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Old 09-13-2004, 04:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in all seriousness, though, I think Brad and Andy's relationship has both pros and cons. It's nice that he has someone who cares so much and will pretty much do anything for him out on the road. I'm sure that's comforting for Andy and when he has no family or whatever out with him, I'm sure that can be a help. But the other edge of that sword is that Brad probably is not tough enough on him.

He did look especially bad the other night, though. As did Andy's agent (hmm I wonder why?).. but when you think about it... I think this could be one of his more devestating losses of his career. This was a match where first of all, he came out so flat and should never even have been in a 5th set ANYWAY, but then he comes back, plays 2 sets where has a total of THREE unforced errors, has PimPim right where he should've had him, and then he falls flat again when there's no time left to recover. It's pretty bad. So it doesn't shock me that Brad looked pretty bad. It was a really BAD loss.

It was the Jensen brothers, Danielle
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunk18bsb
It was the Jensen brothers, Danielle
ahh, thanks, lol, sorry but i started cracking up when i saw that picture cuz i though there was no way in hell that anyone other than andy would put on that shirt, and then there it was in front of me...TWO of them

and yeah i agree with you about andy and brad's relationship. and probably thinks he's the best thing in the world, and he is for certain things, especially just a sort of companion when he doesnt have any frineds or family with him or whatnot. but i do think that sometimes brad should be a little tougher on him. but im no coach, and i really cant put my finger on exactly what andy needs, other than the obvious mental thing and the fact that he needs some patience.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Well, that....... and to not get all nervous and tight at 4-5 in the fifth set.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:37 AM   #19
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

but see, the nervous and tight at 4-5 doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he was in the 5th anyway. He came out totally flat in the beginning of the match, he never should've been in a 5th set anyway IMO. Look what Lleyton did to PimPim, he got him to that 4-5 or 5-6 game and put the pressure on and his lack of experience showed through and Lleyton could break. But Andy threw two games in those first two sets, one on a double fault and the other in the second where he had been up 40-0, he never gave himself the opportunity to get PimPim in that pressurized situation. To me that's an even bigger problem than the 4-5 game.

It's funny, I knew he was going to drop serve in that game. I turned off the tv and went in the other room and put something else on that TV. You could tell he got all jumpy in that 5th set and was uncomfortable. Yea, PimPim played well, but IMO this was a match that Andy lost, more than once throughout it. And that's why I think some of us have this "ok what is going on with Andy" feeling, because someone like him and in his position and with all he's been through and considering he was playing at the USO where he had the crowd and he had all those other intangibles, it's real worrisome that he still got nervous and tight like that.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Deb, there's nothing new in you knowing Andy's going to lose.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:43 AM   #21
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

And, anyway it was a light hearted comment from me.

Obviously, I'm not as upset about the loss as some of you because Pim Pim won. Had it been say......... Nadal.... I might have been upset too.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

*sigh* But I'd rather be wrong

It's not the sole fact that Andy lost that's problematic for me (and I would suspect others as well)...it really has no relevance for me WHO he lost to. It's how he lost and the fact that it was at the USO Where he had always played so well and had apparently been able to overcome being a little off in his game before and had been able to pull himself out of tight spots and all that stuff, it just seems indicative of something going on.

You can be happy for PimPim but still worry a little about Andy at the same time
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Oct-June -he looked extremely heavy-footed & off-balanced.
He was negative & said he didn't have much talent.
Did he expect to win with no new tennis techniques?

He needs to suppress instant gratification
(practice instead of partying)
He needs to keep things simple & think like a teenager who wants to learn.


