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Old 12-05-2010, 01:57 PM   #1
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Default 2011 FITD changes

Any suggestions for the new season ??
Any problems to be solved ??
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Old 12-05-2010, 02:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

I have a suggestion for the ranking points system.
In many games the number of players, who added their draws, is too smaller than the main draw. So, those who lie in the bottom of the standings after final results take some points more than they deserve. I'll explain my point of view by an example :

The ranking points of GS are as follows :

Code:
Grand Slam (128)
1 -- 2000	25 -- 129	49 -- 66	73 -- 33
2 -- 1200	26 -- 124	50 -- 65	74 -- 31
3 --- 960	27 -- 118	51 -- 63	75 -- 30
4 --- 720	28 -- 113	52 -- 62	76 -- 29
5 --- 630	29 -- 107	53 -- 60	77 -- 27
6 --- 540	30 -- 101	54 -- 59	78 -- 26
7 --- 450	31 -- 96	55 -- 58	79 -- 24
8 --- 360	32 -- 90	56 -- 56	80 -- 23
9 --- 338	33 -- 89	57 -- 55	81 -- 22
10 -- 315	34 -- 87	58 -- 53	82 -- 20
11 -- 293	35 -- 86	59 -- 52	83 -- 19
12 -- 270	36 -- 84	60 -- 51	84 -- 18
13 -- 248	37 -- 83	61 -- 49	85 -- 16
14 -- 225	38 -- 82	62 -- 48	86 -- 15
15 -- 203	39 -- 80	63 -- 46	87 -- 13
16 -- 180	40 -- 79	64 -- 45	88 -- 12
17 -- 174	41 -- 77	65 -- 44	89 -- 11
18 -- 169	42 -- 76	66 -- 42	90 -- 9
19 -- 163	43 -- 75	67 -- 41	91 -- 8
20 -- 158	44 -- 73	68 -- 40	92 -- 7
21 -- 152	45 -- 72	69 -- 38	93 -- 5
22 -- 146	46 -- 70	70 -- 37	94 -- 4
23 -- 141	47 -- 69	71 -- 35	95 -- 2
24 -- 135	48 -- 68	72 -- 34	96 -- 1
Usually the average number of players is 50. So if only 50 players added their draws this means that the player who will be the last is awarded 65 points !
This doen't make sense.

So, I suggest that the last 5 positions are awarded points of the last 5 positions whatever the number of players.
Or any other sugestions if you agreed with me about the idea.
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

None ?!!!
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Two issues came up while I was managing Basel that I think are worth revisiting

1) Replacing seeded players after they withdraw (instead of being stuck with an LL): Currently not allowed, I think it should be.

2) Tie-break system: Currently favors players who predict later rounds more correctly. Some have argued it would be better to prioritize early round matches as some think they are harder to predict.

I agree Hazem that perhaps the scoring system needs to be changed. However, only penalizing the bottom 5 seems harsh to me. Basically as I understand your proposal, if I finish 6th worst I might get 60 points but 5th worst would only get 5 points? That seems unfair.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreak4coffee View Post
1) Replacing seeded players after they withdraw (instead of being stuck with an LL): Currently not allowed, I think it should be.
This is allowed. What is not allowed is replacing draws when unseeded players withdraw.
I suggest that it should be allowed to replace whatever the cause even if no players withdraw as long as it happens before the start of the main draw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreak4coffee View Post
2) Tie-break system: Currently favors players who predict later rounds more correctly. Some have argued it would be better to prioritize early round matches as some think they are harder to predict.
But early round is more lucky than the later. Some of your correct early picks may be a qualifier 1 or 2 who play against each other & not set before the main draw.

I think the current Tie-Break system is somewhat fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreak4coffee View Post
I agree Hazem that perhaps the scoring system needs to be changed. However, only penalizing the bottom 5 seems harsh to me. Basically as I understand your proposal, if I finish 6th worst I might get 60 points but 5th worst would only get 5 points? That seems unfair.
You are right. But you agree with me about the main idea.
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:16 AM   #6
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

About the ranking points I think the only problem is the Grand Slam ones. When I made them originally I was hoping we'd have more players.
I just checked the number of players at the Slams this year and it's:
Australia - 68
RG - 62
Wimbledon - 57
US - 61

What I'll do is I'll cut the spots from 96 to probably around 70 so everyone who plays will still get at least some points. If we happen to get more players next year we can always extend the ranking points again.

About the LL situation, I don't have a problem with replacing unseeded players. Just see what other people have to say about it. I still think we should definitely keep the rule about only replacing before any matches have started though.
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_s View Post
About the ranking points I think the only problem is the Grand Slam ones. When I made them originally I was hoping we'd have more players.
I just checked the number of players at the Slams this year and it's:
Australia - 68
RG - 62
Wimbledon - 57
US - 61

What I'll do is I'll cut the spots from 96 to probably around 70 so everyone who plays will still get at least some points. If we happen to get more players next year we can always extend the ranking points again.

About the LL situation, I don't have a problem with replacing unseeded players. Just see what other people have to say about it. I still think we should definitely keep the rule about only replacing before any matches have started though.
I agree with all of these points.

For the LL situation, people really do need the chance to make changes. In an ATP 250, if your winner withdraws before the event, you simply can't even hope to win barring a miracle. I'm not really sure its too much work for the manager either, as typically the first update isn't possible until Wednesday. But no changes once play starts (like in TT) should be strictly enforced.

