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Old 05-30-2010, 01:52 PM   #121
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by acionescu View Post
Exactly. The banning message clearly shows personal issues between the moderator and the banned poster. I wish that someone from the mod team( and I'm not expecting Raginglamb, his/her way of dealing with the posters requests and inquires was clear enough for everybody these past weeks ) explain us if this is the norm on MTF

Moderation is a task made by individuals who have their own beliefes, background, etc. The unbiased moderation is a myth, just like unbiased science and journalism. We are here expected to have good sense and stick to the rules, still a lot of interpretation has place in our work. That's why is important to have a team.

We were annoyed by all the mess that happened here. A lot of posts bashing our work, intentional twist of words and facts in order to troll, etc. The message sent to the banned user (that is private and since the user is banned it shouldn't have been disclosed here) wasn't the most bureaucratic/protocolar/polite/whatever, still is not wrong, Pablo was told to stop and knew what he was doing was against the rules but he opted to keep on it. Why are mods supposed to not express emotions, do you expect robots? The message wasn't rude at all, just ironic
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:05 PM   #122
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by Zirconek View Post
The unbiased moderation is a myth, just like unbiased science and journalism.
of course, but usually the try to hide the bias rather than shove it on people's face


Quote:
Why are mods supposed to not express emotions, do you expect robots? The message wasn't rude at all, just ironic
probably RL has watched many police movies when the officer tells the criminal "I got you" in the end
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That will be the last victory of Rafa for quite some time.. With his joke mentality and pathetic game, I hope the disgusting player loses every single match next season. He's disgraceful. He should just retire. He's a joke.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:07 PM   #123
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

I've never received for example a s-i-n-g-l-e complaint for being a poor or biased mod during that year when I did my task, and also - for whatever reason - posters (even those I didn't know before) preferred to send a PM to me rather than to an admin when they had problems with being harassed or receiving an unfair in their opinion ban For the record in my opinion the ban was frequently fair and I expressed it speaking to that offender, and can't really recall a single case they would disagree (or at least they went trolling elsewhere, not to my PM box anymore). People love being treated seriously and adore transparency, this is so simple.

Maybe an unbiased moderation is not a myth, only a way of approach to your duties and willing to learn about the other backgrounds which you mention? If people volunteer to do this, they surely have time for it.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:08 PM   #124
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
Dunno if it's the norm but it has certainly happened a lot in the past. Mod Zirkonek is notorious for his personal fixations and for dealing with them via his moderating powers, he has been repeatedly asked by many posters to inhibit himself from judging reports about posters he openly dislikes and is biased about, he has refused to without any reaction from other mods.

So if it isn't the norm it's quite close.
It's you who's obsessed with me, who says things like "his moderation is a cancer to this forum". You are always talking about me, and I don't say a word about you for a long time. Obsessed too much? Many posters, who? You and prima donna? I consider a compliment you disliking me.

You make this forum worse with your posts. I can see some fun in some of your posts, but your arrogance is mostly annoying.

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A poster wishes and threatens violent dead upon another poster and the post isn't even deleted. Another poster calls "bisexual" his old foe and is banned for 6 months.

High comedy.
Nobody got 6 months for calling other bisexual. Not even ExcaliburII's first ban (1 week) was only because of that and it was explained that was based on previous happenings and his current ban was explained in banned users thread and the message was posted here, few posts above.

The old fascist tatics of twisting words and facts, that's not comedy, that's sad and dangerous.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:24 PM   #125
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

if we must simply concede that the mods are biased, gossipy, impulsive and overemotional, maybe they should at least be rotated quarterly or something to give everyone else a chance to ban and infract people they don't like and protect their friends. at least that way the biases of the powerful will be evened out.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:46 PM   #126
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

The Greeks are so smart:

In comedy, the confusion ends when everyone recognizes what has been going on, learns from it, forgives, forgets, and re-establishes his or her identity in the smoothly functioning social group (which may return to the original normality or may be setting up a better situation than the one the group started with). Comedies typically end with a group celebration, especially one associated with a betrothal or wedding, often accompanied by music and dancing. The emphasis is on the reintegration of everyone into the group, a recommitment to their shared life together.

The ending of a tragedy is quite different. Here the conflict is resolved only with the death of the main character, who usually discovers just before his death that his attempts to control the conflict and make his way through it have simply compounded his difficulties and that, therefore, to a large extent the dire situation he is in is largely of his own making. The death of the hero is not normally the very last thing in a tragedy, however, for there is commonly (especially in classical Greek tragedy) some group lament over the body of the fallen hero, a reflection upon the significance of the life which has now ended.
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:00 PM   #127
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

this style of comedy is more like waiting for godot meets weekend at bernie's.
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Old 05-30-2010, 05:44 PM   #128
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirconek View Post
Moderation is a task made by individuals who have their own beliefes, background, etc. The unbiased moderation is a myth, just like unbiased science and journalism. We are here expected to have good sense and stick to the rules, still a lot of interpretation has place in our work. That's why is important to have a team.