Aus Open- He & Gilbert had NO idea about the high ball bounce, so Safin took advantage of his ignorance. McEnroe bragged that Andy would beat "Mental Midget."
Gilbert was already thinking about the semifinal.
San Jose- Played average against Mardy in a messy tiebreak
(Cheerleader PMac pretended it was freaking great)
Memphis- Served too hard, hurt his back & made a fool of himself. Nobody asked him to kiss everyone.
Scottsdale- Had no strength to play a long match, missed volleys 'cuz he couldn't move, but showed up to earn a few points. Gave Spadea a desperately-needed gift.
Davis Cup 04 - only cared about serving hard to please the crowd & pretended he was healthy & in good form. ESPN was busy showing the Bryans & forgot Andy's match. (made Andy play at 9 p.m. 'cuz there was no roof to shield the stadium)
Indian Wells- Andy joked at the net & thought it was ok to lose to his hero Henman. Passively stood still while he had match point, carelessly kick served to Tim's forehand, pushed overhead over the baseline & collapsed.
Houston- a tournament he should've forgotten long ago.
Then again, it takes years to wake up after 2 Mattresses squished him.
JUNE-JULY - I had amnesia here.
Did he choke & tank all the matches? That's good for his self-esteem!
Toronto-
He couldn't run & had a bad back because he served too fast & whined that he was annoyed about losing. No, Andy, you were annoying. You hit the ball really high & short in the court at Toronto. Congrats, you lost 7/8 matches to God.

Cincinnati- it was a pleasure to lose 'cuz he smiled after losing! He stood 4 feet back & pounded the ball out when he played Agassi. I guess he was so glad to admire his hero. Is there a rhyme or reason when Andy shows up.

Olympics- Andy clowned around with a wrestler.
Andy didn't think dragging on the Haas match was bad before he faced Gonzo!!! Did u think again before you celebrated & lost a 3-0 lead, Andy!!
Then, he got his eyes glued to Mardy's matches like a loyal friend with no desire to defend his U.S. Open title!!

His gave less than 70% effort
When u see him make a ridiculous fart joke in the middle of a serious match, it proves
he doesn't want to put his name in tennis history.


If u saw Hewitt & Fed, they had slow, flat serves, kept running & dipped the ball really low so they could hit quick winners.
Andy did none of these & it's worse that he is physically & emotionally on planet Mars. He can't win & gain respect from other players when he tells them he's falling apart. There's no hope without change.

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Old 09-13-2004, 02:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

This was a good year for Andy. Everyone is blocking out the fact that Andy made the wimbly final and played Federer the best anyone has all year(while Federer was playing his best game). All in all, I think it's good that he didn't win a slam, last year it was all about Andy. He won all those masters, had the el anouyi match in aus, semis at wimbly, won USO and became no1. This year it's about Roger, and all the amazing things he's done. Roger being at the top should help to take the spot-light off Andy. I really think what will we see in the future is an Andy that can play alot more loose because not as much is expected from him.
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Thanks for making this thread Tangy, great for discussion.

1) Federer and Henman

We all know of God's abilities, but what can Andy do more of? The first set of Wimby was a perfect example of what he has to do to beat Federer, but it is really tough to keep that level up throughout a whole match. Andy needs to take time away from him. He needs to keep the offense, and he needs to hold serve.

Henman - He's a S&V player. We all know Andy has trouble with them. So Andy, take away his game. Go into the net yourself. Or play your game, and keep him back. Take the offense. Improve those volleys and backhand passes.

2) Brad and Andy

One thing I DO NOT like about Brad is how 'buddy buddy' he is with Andy. Don't get me wrong, I love their great relationship, but Brad needs to kick Andy in the ass harder sometimes. Don't tell him to bomb his serve as hard as he can every match, sometimes placement and spins are the answer. It depends on the opponent.

3) Breakdowns :retard:

I don't know if its between the ears, or if the opponents too tough, but Andy's 5 set record sucks this year. He isn't taking the offense, he's double-faulting at really bad times, and he's getting distracted by his own emotions. Being emotional on the court is fine, but when it costs you matches, time to stop, asshole.

