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Old 02-28-2011, 08:00 PM   #136
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Default Re: Dc 2011

God, I'm really looking forward to this tie!
Looks to me as if Forget is still struggling to justify to himself his choice of player for the final rubber last year, and if I was Gilles, I'd be sticking the knife in too. But then subtlety has never been my strong point either
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:37 PM   #137
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Originally Posted by soulage View Post
I just read the all interview and it's very negativ it's as if all the problems from years were ejected now. He's very lucid on some points but on others he's too much I'm wondering how things are with guys like Llodra who was not already his best friends
Seriously "Mika" can be an arse sometimes, he badmouthed Gasquet because he was not motivated enough to sit all week-end watching the others play if he was in the same position he wouldn't even come in the first place, but others should be happy to watch him play, and by the way, lose in horrible fashion, thanks to his limited game plan.
Simon must be speaking of Monfils :retard: who acts like a star while being a vulgar top 20 player who has won the pityful total of 3 titles in his career. And Tsonga the dumbass who is making shit since one year, and pretends to be the equal of Federer or Nadal if he was not injured. Besides a few fanatics nobody takes this guy seriously, they win nothing, they are ridiculed in GS and act like hollywood stars.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:41 PM   #138
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Originally Posted by Schu View Post
can you think of two games more different than Forget's and SImon's (except maybe MOnfil's) guess that's why he and Llodra get along.
Noah had a more offensive game than Forget (Forget had two major weapons : his serve and a heavy spinned forehand quite "moonballing" in a way) yet Noah took the young Santoro who was all a pusher in that time in his team.

Noah has an opened mind. Forget always sounds like a very closed and simple mind everytime I listen to him.

I can't be suspect of liking Simon's or Monfils's style but I have more flexibility when I analyse and comment their kind of game than what I listen from him on TV.

it's always the simple alternative "going to the net or defending"

Well I thought it was only for "vulgarizing" on TV but now hear what Simon says : "Forget was an attacking player then can't understand me"

And I remember when he asked Mathieu "to play moonballing like Corretja" against Youzhny

Come on he's a professional technician : should be able to analyze and help any kind of game

From what I can hear on French TV it seems he is still stuck up in the 90s, his references are always there, talking of Edberg and Muster ... a few years ago Nadal was just another Muster in his eyes

I remember when he called Melzer a "clay specialist" because he had played the semifinals in RG : unbelievable has he really never seen Melzer play outside of Roland-Garros ?
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:18 PM   #139
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
Some fans should be happy, there'll be a new scapegoat if they lose this tie .
The sad thing is that it's a team, there should not have to be a scapegoat, but there always is thanks to petty fans and the media.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:26 AM   #140
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Default Re: Dc 2011

while i do believe each player and their coach are entitled to their own opinions and criticisms, it's not exactly productive to voice it to the media, i mean, what's that going to do, it's not like they're going to stage a protest and fire forget...nor are they going to just pluck simon out of the team to make things ok. the truth of the matter is, i guess it's just been something that has been going on for a while, and i believe it is important for the coach to be able to accept these comments and see if there needs to be a change in how he approaches keeping his group together. i do believe, in my watching of davis cup matches, and observing him courtside at tournaments, forget does have a little bit of a superiority complex. perhaps the other guys have picked up on that, and realise that a successful way of getting him to be less imposing is to be successful enough throughout the year, and use that to get some weighting in discussions about how the players can play their game.

i agree, it can be difficult always to be seen as the "replacement" to the favourite, but hey, that's just how the world of professional sports is....when you are transiently in that position, whether it be because the favourites are injured or refuse to play, you have to make the most of it. making non-constructive comments to the press is probably not my preferred means of making myself known as "the leader" in a team....but hey, that's just little ol' me! not only does it prove that there is discord with the coach, it also can lead to further distancing with other team members, and if simon is already commenting on the fact that people just do whatever they want, when they want, it's not exactly going to make them wake up and think, "yeah, let's do some group bonding!"

furthermore, it confirms to their opponents that all they need to do is exploit this situation, and they've already won the tie.