We were annoyed by all the mess that happened here. A lot of posts bashing our work, intentional twist of words and facts in order to troll, etc. The message sent to the banned user (that is private and since the user is banned it shouldn't have been disclosed here) wasn't the most bureaucratic/protocolar/polite/whatever, still is not wrong, Pablo was told to stop and knew what he was doing was against the rules but he opted to keep on it. Why are mods supposed to not express emotions, do you expect robots? The message wasn't rude at all, just ironic
I'm sorry Edu, but I beg to disagree. Of course that mods are human and they maybe are sometimes overwhelmed by the work they are doing but i think they should be fair in their decisions and in expressing them.
I don't see why it's more of a problem that Pablo disclosed a mod PM than the way the afordmentioned mod expressd himself. In the end Pablo was described by all of you as something like a black sheep, rebelious, unpolite,rude character and we should not expect much from him, no?
In the meantime, I really expect mods to be different, not inhuman or robots but above personal bias and I'm sorry if I had a wrong idea. If is not like that than it should be like Snoo says bellow, let's all get mods by rotation to have the chance to have personal vendettas against the ones we don't like.
The reason I got involved in this all situation I told you before: i got horribly verbally abused by a poster in a rep and the mod whom I reported said to me that and I quote "people on MTF calls themselves all kind of things on reps and if we banned people for the insults they throw each other we would left with 30% of MTF. We only ban for wishing death of posters" Then another poster gets called "bisexual" and that leads to an one week ban. And then the same poster gets quoted in a sig( with a very rude post btw) and the same poster that got banned the first time gets 6 months. I'm sorry but I really don't understand, this is looking like biased moderation to me. That's the way it is and I doubt that i can get an explanation that I could comprehend but I'm willing to listen

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Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
if we must simply concede that the mods are biased, gossipy, impulsive and overemotional, maybe they should at least be rotated quarterly or something to give everyone else a chance to ban and infract people they don't like and protect their friends. at least that way the biases of the powerful will be evened out.
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:37 PM   #129
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by JMG View Post
This behaviour by RagingLamb is not acceptable. It's about time to have some changes in the mod team.
He hands out infractions like a GP hands out antidepressants. RagingLamb goes wayyyyyy too far. Other mods are ok untill they ban me (except Carlita who is always )
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:59 PM   #130
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

I'd like to comment on the issue of Excalibur and his ban:

First, I have no personal issues with Excalibur. We have rarely interacted with each other before (he mentioned this in his previous thread as well).

So the latest ban that he received had nothing to do with any personal issues on my part. After his week-long ban Excalibur was quite adamant about violating the rules and making sure we knew about it. Near the end he even reported his own post just to throw it in our faces.

So his ban had very much to do with the way he behaved, and it was not a decision I made on my own. There was no emotional component to it.

Now, regarding people who have raised the issue of professionalism about the content of the message (e.g.):

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarecrows View Post
very professional job from Raging **** with such message
I understand why people are bothered by the content in the ban message. To be honest, I thought he would appreciate the humor in it, but in retrospect, it was perhaps not the right thing to do, and I apologize to anyone who was offended by it.

Even though being a moderator is a volunteer activity (not a profession), I think it is fair for you to expect us to behave in a more sensible way that that.

But I think it is fair for us to ask something in return as well. I have personally received a lot of bashing and insults as a moderator on this forum, and have always shown restraint.

If the standard you set for me and the rest of us when moderating is to act professionally, then please apply some standards to yourselves as well when addressing us.

We are more than happy to fix our mistakes when we make them, or to comply with requests. But it is much easier to do so when we aren't being insulted.

Thank you.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:25 PM   #131
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Old 05-30-2010, 07:42 PM   #132
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by Zirconek View Post
It's you who's obsessed with me, who says things like "his moderation is a cancer to this forum". You are always talking about me, and I don't say a word about you for a long time. Obsessed too much? Many posters, who? You and prima donna? I consider a compliment you disliking me.

You make this forum worse with your posts. I can see some fun in some of your posts, but your arrogance is mostly annoying.



Nobody got 6 months for calling other bisexual. Not even ExcaliburII's first ban (1 week) was only because of that and it was explained that was based on previous happenings and his current ban was explained in banned users thread and the message was posted here, few posts above.

