise player gets disqualified from all that week's tournaments. (And by 'otherwise' I mean if either tournament has already started or a manager or someone else caught the double commitment.)

What to do in Round 1 if there are no LLs and neither player in a match sends picks?

This applies to both qualifying round 1 and main draw round 1. The current rule is that the higher ranked player advances. I wouldn't mind if instead the best loser in round 1 got the win. This would mean changing the draw after the round is done, yes, and I'm not a big fan of that because it would never happen in real life. But I believe it could work well for TT. But if the first round lasts 2 days then this rule doesn't apply.

Commitments for challengers during GS "In if out of GS"

The trouble with this kind of commitment is that it requires a lot of work from the manager to check who's in and who's out of the Grand Slam so the suggestion is to allow commitments only after the player is out of the GS. I honestly never thought about this but it seems like a great idea to me. Wait a minute... No, I think there is a problem after all. ibreak4coffee mentioned that the commitment window would be very small but I don't think it's a problem because you have to be online every day anyway to send picks for the Grand Slam so you can just as well commit to a challenger if you lose.

The problem with the proposed rule is that it would reduce the number of players who could play these 2nd week challengers. Normally, you can play CH qualifying if you lose in the third round or earlier in the GS, and you can play CH main draw if you lose in the 4th round. If the rule was changed then all those people who lost in the 4th round would not be able to play challengers because the qualifying would have already started so they wouldn't be able to commit. So because of this reason I have to say No to the proposed rule change.

Incentives for managers

I don't think any WCs or anything like that is necessary. The only thing that would be nice is to have a table which shows who managed what tournaments during a year. This table already exists for earlier years but it hasn't been updated for 2009 or 2010 and I think it would be really great if someone did it. It would be one of the best incentives for me personally.

Should LEs be seeded?

Yes, I believe the current situation is fine.

How long does a player have to be inactive before he/she is ineligible for a PR?

18 months would be fine.

CH entries: Top 30 singles

I think everyone should be able to play challengers whenever they feel like it. Currently Top 30 singles players are not allowed to play challengers on 'normal' weeks and I think that should be changed because I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to commit as LEs. It would not change anything really because in 99% cases Top 30 players will not want to play challengers because of the low points. But occasionally someone might want to play - either because it's his home town challenger or because he wants to play doubles with a friend or just for the fun of it. If this Top 30 player commits as LE then he's not stealing any spots from lower ranked players so why not let him?

Together with this change, I also propose to turn Top 30 into Top 40 because all Top 40 players should be able to find a spot in an ATP event so there's no reason for them to play challengers. But if you decide against the first part of my suggestion then please keep it Top 30 only.

Seedings date

I like Goldenoldie's idea about basing seedings on the same entry list, that is, rankings from 2 weeks ago instead of rankings from 1 week ago. I agree, it's very tiring for the manager to have to go through all the rankings list again (both singles and doubles) and usually there are very little changes. Please agree to this idea, it would make managing easier
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Evita- View Post
[color="Sienna"]
What to do in Round 1 if there are no LLs and neither player in a match sends picks?

This applies to both qualifying round 1 and main draw round 1. The current rule is that the higher ranked player advances. I wouldn't mind if instead the best loser in round 1 got the win. This would mean changing the draw after the round is done, yes, and I'm not a big fan of that because it would never happen in real life. But I believe it could work well for TT. But if the first round lasts 2 days then this rule doesn't apply.
Lets make this happen

Can we also think about banning 4 match 1st rounds? I know its a little more work for the manager on a Tuesday, but its far too few matches. And it invariably ends up with matches going to PTS. 6 should be the minimum.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

One week and less than 10 posts

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=897 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=901
I'd also like to do something about it, but I don't think there's an ideal solution to this problem. I don't like the fact that some players could be punished for a double commitment and others who commited the same violation not. The second commitment isn't valid if the player doesn't withdraw from the first tournament he/she entered, so if the double commitment is noticed before the start of the tournament, the player is not included in two lists and therefore he's not punished.

- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1567 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1570
I'd rather change the draw before diffs are posted by giving byes to the top seeds. Players shouldn't have a second chance in knockout tournaments. But since it'd only be used in first rounds (and since this situation is rare), I wouldn't mind if the LL rule was used.

- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1576
I agree with Evita. 4th round losers wouldn't be able to play those challengers. If you have time to send picks, you surely have time to commit to a tournament, so the commitment window wouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps we could implement this rule and allow the "in if out of the GS" commitments only to GS 4th round players, but I'm not sure if it'd help that much. Well, at least managers wouldn't have to check the qualifying entry list.


- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)
I'm totally against it. Managers should manage for fun, nothing else. But if the number of managers keeps decreasing, maybe it'll be necessary soon.

- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)
I think top 30 players shouldn't be seeded in challengers they're allowed to enter as LEs. If there are byes, they are the first players to get them.

- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1684
Ok with 18 months.

- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?)
I'm not sure if there should be alts in WTF. But if yes, the replacement should be permanent and should be able to happen in any of the rounds. No result should be deleted. The current tie-break rules would have to be adapted to the possibility of alt replacements, just like the ATP ones, but this part is easy to do.

- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?)
CB before GD, but after 3 PTSs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenoldie View Post
SEs I would like to see the SE abolished as largely irrelevant, but I accept that's not going to happen!
Instead I would like to see the onus firmly on the player to apply for SE, both in the tournament thread and by PM to the Manager. The separate thread for SEs was a good idea, but not always used. I know some managers (myself included) check all the other tournaments to see if anyone might be eligible for SE, but we shouldn't.

Seedings I would like seedings and everything else based on the entry list rankings and not on the latest rankings as at present. It is tedious having to go through most of the entries again just before making the draws, and usually there are hardly any relevant differences.
Players must apply for the SE (not necessarily by PM, but at least by posting in the tournament thread) before the final deadline. I agree that managers shouldn't have to check all the other tournament threads.

I like this second idea. It'd make management much easier. It's understandable to use the latest rankings for seedings in ATP, as they use rankings from six weeks before the start of the tournament for the entry list, but TT's entries are based on rankings from two weeks before the events
I'd add to this rule change that any other decision that requires the use of rankings should be based on the entry list rankings (SEs, TB decisions, LL/Alt placements).

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Old 12-15-2010, 10:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Evita- View Post
Incentives for managers

I don't think any WCs or anything like that is necessary. The only thing that would be nice is to have a table which shows who managed what tournaments during a year. This table already exists for earlier years but it hasn't been updated for 2009 or 2010 and I think it would be really great if someone did it. It would be one of the best incentives for me personally.
Here (2010) I updated these tables for the award nominations.
Code:
02/01/2010   Hopman Cup Exho    H      16 teams         Luinir
04/01/2010   Doha               H      32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
04/01/2010   Brisbane           H      32/16/16/8       keqtqiadv
04/01/2010   Chennai            H      32/16/16/8       orangehat
04/01/2010   Sao Paulo CH       H      32/16/16/8       Mago#01 
04/01/2010   Noumea CH          H      32/16/16/8       maru_angi 

11/01/2010   Sydney             H      32/32/16/16      Allez-Alejo 
11/01/2010   Auckland           H      32/32/16/16      keqtqiadv
11/01/2010   Salinas CH         H      32/32/16/16      Snowwy
13/01/2010   Kooyong Exho       H      16 players       Labamba

18/01/2010   Australian Open S  H      128/128          l_mac  
18/01/2010   Australian Open D  H      64/64            -Evita-

25/01/2010   Heilbronn CH       IH     32/32/16/16      mcarvalho     
25/01/2010   Honolulu CH        H      32/32/16/16      Luinir 
25/01/2010   Bucaramanga CH     CL     32/32/16/16      Marita

01/02/2010   Santiago           CL     32/16/16/8       Mago#01 
01/02/2010   Zagreb             IH     32/16/16/8       Troickitard
01/02/2010   Johannesburg       H      32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
01/02/2010   Dallas CH          IH     32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee 
01/02/2010   Burnie CH          H      32/16/16/8       Luinir 