4) Clay

Why doesn't Andy think he can play on this shit? It isn't that tough. He has improved footwork/speed. He is lighter and moving better. He needs to get his backhand consistently better, and be more consistant allover, he seems to make the errors in long rallies, and thats what clay brings, long points. He should NOT have lost that match to Mutis His draw was perfect to get to at least the R of 16. He had a meltdown, he didn't think he could win the 5th set. Please, Andy, let me teach you how to play on this, its my favorite surface

5) The Summer Season

All in all it wasn't a bad hardcourt season, except the Olympics. Won Indy, finals in Toronto, Semis in Cincy, Quarters in the USO ( What is this, a pattern?)

Next year will be a positive. Andy doesn't have HALF the shitload of points Federer has to defend Andy will get his USO back. He wants it. Bad.
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennay
Andy will get his USO back. He wants it. Bad.
He wanted it BAD this year... I think that might be part of the problem. Andy seems to do better when he doesn't put as much pressure ON HIMSELF. He seems to be able to deal with the press and all that but when it comes down to him really wanting it for himself, it's when he has the most problems. Look at some of his losses this year - Olympics, USO, RG and Toronto, I'll pick those four - he really wanted the Olympics and USO BADLY so no need to explain those and I believe he really wanted to do better at the French this year. I threw Toronto in there b/c I think he REALLY REALLY wanted to beat Federer that time, being right after Wimby and being back on his turf, if you will. In those four matches he didn't play particularly well at all. It was his worst showing against Roger, he barely made it through Haas at the Olympics then had a bad loss, the USO he came out totally flat after playing 4 amazing matches, and at RG well we know what happened there, he turned into super-:retard:.

Then look at tourneys where he didn't have any reason to put pressure on himself - Miami, Queens, Wimby... he did much better. Maybe I'm just making this up but it makes too much sense for me to abandon.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Everyone, thanks for your rants I find them cathartic.

Does anyone plan on reading Brad's new book, "I've Got Your Back"? I read the first one, "Winning Ugly", it was an interesting read on his tennis insights. This second one sounds more intriguing to me because it'll be about him coaching Andre and Andy.

Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly


Gilbert (Winning Ugly) has enjoyed a successful career as a tennis coach, including coaching the last two U.S. men who ended a year ranked number one in the world, Andre Agassi and Andy Roddick (both of whom provide a foreword), and in this book he tells how he did it: intense loyalty, careful listening, meticulous scouting and doing whatever it took to ensure his player arrived at each match mentally focused on winning. Although Gilbert is considered an excellent technical coach, there is little mention of strokes, grips or tennis strategy in the book. It is an entertaining, behind-the-scenes look at the preparation for a professional tennis match, with only brief attention paid to the match itself and its aftermath. He unsuccessfully tries to stretch the lessons to apply to other sports and business management: full time dedication to bringing a temperamental individual star to peak competitive performance is not transferable to a team sport or a business executive. Moreover, in tennis, the player selects and pays the coach, which makes the relationship different from that of a boss. The book will appeal to tennis fans as an insider's account of the tour, and it will deepen their appreciation for the game that takes place off-court.


Book Description
Brad Gilbert, the top tennis coach in America, has guided two of the nation’s hottest players — first Andre Agassi and now Andy Roddick — to the coveted number 1 ranking in the world. And he did it with a unique style that can teach the rest of us everything we need to know about coaching winners—not just on the court, but in the office, classroom, or any other leadership situation.

"Show me a coach," says Gilbert, "who doesn’t listen — really listen — and I’ll show you a probable loser. Show me a coach who domineers and demeans, who manages through fear, and I’ll show you an accident waiting to happen. Show me a coach who doesn’t think it’s just as important to empower the lowliest scrub on the team as it is to cater to the star, and I’ll show you a real short-timer."

When the world’s best players compete, the slightest advantage (or problem) can make all the difference. That’s why Gilbert always goes the extra mile and why he urges every boss to do the same. Whether it’s standing on the other side of the net feeding ball after ball, or endless hours scouting the competition, or just picking up breakfast in the morning, it all counts in building a trusting relationship. Just knowing that their coach is looking out for them unconditionally gives Gilbert’s players an unbeatable edge.

