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Old 02-23-2010, 12:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by Or Levy View Post

The assasins killed a known terrorist who murdered two captive soldiors in cold blood, and was traveling in Dubai under an alias. I'm not sure how it is relevent to the subject of my post at all. Explain please.
MTF is littered with the anti-Semitic thoughts of this goon.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Everyone knows Putin did it, just as he murdered journalists. They just don't care, there will never be anyone brought to justice in Russia.
putin has nothing to do with the journalists' murder or litvinenko. either some fringe kgb group got carried away or someone else (oligarchs, mafia, warlords, gunrunners, you name it, russia has lots of badasses to offer) got rid of people they deemed dangerous to their operations. those journalists were nobodies in russia, there was absolutely no need for putin to kill them publicly.

the kgb, just like the cia, the mossad etc., doesn't poison openly for the world to see but makes people vanish without a trace. that's the essence of secret services. to me there's a higher likelihood that people like abramovich or berezovsky are behind the open hits we're witnessing related to russia.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Ever heard of "The Buck Stops Here?''
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:38 PM   #34
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Default Re: NATO does it again

i do know what it means but i'm not sure if i understand what you're getting at. do you believe it's right to blame putin for hits ordered by abramovich because in the end, they're all russians and it boils down to the kreml for creating monsters like good ole roman?
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: NATO does it again

I just feel that those hits could not have taken place without Putin's approval.

Anyway, I thought Litvinenko had stated that Putin would try to assassinate Abramovich. How does that make you suspect Abramovich had Litvinenko killed?
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: NATO does it again

I can understand that middle easterns are angry at Israel, I dont get why Swedish media is obsessed about Israel and doesnt care about conflicts that are literaly 100 times worse in human suffering. It gets scary how the swedish media threats the conflict like the new holocaust and how many terrible scenes of suffering are shown in swedish television to make everyone in Sweden revolt against Israel and demand boycot of their products and even davis cup matches. No one in Sweden demands boycot of China, Russia, Turkey, Sudan or any other country that has been in conflict with minorities, no one really cares about Kurdistan, Tibet, Darfur and many other struggles for independence. So I understand jewish feels there is somekind of antisemitism deeply rooted in societies that critisize Israel, yet I promise you that there are really alot more antisemitism in Israelfriendly USA than in Swedish society, I have never been in touch with any antisemitic feelings with swedish people, except many arabs who live here that is. I think the obsession comes more because Israel is such a close ally with the USA and Swedish media is in general very much to the left, so they see Israel and american conflicts in middle east as a symbol for the struggle against western capitalist imperialism. So dont take it personal Levy, if you come to Sweden and say you are jewish no one will threat you bad but if you say you are from Israel you will get many uncomfortable questions and if you defend Israel most simply wont accept it and think you are defending murdering of little children they have seen in the swedish state television.
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Old 02-24-2010, 06:31 AM   #37
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by marcRD View Post
I can understand that middle easterns are angry at Israel, I dont get why Swedish media is obsessed about Israel and doesnt care about conflicts that are literaly 100 times worse in human suffering. It gets scary how the swedish media threats the conflict like the new holocaust and how many terrible scenes of suffering are shown in swedish television to make everyone in Sweden revolt against Israel and demand boycot of their products and even davis cup matches. No one in Sweden demands boycot of China, Russia, Turkey, Sudan or any other country that has been in conflict with minorities, no one really cares about Kurdistan, Tibet, Darfur and many other struggles for independence. So I understand jewish feels there is somekind of antisemitism deeply rooted in societies that critisize Israel, yet I promise you that there are really alot more antisemitism in Israelfriendly USA than in Swedish society, I have never been in touch with any antisemitic feelings with swedish people, except many arabs who live here that is. I think the obsession comes more because Israel is such a close ally with the USA and Swedish media is in general very much to the left, so they see Israel and american conflicts in middle east as a symbol for the struggle against western capitalist imperialism. So dont take it personal Levy, if you come to Sweden and say you are jewish no one will threat you bad but if you say you are from Israel you will get many uncomfortable questions and if you defend Israel most simply wont accept it and think you are defending murdering of little children they have seen in the swedish state television.
your country is seriously sick.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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your country is seriously sick.
Well, to me Sweden tries too hard to be the conscience of the world but we fail to recognize how we have not stand up to great values in times when the world was truly in danger. In the second world war I belive Sweden was the only country in Europe that really was richer than when the war begun, we let german soldiers pass our country with train to oppress our nordic brothers Norway and we called ourself neutrals even if we exported almost everything to Nazigermany and in every way acted as allies of the nazists. After the second world war (more like in the 70s) Sweden somehow got the idea that we could teach something about great human values to the world and thought of ourselves as an example to the rest of the world, we never really had to take difficult decisions and still today we want to be outside every conflict to point finger at someone (usually USA and Israel).