The old fascist tatics of twisting words and facts, that's not comedy, that's sad and dangerous.

You used the old fascist tactic of banning a person for "antagonizing" the ruler. You should know it.

It was clear you wanted Pablo out of this forum. After the first (unfair) ban, you had the chance to pair up things, banning Fiber for the ugly post at Pauchis (and that post deserved much longer ban than Pablo's). You didn't do it, because you knew that banning Fiber the conflict would have got solved and you knew that without a ban Pablo's reaction would have been furious. And I'd say his reaction was even lighter than you expected (I think I was more aggressive than him in reaction). But you wanted him out, no matter what. It's your choice. I accept it.

But it's also my choice to leave mtf. Life is elsewhere. I have plenty of things to be angry for in real life, I surely don't need to increase anger on an internet forum. Have fun ruling the "world"!!
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:57 PM   #133
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirconek View Post
Moderation is a task made by individuals who have their own beliefes, background, etc. The unbiased moderation is a myth, just like unbiased science and journalism. We are here expected to have good sense and stick to the rules, still a lot of interpretation has place in our work. That's why is important to have a team.

We were annoyed by all the mess that happened here. A lot of posts bashing our work, intentional twist of words and facts in order to troll, etc. The message sent to the banned user (that is private and since the user is banned it shouldn't have been disclosed here) wasn't the most bureaucratic/protocolar/polite/whatever, still is not wrong, Pablo was told to stop and knew what he was doing was against the rules but he opted to keep on it. Why are mods supposed to not express emotions, do you expect robots? The message wasn't rude at all, just ironic
it's all good to say mods are human too, that is nothing new under the sun. what's still unexplained is why you seem to avoid the fundamental question at the heart of this conflict: why are you imposing the rules arbitrarily? either you guys are displaying blatant favoritism OR you have this logical explanation that somehow has failed to be understood by those of us asking the question and is too complicated to be explained by you. or if there's a third explanation, please let us know.

if your response is that you don't owe us any explanation, we have no choice but to realize that you have power with absolutely no checks and balances by the people over whom you impose this power. what makes you think such a feeling amongst the members of this forum will make your job easier?

so i will ask very rationally with no improper language: why is it that the punishments have been one-sided? why are one poster's inflammatory posts being deleted without the poster being banned, while two other posters have been banned for similar (and apparently less inflammatory) language? why are you so reluctant to explain the reason to us? i assure you, if you have a reason that's not "because we decided so" people will listen because most of us are adults here. and please give us something concrete without referring vaguely to past issues/past conflict etc.

i have absolutely no prior interest in these parties. i am asking because i cannot understand what makes consistency so incredibly hard to comply with for you mods.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:54 PM   #134
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by Spadea TT View Post
It was clear you wanted Pablo out of this forum. After the first (unfair) ban, you had the chance to pair up things, banning Fiber for the ugly post at Pauchis (and that post deserved much longer ban than Pablo's). You didn't do it, because you knew that banning Fiber the conflict would have got solved and you knew that without a ban Pablo's reaction would have been furious. And I'd say his reaction was even lighter than you expected (I think I was more aggressive than him in reaction).
that's a pretty good point here. you knew what was going to happen and instead of treating everybody the same way you've chosen the option to set a clear statement that some users are treated differently than others. Don't know why you decided to choose this alternative, it might have looked like the easy way to provoke pablo and to get him out of here, but it's certainly something that will leave a bad taste in some members' mouth
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:15 PM   #135
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Default Re: ExcaliburII and LinkMage case discussion

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Originally Posted by Zirconek View Post
It's you who's obsessed with me, who says things like "his moderation is a cancer to this forum". You are always talking about me, and I don't say a word about you for a long time. Obsessed too much? Many posters, who? You and prima donna? I consider a compliment you disliking me.

You make this forum worse with your posts. I can see some fun in some of your posts, but your arrogance is mostly annoying.



Nobody got 6 months for calling other bisexual. Not even ExcaliburII's first ban (1 week) was only because of that and it was explained that was based on previous happenings and his current ban was explained in banned users thread and the message was posted here, few posts above.

The old fascist tatics of twisting words and facts, that's not comedy, that's sad and dangerous.
You don't answer my points but as usual choose to kill the messanger, making skilled use of the old stalinist tactic of branding ppl "fascist" and "enemy of the people" previous to their elimination. Good Mod work

Your pretention that I didnt mention you is laughable, you're a mod in this forum and we are discussing moderation. If you want me not mentioning you go back to the rank-and-file, you know I have zero interest in you as a poster or a person.

I can see now where FiBeR learnt his tactics, he also want ppl not to mention him in a public forum
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