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Old 04-21-2010, 06:57 PM   #1
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Default Against players withdrawal

Hi everybody,

FITD rules say :
4) If a player withdraws after you have made your prediction, you MAY ONLY alter your pick if the withdrawing player was seeded. However, if the player who withdrew is not a seed, you may not replace.
Unless a seeded player withdraws, you are not allowed to change picks after the first post.

This rule is very nice if only the player withdrew before the start of the tourney. But actually many players withdraw after the deadline when no one can edit their draws and the net result of this is lucky losers been obligatory picked in the final rounds of those tournaments and this really makes no sense!

My suggestion can reduce the impact of these withdrawals but may be somewhat difficult to the managers!
So what is it ?

In addition to the draws we write before the start of the tournament each of us can write more four alternative draws each one can be taken in the case of withdrawal of a certain player provided that at least three of these players are of the top four seeded players in the tournament.

For example, in Barcelona I could write in addition to my main draw :
1- An alternative draw in the case of Nadal withdrawal.
2- An alternative draw in the case of Soderling withdrawal.
3- An alternative draw in the case of Tsonga withdrawal.
4- An alternative draw in the case of Gonzalez withdrawal.
And I could replace one of these four alternative draws with one in the case of withdrawal of any other player.
Of course the player must withdraw without playing even one point in any match ( the case makes him been replaced with a lucky loser ).

I didn't give a vision of withdrawal of more than one player in the same time.
I didn't give a vision of how can the alternative draws be written as they will make the topic more crowdy & pressed.

For your comments & suggestions.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

Yeah withdrawing players are always a pain but I think that's just part of the game. I just think writing out 4 alternate draws in case someone withdraws is a bit too much but that's just my opinion. Tournaments like Barcelona happen from time to time and I guess it takes a good predictor to take chances in guessing if a player is going to withdraw

and also, another problem regarding this is I remember a few tournaments back (not sure which one) there was a case where a seeded player withdrew before play started and people had time to change their draws (which some people did) but some people also didn't. The rule has always been that if a player withdraws then the LL/Q would replace that pick but I remember some people weren't happy about the rule when the draw got shifted around didn't change their picks. Actually I'm not really sure what that was about.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

In indianapolis last year the top seed withdrew and was replaced by a LL,. The LL then proceeded to win the tournament so don't give up hope if you got a LL winning

Honestly, I don't think very many people will go through the trouble of making 4 alternative draws
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

Dealing with LLs and unidentified Qs is just part of this game, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not so much personally there's no way in hell i'm gonna post four alternate draws. it just looks like a giant pain in the ass for players and managers.

also the proposed system encourages people to pick a top 4 seed and isn't fair to people who take the risk of picking someone who isn't a top seed, e.g., say i went out on a limb and picked ferrero or ferrer to win barcelona and he withdrew and was replaced by dlouhy, I wouldn't have an alternative draw, but if i played it safe and picked nadal, I'd have a backup plan.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
also the proposed system encourages people to pick a top 4 seed and isn't fair to people who take the risk of picking someone who isn't a top seed, e.g., say i went out on a limb and picked ferrero or ferrer to win barcelona and he withdrew and was replaced by dlouhy, I wouldn't have an alternative draw, but if i played it safe and picked nadal, I'd have a backup plan.
For this point I suggested that you may pick 3 top seeded & any other player.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

Leave it as is IMO. To me in this case there was always a decent chance Rafa would w/d. I picked him anyway. Those are the breaks. Also not fun for a manager.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

4) If a player withdraws after you have made your prediction, you MAY ONLY alter your pick if the withdrawing player was seeded. However, if the player who withdrew is not a seed, you may not replace.
Unless a seeded player withdraws, you are not allowed to change picks after the first post.
If you are changing picks due to the withdrawal of a seed, you must post your picks in a new post.



To be honest I find this rule very unfair.
When there is a withdrawal of a non seed, like Baghdatis in Basel, FITD participants who already gave their predictions can´t change them. This clearly gives players an advantage who can post their draws close to the start of the 1st match. Because not all of those who play FITD live in the same time zone, it´s simply not possible for everyone to post very late. So some choose to post their draws early and they might still be online to learn about a withdrawal.

I would suggest a rule change that a draw can be changed (quoted not edited) until the 1st match starts also if a non seed withdraws.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:09 AM   #8
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boarder35m View Post
4) If a player withdraws after you have made your prediction, you MAY ONLY alter your pick if the withdrawing player was seeded. However, if the player who withdrew is not a seed, you may not replace.
Unless a seeded player withdraws, you are not allowed to change picks after the first post.
If you are changing picks due to the withdrawal of a seed, you must post your picks in a new post.



To be honest I find this rule very unfair.
When there is a withdrawal of a non seed, like Baghdatis in Basel, FITD participants who already gave their predictions can´t change them. This clearly gives players an advantage who can post their draws close to the start of the 1st match. Because not all of those who play FITD live in the same time zone, it´s simply not possible for everyone to post very late. So some choose to post their draws early and they might still be online to learn about a withdrawal.

I would suggest a rule change that a draw can be changed (quoted not edited) until the 1st match starts also if a non seed withdraws.
Agree.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

I see both sides of it.

My guess would be the we allow the seeded player change because often many people will have the seed going very far in the tournament (like if Nadal or Federer withdraws), whereas very often an unseeded player who withdraws usually only causes a person to maybe get a match or two wrong (maybe a bit more in a case where there is a good player who happens to be unseeded).

Of course, it seems easy enough to let people change, but as a manager it is a PITA to have to change 25 draws if a seeded player goes out, and asking a manager to go back and enter 25 draws again so people can try and grab an extra 20 points isn't much better.

Also, the current system allows for a bit of decision-making, risk-taking and smarts to do well. You know when a guy wins a tourney and is scheduled to play a smaller tournie the next week he may not play, or may play at a lower level. If Melzer wins Vienna, it is not entirely wise to have him win the next week as well. Adds a bit more to the game in a way, though I understand that is not really the purpose for FITD.

If there were to be a change, I would almost rather the changes only be allowed in Masters and GS events where the ranking points are much more valuable than in 250s.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

Question for the managers, when do you imput everyone's draws into your spreadsheet? If you do it after the first match begins then it wouldn't be any hassle when it comes to people switching their draws would it?

I'm totally in favour of changing this rule
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

allow people to change their draw once, so one can react if sb. important withdraws before the deadline and still it keeps the effort for the manager low as nobody can change 5 times or so

and I'm not really in favour of alternative draws, apart from the effort, things might get confusing if more than one player withdraw
however, a good solution would be:
if my projected winner withdraws before the tourney, my runner-up should be counted as projection for the win as I would obviously pick him over any LL, and this way I still have a chance to score in the final
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: Against players withdrawal

I personally try and do it 3-4 times a day after the draw comes out (every 5-6 entries), sometimes more, so I don't have to input 40 draws at once.
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2008: Olympics, Stockholm; 2009: Chennai; 2010: Basel
TT Singles:
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Finalist: 2010: Ostrava CH, Braunschweig CH
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Finalist: 2008: Tulsa CH (w/hahaha7); 2009: Wolfsburg CH (w/EnriqueIG8), Manerbio CH (w/dusan1610); Como CH (w/Adder A216); Champaign CH (w/Adder A216); 2010: Ostrava CH (w/Adder A216); Aptos CH (w/Exponente); Binghamton CH (w/Adder A216); 2011: Dallas CH (w/Adder A216)
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