08/02/2010   Rotterdam          IH     32/32/16/16      Boarder35m 
08/02/2010   Costa do Sauipe    CL     32/32/16/16      juakos17
08/02/2010   San Jose           IH     32/32/16/16      kai.
08/02/2010   Bergamo CH         IH     32/16/16/8       orangehat

15/02/2010   Memphis            IH     32/16/16/8       l_mac
15/02/2010   Marseille          IH     32/16/16/8       Gavnich77
15/02/2010   Buenos Aires       CL     32/16/16/8       Spadea TT
15/02/2010   Belgrade CH        IS     32/16/16/8       kengyin

15/02/2010   Tanger CH          CL     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho

22/02/2010   Dubai              H      32/32/16/16      -Evita-
22/02/2010   Acapulco           CL     32/32/16/16      kai.
22/02/2010   Delray Beach       H      32/32/16/16      Troickitard
22/02/2010   Meknes CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Colt th magnific

01/03/2010   Davis Cup I        -      32 teams         keqtqiadv
01/03/2010   Cherbourg CH       IH     32/32/16/16      Boarder35m
 
08/03/2010   Indian Wells S     H      128/64           l_mac
08/03/2010   Indian Wells D     H      64/32            -Evita-
08/03/2010   Rabat CH           CL     32/16/16/8       Luinir

15/03/2010   Sunrise CH         H      32/32/16/16      Mago#01  
15/03/2010   Marrakech CH       CL     32/32/16/16      mcarvalho
15/03/2010   Caltanissetta CH   CL     32/32/16/16      orangehat

22/03/2010   Miami S            H      128/64           Boarder35m 
22/03/2010   Miami D            H      64/32            Allez-Alejo
22/03/2010   Barletta CH        CL     32/16/16/8       Luinir

29/03/2010   Napoli CH          CL     32/32/16/16      Genius1787
29/03/2010   St. Brieuc CH      ICL    32/32/16/16      CoolyBri

05/04/2010   Houston            CL     32/32/16/16      Deathless Mortal
05/04/2010   Casablanca         CL     32/32/16/16      mcarvalho  
05/04/2010   Bogota CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Luinir
05/04/2010   Monza CH           CL     32/16/16/8       orangehat

12/04/2010   Monte-Carlo        CL     64/32/32/16      l_mac 
12/04/2010   Johannesburg CH    H      32/16/16/8       keqtqiadv
12/04/2010   Baton Rouge CH     H      32/16/16/8       Luinir
12/04/2010   Blumenau CH        CL     32/16/16/8       juakos17

19/04/2010   Barcelona          CL     64/32/32/16      Boarder35m
19/04/2010   Athens CH          H      32/16/16/8       Colt th magnific 
19/04/2010   Tallahassee CH     H      32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee
19/04/2010   Rome CH            CL     32/16/16/8       orangehat

26/04/2010   Rome               CL     64/32/32/16      Allez-Alejo 
26/04/2010   Tunis CH           CL     32/16/16/8       rvugt 
26/04/2010   Ostrava CH         CL     32/16/16/8       Gavnich77
26/04/2010   Rhodes CH          H      32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie

03/05/2010   Estoril            CL     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
03/05/2010   Munich             CL     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho 
03/05/2010   Belgrade           CL     32/16/16/8       CoolyBri 
03/05/2010   Ramat Hasharon CH  H      32/16/16/8       orangehat
03/05/2010   Savannah CH        CL     32/16/16/8       l_mac

10/05/2010   Madrid             CL     64/32/32/16      keqtqiadv
10/05/2010   Bordeaux CH        CL     32/16/16/8       Genius1787
10/05/2010   Sarasota CH        CL     32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee
10/05/2010   Zagreb CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Machiavelli

17/05/2010   WTC Düsseldorf     CL     8 teams          ExcaliburII
17/05/2010   Nice               CL     32/32/16/16      rvugt 
17/05/2010   Fergana CH         H      32/32/16/16      orangehat
17/05/2010   Cremona CH         H      32/32/16/16      Goldenoldie

24/05/2010   Roland Garros S    CL     128/128          -Evita-
24/05/2010   Roland Garros D    CL     64/64            Boarder35m
24/05/2010   Carson CH          H      32/16/16/8       l_mac