On the other point concerning tie-breakers - I agree with you Hazem, was just posting comments from the Basel tournament I managed where the issued came up.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_s View Post
About the ranking points I think the only problem is the Grand Slam ones. When I made them originally I was hoping we'd have more players.
I just checked the number of players at the Slams this year and it's:
Australia - 68
RG - 62
Wimbledon - 57
US - 61

What I'll do is I'll cut the spots from 96 to probably around 70 so everyone who plays will still get at least some points. If we happen to get more players next year we can always extend the ranking points again.

About the LL situation, I don't have a problem with replacing unseeded players. Just see what other people have to say about it. I still think we should definitely keep the rule about only replacing before any matches have started though.
One idea worth considering perhaps - we keep a strict top 50 scoring system in place for all tournaments that only gives points out to the top 50. Anyone below gets 0 points (like a 1st round loss in ATP).

We seem to have around 50 people in each tournament. But the beauty of this system is that it wouldn't matter if we had 100 as the scoring would stay the same.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

I don't understand why we need a tie-break system at all.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
I don't understand why we need a tie-break system at all.
Why we dn't need ?!!!
The target of any competition ever is to break ties!
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

I agree with Snoo Foo, I think if you get the same score, then you deserve equal amount of points. As the ranking system is over the year, there is no worry about a few ties in a week.

I agree with being able to change your FITD before the first match is played, but I think this should be restricted to one change per tournament, otherwise it will be hell for the managers.

I also agree with the ideas of the points system. But I do think that the scale should slide... so perhaps a set formula in percentage form (of the first place) for each position after first place, scaling to 0.5% for last place. Perhaps use the top 50 idea, but have if less than 20 players, scale A, 20-30 players, scale B, 30-40 players, scale C and over 40 players, full scale D to 50 places.

I'd like to see a consistent format for FITD picks, so that every week, it doesn't matter which manager is managing, if everyone gets used to posting the correct format, then the game will be run more smoothly. Perhaps this will also need a consistent format for draws. (Sometimes I find it strange that a manager will ask for no first names, countries, seedings or rankings... yet that's how they post the draw).
Cheers
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Well how the tiebreak came about was that sometimes up to 5 or even more people would be tied in first place and then the ranking points had to be averaged out between all the players. I just think people like it more when there's a clear winner for a tournament rather than ties of many people. Obviously ties are still possible with this method but it sure helps. There might be a better option out there though.

Here's the updated Grand Slam points after the changes I made:

Code:
Grand Slam (128)
1 -- 2000	19 -- 163	37 -- 80	55 -- 44
2 -- 1200	20 -- 158	38 -- 78	56 -- 42
3 --- 960	21 -- 152	39 -- 76	57 -- 40
4 --- 720	22 -- 146	40 -- 74	58 -- 38
5 --- 630	23 -- 141	41 -- 72	59 -- 36
6 --- 540	24 -- 135	42 -- 70	60 -- 34
7 --- 450	25 -- 129	43 -- 68	61 -- 32
8 --- 360	26 -- 124	44 -- 66	62 -- 30
9 --- 338	27 -- 118	45 -- 64	63 -- 28
10 -- 315	28 -- 113	46 -- 62	64 -- 26
11 -- 293	29 -- 107	47 -- 60	65 -- 24
12 -- 270	30 -- 101	48 -- 58	66 -- 22
13 -- 248	31 -- 96	49 -- 56	67 -- 20
14 -- 225	32 -- 90	50 -- 54	68 -- 18
15 -- 203	33 -- 88	51 -- 52	69 -- 16
16 -- 180	34 -- 86	52 -- 50	70 -- 14
17 -- 174	35 -- 84	53 -- 48	71 -- 12
18 -- 169	36 -- 82	54 -- 46	72 -- 10
I checked the GS points ATP uses and they give 10 pts to first round losers so I just made the points go to 10 as well.

and I'll try to get the 2011 managers thread up soon.
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_s View Post
and I'll try to get the 2011 managers thread up soon.
Waiting ...
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Rank : 25 (H : 10 29 Nov 10)
W: Rotterdam 10
F : Toronto 10
SF : Memphis 10 - Indian Wells10 - Halle 10 - Cincinnati 10
QF : Hamburg 10 - Shanghai 10 - WTF 10 (7th)
Pick-A-Winner (PAW) : (As of 23 May 11)
Rank : 51 (H : 3321 Mar 11)
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Old 01-01-2011, 06:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

I've approved editing the rule of replacing draws in my tournaments.
It will be nice if it became generalized for all the managers.

Before :
4) If a player withdraws after you have made your prediction, you MAY ONLY alter your pick if the withdrawing player was seeded. However, if the player who withdrew is not a seed, you may not replace.
Unless a seeded player withdraws, you are not allowed to change picks after the first post.
If you are changing picks due to the withdrawal of a seed, you must post your picks in a new post. No editing posts under any circumstances.


After :
4) Every player can replace his/her draw only once per tournament whatever the reason of replacement.
If you are changing picks, you must post your picks in a new post. No editing posts under any circumstances.
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Fill-In-The-Draw (FITD) : (As of 16 May 11)
Rank : 25 (H : 10 29 Nov 10)
W: Rotterdam 10
F : Toronto 10
SF : Memphis 10 - Indian Wells10 - Halle 10 - Cincinnati 10
QF : Hamburg 10 - Shanghai 10 - WTF 10 (7th)
Pick-A-Winner (PAW) : (As of 23 May 11)
Rank : 51 (H : 3321 Mar 11)
W: Moscow 10 - Dubai 11
F: Casablanca 10
QF : Rotterdam 10 - Marsellie 10 - Miami 10
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Old 01-01-2011, 06:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2011 FITD changes

good change
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