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Old 10-14-2011, 05:01 PM   #256
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

hahaha
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:24 PM   #257
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
Im setting the facts straight for the general audience.
your problem, gagó, is that you assume people really take you seriously
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:27 AM   #258
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

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Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
Again, yes the money supply increases and money is being "created out of nothing". I've mentioned the money multiplier before and first referenced to it when you made your awesome suggestion. However, what you fail to see is that that money has value because it has an interest. In addition, all the deposits exist in the balance sheets of the banks. It doesn't magically spring into existence.

Inflation does not simply mean the increase of money supply... It means the decrease of the value of money over time. In FRB, the money creation doesn't affect inflation since the money created has similar value than the existing money stock and GDP increases when the investments made on this money increase. When you print money however, no value is added, therefore inflation increases.

I would very much like to hear the states that are using this method you're suggesting and give practical examples how it works please instead of simply saying that that is what we should do.



It does seem to be what you're suggesting, just replace the people buying the flat with governments paying off trade deficits. If it's not, please elaborate much more specifically, I'm actually genuinely interested.
Money does not have value because of interest. That's a ridiculous claim unsupported by reality and common sense.

The system allows banks to take one billion and loan out 10 billion. Very hokus pokus...

There is a well established correlation between an increasing money supply and inflation in the long term.

There's no reason why public bank cannot make investments that benefit GDP growth.

There's no intrinsic reason why democratization of the monetary system must result in hyperinflation, or even more inflation than the current, inflationary system. It completely depends on how you manage it. The heart of the issue is whether the money power should be firmly in the control of a private cartel or under democratic oversight, serving the public.

According to a study by the budget commite of the Missouri house of representatives, a state bank could cut their budget deficit in half. North Dakota has a state bank that gives practically interest free loans for state infrastructure projects (studies have shown that interest composes 30-50% of public projects), low interest rates in general and helps keep profits in the state and in the public interest.

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The state deposits its tax revenues in the Bank, which in turn ensures that a high portion of state funds are invested in the state economy. In addition, the Bank is able to remit a portion of its earnings back to the state treasury . . . . Thanks in part to these institutional arrangements, North Dakota is the only state that has been in continuous budget surplus since before the financial crisis and it has the lowest unemployment rate in the country.

In contrast, California is the largest state economy in the nation, yet without a state-owned bank, is unable to steer hundreds of billions of dollars in state revenues into productive investment within the state. Instead, California deposits its many billions in tax revenues in large private banks which often lend the funds out-of-state, invest them in speculative trading strategies (including derivative bets against the state’s own bonds), and do not remit any of their earnings back to the state treasury. Meanwhile, California suffers from constrained private credit conditions, high unemployment levels well above the national average, and the stagnation of state and local tax receipts. The state’s only response has been to stumble from one budget crisis to another for the past three years, with each round of spending cuts further weakening its economy, tax base, and credit rating.
http://growth.newamerica.net/sites/n...201%20July.pdf
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:48 AM   #259
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Interesting facts about interest:

Quote:
Consider a mortgage. We borrow $200k, and after 30 years we will have payed about $500k. So we pay $300,000 interest over the loan.

What would happen with our purchasing power if we only needed to repay the principal? It would mean we would have $10,000 per year more purchasing power during the 30 years we repay the mortgage. Our credit would greatly improve, because our liabilities would be much smaller.

Interest is payed to those who have money, and payed by those who don't and therefore need to borrow. Interest is therefore a wealth transfer from poor to rich.

Margrit Kennedy, a German monetarist, has quantified this wealth transfer in Germany. Her conclusions: the 80% poorest Germans pay 1 billion euros per day (365 billion per year) in interest to the richest 10%. The next richest 10% pay about as much interest as they receive.

Also, within the 10% brackets the same wealth transfer is happening, so the poorest 8% of the richest 10% pay interest to the richest 1%.

It stands to reason that the situation is more or less the same everywhere. This means that the poorest 80% Americans pay about 1.5 trillion dollars per year to the richest 10 percent.

This is the key driver centralizing wealth in the hands of the plutocracy.

Another problem with interest is that it is not transparent who pays what. The strange thing is that even if you don't have any debts at all, you will still lose up to 45% of your disposable income through interest.

Producers incur 'capital costs'. They pass these costs on to their customers. The amount of interest they pay on the loans to finance their production differs per sector. But it transpires that on average 45% of the prices we pay can be related to cost for capital.
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/10/...-interest.html

Margrit Kennedy's "Interest & Inflation Free Money"
http://www.margritkennedy.de/books.html

This book reveals the horrors of usury. You don't have to agree with her radical suggestions to find it worth reading.

We can at least lessen this transfer of wealth from the masses to the elite by introducing wage caps, outlawing bonuses and outlawing or nationalizing profits in banking. I for one doubt that greed is good in banking. If anything, I believe bankers would be less prone to mess things up if they were public servants rather than profit/bonus-chasing.
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:54 AM   #260
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Australia is actually in a position to prosper, even in this global economic climate. Such a shame our government are such wasteful spenders and big taxers
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:17 PM   #261
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

don't worry, verdasco, australia is gonna be the place to be in the coming decades. land ist still fairly cheap, abundant raw materials, highly-skilled workforce, proximity to the booming region of greater asia, little debt compared to europe/america and - last but certainly not least - immigrants flock to australia in greater numbers than ever before.

as a matter of fact, australia has almost reached austrias and switzerlands popularity levels among german emigrants, having taken over the united states and canada a couple of years ago. plus it's mostly the high(er) potentials that wanna start over down under, unlike in western europe where society needs to absorb quite an amount of unskilled labour from all kinds of backgrounds.

canberra can tax all they want, nothing will stop australia from growing.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:35 PM   #262
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

alright, so france is gonna be downgraded any minute now. fully expected by the markets as well as fully calculated by the french government. sarkozy deliberately jeopardising his triple a rating means german taxpayers will turn out to be the backstop for trillions of euros in the coming months and years. no prob for sarko, next up: shmoozing merkel into the whole "grand european idea" thing again.

makes me sick. i wanna be american.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:03 AM   #263
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

If Europe decides a haircut around 60% for Greece, then Greece will become Europe's "best and cheap country".
The very first years will be hard but I see Europeans taking advantage of it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:51 AM   #264
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

here we go:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...anks-50-greece

Quote:
Eurozone crisis: banks agree to 50% cut in Greece's debt...Private investors take 'haircut' on Greek bonds in €100bn bailout deal that also strengthens European rescue fund.
dunno what to make of it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:05 AM   #265
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Says to me they'll go to any lengths to keep patching up a thoroughly broken international financial system at the taxpayer's expense, when they're not creating money out of thin air, that is.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #266
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It's interesting to see countries like Greece, Italy (Rome at that time), and those others that once had large empires and influence, crumble. Bad karma.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:38 PM   #267
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?



used to love these two lads when i lived in oz...
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why are you so seriously
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:53 PM   #268
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15503097

Quote:
Germany finds extra 55bn euros after accounting error
just when you think you've seen it all...
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:08 PM   #269
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I'm going to check my bank statements now. Who knows....................
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:25 PM   #270
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15503097

just when you think you've seen it all...
Debt 81.1% of GDP and that's considered a good result? We've all gone mad and we'll never get to pay our debts.
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