I dont mind you calling my country sick, I am not that proud of the swedish when we think we can stand in a moral high ground in relation to the rest of the world when we really should deal with our own demons before becoming the conscience of the world.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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I just feel that those hits could not have taken place without Putin's approval.
why? i don't think it's that hard to kill people when you're a professional hitman. the victims we're talking about here weren't shielded from the public in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
Anyway, I thought Litvinenko had stated that Putin would try to assassinate Abramovich. How does that make you suspect Abramovich had Litvinenko killed?
if abramovich was a true pain in the ass for putin, he'd be dead by now. anyways, it doesn't really matter what oligarch is actually behind it. i just refuse to believe that putin would allow such a public lynching in western europe when he could've put some stones on the guy's feet and simply sink him in the baltic sea just as easily. like i said, either this was some ex-kgb fringe group going for vendetta or stuff like that, or it was business-related - which is far more likely, if you ask me. litvinenko had tons of shady acquaintances, from gunrunners to smugglers, ex-kgb hitmen to drug cartel billionaires. i'd think it's fairly easy to get mixed up in all kinds of shenanigans out there.
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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or it was business-related - which is far more likely, if you ask me. litvinenko had tons of shady acquaintances, from gunrunners to smugglers, ex-kgb hitmen to drug cartel billionaires. i'd think it's fairly easy to get mixed up in all kinds of shenanigans out there.
Business - big and bad.
Politics - not so big and not so bad.

That seems to be your mantra.
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: NATO does it again

russian politics - big and bad.
russian business - smaller but even worse.

again, let me ask you: what use does the litvinenko death with all its circumstances have for putin? shock and awe at home? first of all, i believe most anti-kreml agitators knew very well what the kreml was and is capable of. there's just no need to go for another case study, at least not with all the collateral damage (worldwide public outcry, international investigations, diplomatic hassle etc.) stuff like that inevitably comes along with. it just doesn't make sense to me.

what DOES make sense though is hiring a hitman to kill a guy that knows WAY too much about WAY too many things and then blame it on the kreml.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:12 AM   #42
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Default Re: NATO does it again

I can't honestly remember. I read a long article in the London Times, but forget the conclusion. I just seem to remember Litvinenko having said that Putin would try to kill him.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Well, to me Sweden tries too hard to be the conscience of the world but we fail to recognize how we have not stand up to great values in times when the world was truly in danger. In the second world war I belive Sweden was the only country in Europe that really was richer than when the war begun, we let german soldiers pass our country with train to oppress our nordic brothers Norway and we called ourself neutrals even if we exported almost everything to Nazigermany and in every way acted as allies of the nazists. After the second world war (more like in the 70s) Sweden somehow got the idea that we could teach something about great human values to the world and thought of ourselves as an example to the rest of the world, we never really had to take difficult decisions and still today we want to be outside every conflict to point finger at someone (usually USA and Israel).

I dont mind you calling my country sick, I am not that proud of the swedish when we think we can stand in a moral high ground in relation to the rest of the world when we really should deal with our own demons before becoming the conscience of the world.
Exactly. Im glad you realize all that.

BTW is not only anti-israelism, old good antisemitism is alive and kicking there too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...te-crimes.html
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Exactly. Im glad you realize all that.

BTW is not only anti-israelism, old good antisemitism is alive and kicking there too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...te-crimes.html
It is not the swedes who are behind these antisemitic hate crimes, they are arabs living in Sweden. I can be very critical of my fellow swedes but antisemitism is definetly not an issue among swedes.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:25 PM   #45
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Sweden brought the Swedish girls to the world. For that they must be forgiven for anything they might have done in past history...
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