perhaps it is also because there may be an overwhelming sense in the camp that the challenge against Austria is great, and the likelihood of them winning is slim, so venting these comments out may set the media and public's expectations of what the results will be at a lower bar.....i guess at the end of the day we cannot comment for sure what simon's intention was for the remarks he made, but i think it definitely has created an even bigger mountain for les bleus to climb in vienna!

after watching simon play and fight during his matches in the australian swing this year, i can tell he does think a lot about his matches, he analyses the play...albeit after the match sometimes. so i do understand when he says he is a reactive player rather than the aggressor. being reactive has its pros, in the sense that you have the insight to learn from what has happened, and create an appropriate response. however, the key is to be able to apply this reaction into your gameplan in future, and flip it into a more ASSERTIVE position....even if you aren't always the aggressor, you need to be on the appropriate occasions in order to win.

at the end of the day, because these people are in the public eye, what may be said in an otherwise "normal" conversation just ends up blared out for all to read and hear. i think it's a normal response if you are frustrated, but it is also BECAUSE they are in the limelight, they need to consider what the overall commotion that their words may create before saying them. if it's going to mean a positive change will occur, like when domenech got his @ss kicked in disgrace after world cup, and blanc then chose a lot of alternative, promising and YOUNG players to make the french national team afterwards, then by all means, use the media for the furore it can create. but if it's going to be all negative, then it's probably not worth it.

and as for the divas on the team - remember, these are guys in their early/mid 20s who probably DON'T live an average dude's life, and are cheered and gawked at in awe whenever they are on the court, of COURSE they're going to be spoilt and diva like if they have the opportunity to. the only difference in them and those who seem to be more grounded, is just the company they hang with.

alrighty, enough dissection of the coupe davis press from me.....i hope they'll show some of the matches this weekend here in Australia

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Old 03-01-2011, 05:03 AM   #141
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Default Re: Dc 2011

I was wrong, seems like we don't need to wait for a loss, Gilles is already the scapegoat
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:10 AM   #142
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Default Re: Dc 2011

While I think it is a mistake to lash out against Forget in public, I always felt that Forget had troubles with the younger guys, like Richard, Gael and Gilles, though for very different reasons. We don't have to talk about Tsonga in this respect, as he hardly played a DC-tie. It was obvious that Llodra was Forget's darling last year and that sending him against Troicki was a mistake. However, given Troicki's performance in the final match, I doubt that Gilles would have won against him, Richard neither.

It is the following coments from Gilles which I really despise.


"A Lyon, c'était à moi d'y aller. J'avais besoin de cette victoire."
In Lyon, it was my turn. I needed that win.

To remember: It was the tie against Argentina in September on a fast surface and Forget chose Llodra who won his match against Monaco. At that time, Gilles was 41, Richard 29 and Llodra 30. At this point it was perfectly right to chose Llodra over SImon, given the way Llodra had played at the US Open just days before and the surfcae. And if not Llodra, then Richard would also have been a justified candidate.

"Si je gagne, ça nous fait une option de plus pour la finale et on aurait arrêter de blablater sur mon “zéro victoire” en Coupe Davis."
If I win (he still speaks about the match against Monaco) it will give us another option for the final, and one would have stopped to talk about "zero victoties" in DC.

Well, this really puts me off. Simon aks for nothing less than the right to improve his negative record in DC. Who does he think he is? The first objective is to win the tie, sorry Gilles, your bad record in DC is not the main issue. And how this would have affected him for the final three months later on a totally different surface, also remains a mystery.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:02 AM   #143
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Originally Posted by Puschkin View Post
It is the following coments from Gilles which I really despise.


"A Lyon, c'était à moi d'y aller. J'avais besoin de cette victoire."
In Lyon, it was my turn. I needed that win.

To remember: It was the tie against Argentina in September on a fast surface and Forget chose Llodra who won his match against Monaco. At that time, Gilles was 41, Richard 29 and Llodra 30. At this point it was perfectly right to chose Llodra over SImon, given the way Llodra had played at the US Open just days before and the surfcae. And if not Llodra, then Richard would also have been a justified candidate.

"Si je gagne, ça nous fait une option de plus pour la finale et on aurait arrêter de blablater sur mon “zéro victoire” en Coupe Davis."
If I win (he still speaks about the match against Monaco) it will give us another option for the final, and one would have stopped to talk about "zero victoties" in DC.