I’ve Got Your Back is filled with insider stories about the pressure- filled world of Grand Slam tennis. From the drama of the U.S. Open and Wimbledon to private moments on the practice court, Gilbert shares what really happens when an already great performer is determined to reach his absolute personal best.

Tennis fans already know Gilbert as the poker-faced guy in the stands with the wrap-around shades and the five o’clock shadow. But they will be surprised to learn that behind the tough guy image is a smart, funny, passionate coach who is intensely competitive yet unflaggingly optimistic and supportive. He’s a role model for anyone who is trying to inspire others to greatness.
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Gilbert has shown that he can make a short-term mental improvement to some of Roddick's shots by telling him to keep it simple on his returns and backhand, and that worked last year; this year has demonstrated that he actually needs long-term technical and tactical adjustments to improve his game, rather than his coach predicting that "The Kid" will serve at 160mph in the future. The really relevant GS losses on hardcourt, his best surface, were to players who basically overpowered him and beat him at his own game - OK, so Safin is a far more well-rounded player at the moment than Roddick, but Johansson is basically Andy circa 2001/02 with the ineffective backhand and sluggish movement that Roddick had back then.

For a start, his court positioning could improve an awful lot, both on returns and in rallies. His real problem under Benhabiles was standing too close to the line for returns and then retreating behind the baseline for the rest of the point, but he has to find a reasonable balance. Standing in front of the back fence and dumping a weak second serve return into the net that causes him to shout "Oh my God" and throw his racket in the air is not an acceptable alternative. Equally, while he has just about the biggest forehand in the game besides Gonzalez, it's possible to hit the ball hard without actually being aggressive; smacking the hell out of it when you're camped way behind the baseline is not going to be as effective as someone hitting a reasonably hard forehand well inside the baseline and taking the time away from their opponent, e.g. Federer or Henman.

I say all this, yet his game is still far improved from what it was a year ago, as demonstrated in his straight-sets routining of the likes of Nadal, Canas, Robredo etc. But I don't think anyone expects Robredo to be challenging for Slams in the future, and Nadal won't outside clay unless he develops a halfway decent serve. There are plenty of young players developing in the Johansson mould, one-dimensional though it may be.

It was noticeable that Roddick hardly serve-volleyed at all (ever?) in that Johansson match, which would have forced the big man to go on the defensive and stretch for his shots instead of having time to set up for them and unwind. Johansson himself said after his semifinal loss that Hewitt got a lot of balls back very low making it difficult for him to bend down and get much pace on his shots. Hewitt returned better as you'd expect, but apart from his usual amazing defensive gets he also hit a couple of surprisingly aggressive returns at big moments, and this is what Roddick lacked against the Swede. He's become a consistent returner without necessarily being a threatening one (threatening to players with big service games, rather than the Robredos of this world).

Clay is a whole different kettle of fish - that requires some major mental improvement as well as transforming the backhand from a dependable shot into a formidable one (that goes for Federer too on slower surfaces, to a lesser extent). He's got the necessary weight of shot to hurt top players on clay, unlike Hewitt, but the consistency is sorely lacking and you end up with final sets like the ones at Rome and RG this year which were little short of embarrassing. A heavy, rain-soaked court at the latter didn't help, but Roddick's inability to put away a home player when leading by two sets to one and by a break in both the second and fourth sets was rather poor.
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Old 09-13-2004, 07:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Sjeng Schalken sucks...lol
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Old 09-13-2004, 07:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

Sjengster, that was spot-on. I wonder how much of that will Andy improve upon, there are still a lot of holes in his game and he is still # 2 in the world, just needs to believe in changing tactics, when his main one is not working. Vary the speed of the serve, he has a huge kick use it more, step into the court on his shots.

He will never solve the clay riddle.
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