31/05/2010   Prostejov CH       CL     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho
31/05/2010   Furth CH           CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie 
31/05/2010   Nottingham CH      G      32/16/16/8       rvugt 
31/05/2010   Ojai CH            H      32/16/16/8       chowdahead25

07/06/2010   Queen's            G      64/32/32/16      Allez-Alejo
07/06/2010   Halle              G      32/16/16/8       mcarvalho 
07/06/2010   Lugano CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
07/06/2010   Kosice CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Nathaliia

14/06/2010   Eastbourne         G      32/32/16/16      Ozone 
14/06/2010   's-Hertogenbosch   G      32/32/16/16      Boarder35m
14/06/2010   Bytom CH           CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
14/06/2010   Milan CH           CL     32/16/16/8       Hotzenplotz

21/06/2010   Wimbledon S        G      128/128          -Evita-
21/06/2010   Wimbledon D        G      64/64            CoolyBri 
21/06/2010   Reggio Emilia CH   CL     32/16/16/8       Nathaliia

28/06/2010   Braunschweig CH    CL     32/16/16/8       CoolyBri 
28/06/2010   Turin CH           CL     32/16/16/8       Gavnich77
28/06/2010   Arad CH            CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
28/06/2010   Winnetka CH        H      32/16/16/8       chowdahead25

05/07/2010   Davis Cup II       -       8 teams         keqtqiadv
05/07/2010   Newport            G      32/32/16/16      Boarder35m
05/07/2010   Cordoba CH         H      32/16/16/8       ZackBusner 
05/07/2010   Scheveningen CH    CL     32/16/16/8       CoolyBri
05/07/2010   Oberstaufen CH     CL     32/16/16/8       Luinir

12/07/2010   Stuttgart          CL     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
12/07/2010   Båstad             CL     32/16/16/8       keqtqiadv 
12/07/2010   Bogota CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Colt th magnific 
12/07/2010   Rimini CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Luinir
12/07/2010   Aptos CH           H      32/16/16/8       juakos17

19/07/2010   Hamburg            CL     64/32/32/16      mcarvalho
19/07/2010   Atlanta            H      32/16/16/8       chowdahead25 
19/07/2010   Poznan CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Colt th magnific
19/07/2010   Orbetello CH       CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie

26/07/2010   Los Angeles        H      32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee 
26/07/2010   Gstaad             CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie 
26/07/2010   Umag               CL     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
26/07/2010   Cordenons CH       CL     32/16/16/8       orangehat
26/07/2010   Tampere CH         CL     32/16/16/8       Hotzenplotz

02/08/2010   Washington         H      64/32/32/16      ibreak4coffee 
02/08/2010   Vancouver CH       H      32/16/16/8       chowdahead25
02/08/2010   San Marino CH      CL     32/16/16/8       JM-Del-Potro 
02/08/2010   Kitzbühel CH       CL     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho 

09/08/2010   Toronto            H      64/32/32/16      Nathaliia 
09/08/2010   Istanbul CH        H      32/16/16/8       Hotzenplotz
09/08/2010   Binghamton CH      H      32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee 
09/08/2010   Trani CH           CL     32/16/16/8       Stancho123

16/08/2010   Cincinnati         H      64/32/32/16      Boarder35m 
16/08/2010   Karshi CH          H      32/16/16/8       GoBlakeGo
16/08/2010   Salvador CH        H      32/16/16/8       diego36arg
16/08/2010   San Sebastian CH   CL     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho 

23/08/2010   New Haven          H      64/32/32/16      Labamba 
23/08/2010   Astana CH          H      32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
23/08/2010   Manerbio CH        CL     32/16/16/8       igralec33 
23/08/2010   Geneva CH          CL     32/16/16/8       GoBlakeGo

30/08/2010   US Open S          H      128/128          Boarder35m 
30/08/2010   US Open D          H      64/64            rvugt
30/08/2010   Como CH            CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie

06/09/2010   Genova CH          CL     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
06/09/2010   Seville CH         CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
06/09/2010   Alphen CH          CL     32/16/16/8       scoobs
06/09/2010   St. Remy CH        H      32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie

13/09/2010   Davis Cup III      -      20 teams         keqtqiadv
13/09/2010   Szczecin CH        CL     32/16/16/8       Hotzenplotz 
13/09/2010   Banja Luka CH      CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
13/09/2010   Belo Horizonte CH  CL     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
13/09/2010   Tulsa CH           H      32/16/16/8       GoBlakeGo 

20/09/2010   Metz               IH     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho 
20/09/2010   Bucharest          CL     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
20/09/2010   Bogota CH          CL     32/16/16/8       rvugt
20/09/2010   Trnava CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Hotzenplotz
20/09/2010   Izmir CH           H      32/16/16/8       orangehat

27/09/2010   Bangkok            IH     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
27/09/2010   Kuala Lumpur       IH     32/16/16/8       orangehat 
27/09/2010   Montevideo CH      CL     32/16/16/8       GoBlakeGo
27/09/2010   Cali CH            CL     32/16/16/8       CoolyBri
27/09/2010   Napoli CH          CL     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie

04/10/2010   Beijing            H      32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
04/10/2010   Tokyo              H      32/16/16/8       -Evita- 
04/10/2010   Mons CH            IH     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho
04/10/2010   Buenos Aires CH    CL     32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee   
04/10/2010   Palermo CH         CL     32/16/16/8       scoobs

11/10/2010   Shanghai           H      64/32/32/16      CoolyBri
11/10/2010   Tashkent CH        H      32/16/16/8       -Evita- 
11/10/2010   Asuncion CH        CL     32/16/16/8       diego36arg 
11/10/2010   Rennes CH          IH     32/16/16/8       bandtree 

18/10/2010   Moscow             IH     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie 
18/10/2010   Stockholm          IH     32/16/16/8       mcarvalho 
18/10/2010   Orleans CH         IH     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
18/10/2010   Seoul CH           H      32/16/16/8       GoBlakeGo
18/10/2010   Santiago CH        CL     32/16/16/8       ibreak4coffee

25/10/2010   Montpellier        IH     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
25/10/2010   Vienna             IH     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m 
25/10/2010   St. Petersburg     IH     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie 
25/10/2010   Sao Paulo CH       CL     32/16/16/8       diego36arg

01/11/2010   Basel              IH     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
01/11/2010   Valencia           IH     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
01/11/2010   Astana CH          IH     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie 
01/11/2010   Eckental CH        IS     32/16/16/8       ZackBusner 
01/11/2010   Medellin CH        CL     32/16/16/8       mmarto193 

08/11/2010   Paris              IH     64/32/32/16      mcarvalho 
08/11/2010   Ortisei CH         IS     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie 
08/11/2010   Aachen CH          IS     32/16/16/8       bandtree 
08/11/2010   Guayaquil CH       CL     32/16/16/8       diego36arg  

15/11/2010   Bratislava CH      IH     32/16/16/8       Goldenoldie
15/11/2010   Salzburg CH        IH     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
15/11/2010   Champaign CH       IH     32/16/16/8       Boarder35m
15/11/2010   Cancun CH          CL     32/16/16/8       mmarto193

21/11/2010   WTF London         IH     8/-/8/-          scoobs

22/11/2010   Helsinki CH        IH     32/16/16/8       scoobs 
22/11/2010   Buenos Aires CH    CL     32/16/16/8       diego36arg 
22/11/2010   Toyota CH          IS     32/16/16/8       mmarto193

29/11/2010   Davis Cup Final    -      2 teams          keqtqiadv
Code:
Managers	Tournaments
Boarder35m	19
Goldenoldie	19
mcarvalho	14
scoobs	11
orangehat	10
Luinir	9
keqtqiadv	9
ibreak4coffee	8
 -Evita-	7
CoolyBri	7
l_mac	6
rvugt	5
diego36arg	5
Hotzenplotz	5
GoBlakeGo	5
Allez-Alejo	4
Colt th Magnific	4
Mago#01	3
Gavnich77	3
mmarto193	3
Nathaliia	3
juakos17	3
kai.	2
Jessebel	2
Genius1787	2
ZackBusner	2
Labamba	2
bandtree	2
Snowwy	1
maru_angi	1
Deathless Mortal	1
Ozone	1
ExcaliburII	1
Machiavelli	1
JM-Del-Potro	1
Spadea TT	1
kengyin	1
Marita	1
Stancho123	1
igralec33	1
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?)
Well, as this happened this year in a tournament I managed I am thinking about a way how to avoid this.
Sometimes you see that new players commit to 3 tournaments in the same week because they simply don´t know about this rule. These players shouldn´t be punished because they simply use the ATP rule, where you can commit to several tournaments in one week.
It should be different for players who would be seeded, especcially if they could possibly get a bye in 1st round.


- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?)
I am not sure if many matches are decided because of the rule "late picks better than no picks". Whenever I managed and both players didn´t send, they didn´t send until the last match started either, so it was always a win on ranking. I find this win on ranking most unfair especcially because often the player who advanced doesn´t send for the next round either (he/she probably forgot about the commitment).
I´d rather change the draw when both players fail to send than keep the late picks rule.


- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?)
The challengers often have big problems getting enough players, if the commitment window would be shorter it might be a problem in these weeks as well.
Managing these tournaments can be really hard, so I completely understand the idea behind it, but it might be even more frustrating for a manager if he/she has to say that a tournament is cancelled because there are not enough players


- Code of conduct (Implementation phase) -
A very good idea, which should be pursued

- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)
I agree with keqtqiadv here.
I don´t like the idea of giving WC to someone who manages, but more managers are definitely needed


- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)
If players are LEs because of their top 30 ranking, it sounds strange that they could be seeded.
Especially because of the low numbers of players in some 90 points challengers the 1st round bye is nearly guaranteed.
The situaton is not comparable to the ATP because - except for Rimouski Ch - there are nearly no 1st round byes in any tournament - of course it is different in the qualification.
So if the idea is to keep top 30 players from taking spots from lower ranked players it would be consequent to give the seedings to the top 8 on the entry list


- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR
18 months is OK

- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?)
If a player is replaced by an alt it should be permanent.
Since the WTF always starts on sunday the alt could also enter a challenger in that week.
Does a player have to say that he hopes for an alt spot (like a LL in a Grand Slam)?


- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?)
GD is quite difficult for the manager (and probably for the players as well) and if there are only 3 matches per round anyway I would prefer to use CB to GD.

- CH entries: Top 30 singles => allowed to play challengers in Davis Cup/GS 2nd weeks as LEs (any changes?)
I compleely agree with Evita here. Top 40 players should enter any challenger as LE

- Seedings
I completely agree with Goldenoldie here. It really takes a lot of time to go through the singles and doubles lists twice. I´d rather use the entry list ranking for seedings as well.
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
I've checked some threads (Rules, Managers, FAQ) and found some discussions/suggestions/unsolved questions:

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=897 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=901
None of us have time to go through potentially 5 entry lists for each tournament we run to make sure there are no duplicate entries. So I think when it does come to light, the player involved should be withdrawn from both tournaments and any points gained that week voided. They just must remember to withdraw from one before entering another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1567 / http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1570
When it's not "pure" in terms of tennis, it's not pure in terms of tennis anyway cos you never have a situation where both players aren't able to play the match. So I vote that if its R1 quallies or R1 main draw, if both players fail to send for a singles match then the most successful lucky loser in R1 should take the draw spot in R2. If all 4 doubles players fail to send for R1 then ditto for the best lucky loser team (this never happens in doubles though esp main draw singles with a 2 day round).

I think this would help to mitigate one of the most frustrating aspects of TT - when you lose having the second best picks/SRs score of the entire round but lost to the first best - and then players are getting through the round having not even sent picks.