Well, this really puts me off. Simon aks for nothing less than the right to improve his negative record in DC. Who does he think he is? The first objective is to win the tie, sorry Gilles, your bad record in DC is not the main issue. And how this would have affected him for the final three months later on a totally different surface, also remains a mystery.
Funny that you and me actually has discussed this before, in PM. Then I said: "Forget has no vision, he could build up the musketeers slowly but he didn't, he wouldn't. Having a vision means one's willing to forego short-term immediate success in order to plan for a longer term success in the future..." And you agreed with me wholeheartedly then. And now you think that Forget was right to care about the immediate tasks in front of him, that means to send the highest rank player available... Aren't you the one who always say Forget is stupid to blindly follows ranking? Contradict much? When it suits you then to criticize Forget, you thought he should have been more foresightful on growing the Musketeers (or by Musketeers, you only mean Richard?), and now you think Forget was right to care for the immediate task and Gilles was selfish to want to be given a chance.

So Gilles is selfish for wanting to play. If he is confident that he can win, why shouldn't he want to win? In his eyes, he will win against Monaco, he had never lost to Monaco in 3 tries, it is not like he's intending to endanger the team. It would be bad faith if he isn't confident of winning but still want to play. But I think if he's still thinking that he's in bad form and couldn't have win, he wouldn't have said this now.

Forget has not let Gilles played at any match when Gilles has a chance to win, and then he put him in match that he knows he wouldn't win. At the end, the 5th tie of final, Forget then felt he has no choice but to choose Mika bcos he thought that Gilles hasn't won a match so he couldn't trust him. As I had suggested and you agreed before, if he has any foresight, he should have in the course of the year to help Gilles win a match, if that had happened, he would had one more player that had experienced winning, therefore available for him to choose from. That's the least a team leader should have done, grow his players for the reason that it will give him more options at critical moments, that's what a visionary leader would have done.

And now no one is available for this tie and you have 2 possible single players in Gilles and Jeremy that has never win a DC match as yet and suddenly has to be the #1 and #2 single players of the team. Does it seem like Forget has been brilliant in preparing his players for that important task? To me, it seems like he forgot to save for the rainy day.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:18 AM   #144
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
Aren't you the one who always say Forget is stupid to blindly follows ranking?
Yep, I say that, but I also say, Forget should take into account current form, surface and H/H if they are relevant (a H/H of 1-0 five years ago is not relevant) and he was right to put Llodra against Monaco. And he was wrong to put Llodra against Troicki.

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So Gilles is selfish for wanting to play.
Yes and no spin you try to put on it can change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
Forget has not let Gilles played at any match when Gilles has a chance to win, and then he put him in match that he knows he wouldn't win.
That sounded quite different at the time:
http://www.welovetennis.fr/coupe-dav...nse-a-djokovic

Si je joue, a priori, ce sera en numéro 2, donc contre Novak Djokovic, le vendredi, et c'est pour ça que je suis là. Je me prépare donc dans mon jeu pour affronter Djokovic. Je repense à ce que j'ai déjà fait contre lui, je travaille les coups qui ont pu le gêner

If I play, a priori, it will be as r 2, so against Djokovic on Friday, it is because of that that I am there. I prepare my game to play against Djokovic, I rethink what I have already done against him, I work on the stokes which have disturbed him."

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
I was wrong, seems like we don't need to wait for a loss, Gilles is already the scapegoat
I never said that. I still think that France can win the tie, and if they lose it, it won't be due to Simon, but due to an exceptional Jürgen, if he really wins all three matches, something one will have to give him credit for.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:57 AM   #145
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Yes and no spin you try to put on it can change that.
Yes, I won't change your mind, and what you think does not mean it is the truth. Like I think Richard chickened out on this tie and probably not the only one here who thought that, but I'm sure it doesn't mean what I think is the truth.

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Originally Posted by Puschkin View Post
That sounded quite different at the time:
http://www.welovetennis.fr/coupe-dav...nse-a-djokovic

If I play, a priori, it will be as r 2, so against Djokovic on Friday, it is because of that that I am there. I prepare my game to play against Djokovic, I rethink what I have already done against him, I work on the stokes which have disturbed him."
Yes, that's what Gilles' told himself and the world that. And you believed what Gilles said because? Gilles lost 6 consecutive times to Nole before that meeting. Oh, but it didn't mean anything. Eventhough you are sure that Gilles would have lost to the in-form Troicki who Gilles had beaten 4 consecutive times without losing a set, but you weren't sure that he would have lost to the very in-form Nole who he had lost to the last 6 times.

Gilles couldn't possibly come out and said he has no chance to win before he played Nole, could he?


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I never said that. I still think that France can win the tie, and if they lose it, it won't be due to Simon, but due to an exceptional Jürgen, if he really wins all three matches, something one will have to give him credit for.
I had not accused you of that just yet, so don't act like a guilty party already .
It is interesting that you are the only one who's been so confident that France will win.

And you dodged my saying that you used to agree with me that Forget should have tried harder to help the Musketeers to grow and suddenly changed your mind to agree with Forget that he shouldn't bother, and was right to concentrate on the immediate task at hand. But that's okay, it is not easy to explain away why you are so fickle.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:53 AM   #146
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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Originally Posted by Puschkin View Post
I always felt that Forget had troubles with the younger guys, like Richard, Gael and Gilles, though for very different reasons. We don't have to talk about Tsonga in this respect, as he hardly played a DC-tie.
I heard that Tsonga was sometimes irritated about Forget in the beginning, disliking his "authority".

Some reactions in "l'Equipe", esp Grosjean's one which is quite balanced as often with him :

http://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/breves2...e-du-bien.html

nothing extraordinary :
- lack of communication and misunderstanding (but Grosjean says it's good that Simon had talked about it with Forget before)
- esp lack of confidence and misunderstanding between Forget and the new generation

Grosjean also says that his generation always respected the rules imposed by Forget to have dinner together and so on ... and says that implicitly, Simon also criticizes some other players (esp Monfils, even if he doesn't name him).
Leconte says that in his time the relations inside the team were even worse
Dominguez clearly implies that "Forget is used and fragilised"

They say that "it's good that something's moving" but it rather sounds as a "coué method"
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:44 AM   #147
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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It is interesting that you are the only one who's been so confident that France will win.
I am not saying they will win, but that their chances are still there. The results of the Austrian Nr 2 - whoever it will be - are outright dreadful in 2011. And I keep repeating that Melzer will have to play and win three matches, likely with a doubles partner who will be 37 (!) in April. But this argument has never been taken up, most of the French posters here just prefer to whine about what they percieve as a misery.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:17 AM   #148
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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I am not saying they will win, but that their chances are still there. The results of the Austrian Nr 2 - whoever it will be - are outright dreadful in 2011. And I keep repeating that Melzer will have to play and win three matches, likely with a doubles partner who will be 37 (!) in April. But this argument has never been taken up, most of the French posters here just prefer to whine about what they percieve as a misery.
How is Koellerer by the way as you seem to be Austrian ?

depression, other problem ? he has not played for very long now.

With him on top, the Austrian number 2 would definitely have been more frightening.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:02 PM   #149
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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How is Koellerer by the way as you seem to be Austrian ?

depression, other problem ? he has not played for very long now.
wrist operation in November, and a finger problem right thereafter. In case you speak German: http://www.laola1.at/128+M56807aee934.html
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:33 PM   #150
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Default Re: Dc 2011

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How is Koellerer by the way as you seem to be Austrian ?

depression, other problem ? he has not played for very long now.

With him on top, the Austrian number 2 would definitely have been more frightening.
I would have say funny not frightening Haider-Maurer was looking more tough but he's not here.

Bennet, Jeremy or Mika even in their average form can beat easily Koubek or Fisher if they can't they are injured I mean Koubek or Fisher are awful this year so this two points are for us. I was doubtful about doubles before Marseille and Dubai but we have seen that Bennet and Jeremy can make a good team with llodra. I don't understand why it's Kwnole and not Marach or Peya because Knowle is like Fisher and Koubek this year and coming back from injury, strange choice We should win 3-1 or 3-2 if Melzer is in very good shape.
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