I still think that late picks > no picks, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?): http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1576
No, I don't see how that would help much. Running CHs in Slam weeks is just a pain in the ass regardless. It should be kept as it is but the procedures the manager needs to follow when setting up the tournament needs to be made clearer somehow - it's not easy to know what to do when - who is still allowed on the entry list and who must be removed, and at what point, what to do with qualification, etc. It's hard work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- Code of conduct (Implementation phase) - discussion and poll here: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=171785
Players who are disrespectful to the manager without cause should be referred to the board and they should take the power to suspend/ban players from playing. Without cause meaning there's no justifiable reason - I can understand people getting pissed off if the manager takes hours and hours to do things and never explains but if they've explained beforehand diffs will be late, ask someone else to post the OOP, etc, then players have no right to get arsey just because it's not being played to a perfect schedule in their eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)
I'd like to say yes but I think a wildcard system would be very difficult to implement unless it was being implemented across all tournaments - managers wouldn't know if they needed to leave a WC slot or not. I do think we need to find incentives for managers but not sure WCs are the way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)
Yes, I don't see why not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...postcount=1684
I have no opinion on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?
I think it gets very complicated if you sub in people past the first match of the RR series so I would say only for the first match and that player then plays the rest of the tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?)
My view is CB should be used before TB in RR2, RR3, SFs and F, even though all matches are PTS matches. Players hate GD deciding matches and I don't blame them - CB is a much fairer reflection of a player's performance than GD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- CH entries: Top 30 singles => allowed to play challengers in Davis Cup/GS 2nd weeks as LEs (any changes?)
Top 40 should be allowed to play as LEs IMO.


Seedings - I agree seedings should be done from the same rankings as the entry list. Having to go through both to check for the seedings is a pain in the ASS!!!!

SEs - I think we need to establish a clear rule on this - some managers automatically check and fill in the SEs based on the previous week's results, others only assign the SE if it's been applied for in the tournament thread or the SEs thread. The SEs thread is hardly used and I think a lot of TT players don't really understand the whole SE thing. I would agree that SEs should only be assigned if the player involved signs up for the tournament and then applies for the SE if their results allow it. The onus should be on the player to ask for it.

Last edited by scoobs : 12-19-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:49 PM   #11
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

It's still my intention to put together a managers guide for running standard TT tournaments - ATP500, 250 and CH tournaments on normal weeks. Do you have any idea when these changes will be voted on and finalised so I can incorporate any relevant outcomes into my guide?
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Old 12-19-2010, 05:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
It's still my intention to put together a managers guide for running standard TT tournaments - ATP500, 250 and CH tournaments on normal weeks. Do you have any idea when these changes will be voted on and finalised so I can incorporate any relevant outcomes into my guide?
during next week for sure
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Old 12-19-2010, 08:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

On the issue of double commitments, if we decide to put in place some system or thread to track it I'd be glad to help
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

- Double commitment (Should it be punished? How? How would we control it?):

I don't think that we need some punishment or extra work to control it. How many cases do we have? One or two for year?

- Round 1 (MD & Q): when both players fail to send in picks, ranking decides (LL instead of ranking? Draw change before diffs are posted?):

I like the LL in Round 1 of MD & QD. I don't agree with draw changes.

- CHs & GSs played in the same week (Should players commit to the CH only after being eliminated from the GS?):

No. The managers have to check it anyway. I think we should leave it as it is.

- Code of conduct (Implementation phase) - discussion and poll here:

Ok.

- Incentives for managers (Necessary? WCs? How would they work?)

No. We need managers committed with management, no need managers thinking about any incentives.

- LEs & seedings (Should LEs be able to be seeded?)

I think that LE shouldn't be seeded.

- Clarification on PR rule - how long a player has to be inactive for before he/she is inelgible for a PR

18 months is fine.

- WTF alts (Should players who forget to send picks for a WTF Round Robin match be replaced by alts? If yes, should this replacement be permanent or just for that particular round?)

Yes, they should be replaced. Permanently.

- WTF TB (Should CB be used before GD? Should previous results count at all?)

Yes.

- CH entries: Top 30 singles => allowed to play challengers in Davis Cup/GS 2nd weeks as LEs (any changes?)

Top 40 should be allowed to play in any challengers as LEs.


SEs

The players should apply for the SEs spots.

Seedings

Seedings should be based on the entry-list ranking.

Points breakdown

I think that the players who lost in the final qualifying round should have some ranking points. If they won, at least, one early round, of course.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: TT changes 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarvalho View Post
-
Points breakdown

I think that the players who lost in the final qualifying round should have some ranking points. If they won, at least, one early round, of course.
I'm very much in favour of this.
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