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Old 02-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machiavelli View Post
they could do a CSI:Miami,Las Vegas or New York like version of Mossad, they are a highly efficent crew I must say...
they are - which is why i doubt their involvement in the whole dubai thing. those guys have been flat out amateurs, killing someone publicly, leaving tons of traces and so on. that's not how the mossad works. in the same way you can basically rule out any kgb (at least the inner circles) involvement in the litvinenko murder.
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by Or Levy View Post
Killing civillians by mistake, that is.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/as...ike/index.html

The UN is somehow silent regarding this incidents. Not one word.

I'm sure the last thing the NATO forces wanted was to hurt civillians, but - the same thing is true regarding Israeli soldiors.

But somehow - The UN is silent, the Arab world is silent, and no new Goldstone is crying out foul and 'war crimes' and writing no report.

So, what's true? The lives of Afgan children worth less than the lives of Palestinians childen? Or maybe Israel just a more convienet target than NATO?

And BTW, unlike Israel, the USO and NATO have no 'self-defense' explantion, so shouldn't what they are doing be considered worse?

Discuss. A serious discussion please. No flames.
Nice deflection.

So what do you think about state sponsored assaination and using the identities of real people who now might become targets of violence?
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: NATO does it again

I'm thinking that I don't know how is that different from assasinations using airplanes without pilots like what is going on in Afganistan to kill Taliban commandors, which happens all the time. Only you don't accidently hit innocent people that way. Bombing from the air is a lot easier and a lot more risky for a country than sending operatives.

As for the use of passports, I'm conflicted, loads of problems with it but as apperantly we're talking about people with Duel Israeli citizenship who reside in Israel, I guess they'll be those raising the questions with my goverment, if the Mossad is indeed responsible.

As for the Brits and the Irish and whoever bitchin' about the use of their passport, last time I checked, many of the countries in Europe are communicating and exchanging information with the Mossad all the time, so they can't really cry foul now. Anyway, the passport numbers which were used don't match the numbers on the real passports (these are not stolen passports, I mean), and everyone knows they were fake, so I don't see them really getting detained.

One last thing- if the next argument is "Why not seize him (proven and self confessed terrorist who murdered two captive soldiors) and bring him to justice" my reply would be "Because then they kidnap more Israeli soldiors and demend the relase of terrorist trialed and brought to justice".

Now that I've answered YOUR question (as honestly as I can), how about you answer mine?
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Can someone explain something to me? Everyone knows the people involved in the hit were not the people named in the passports. Yet Dubai is asking for the arrest of the people named in the passports, right? Is Dubai knowingly asking for the arrest of innocent people?

And the photos that were published around the world. Are they of the hitmen or of the innocent people? I could not get this clear in the press reports.

And Levy's comment about the Brits and Irish bitchin' about stolen identities is ridiculous. Just because a government co-operates with another doesn't give the other the right to break international law. If Israel did this, I hope the British and Irish governments cut them loose.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
in the same way you can basically rule out any kgb (at least the inner circles) involvement in the litvinenko murder.
Everyone knows Putin did it, just as he murdered journalists. They just don't care, there will never be anyone brought to justice in Russia.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:12 AM   #21
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Or Levy View Post
Killing civillians by mistake, that is.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/as...ike/index.html

The UN is somehow silent regarding this incidents. Not one word.

I'm sure the last thing the NATO forces wanted was to hurt civillians, but - the same thing is true regarding Israeli soldiors.

But somehow - The UN is silent, the Arab world is silent, and no new Goldstone is crying out foul and 'war crimes' and writing no report.

So, what's true? The lives of Afgan children worth less than the lives of Palestinians childen? Or maybe Israel just a more convienet target than NATO?

And BTW, unlike Israel, the USO and NATO have no 'self-defense' explantion, so shouldn't what they are doing be considered worse?

Discuss. A serious discussion please. No flames.
Doesn't really make much sense to call out your biggest ally regarding their conduct in wartime does it, especially when your country doesn't exactly have a stellar track record?
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:18 AM   #22
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Or Levy View Post
I'm thinking that I don't know how is that different from assasinations using airplanes without pilots like what is going on in Afganistan to kill Taliban commandors, which happens all the time. Only you don't accidently hit innocent people that way. Bombing from the air is a lot easier and a lot more risky for a country than sending operatives.

As for the use of passports, I'm conflicted, loads of problems with it but as apperantly we're talking about people with Duel Israeli citizenship who reside in Israel, I guess they'll be those raising the questions with my goverment, if the Mossad is indeed responsible.

As for the Brits and the Irish and whoever bitchin' about the use of their passport, last time I checked, many of the countries in Europe are communicating and exchanging information with the Mossad all the time, so they can't really cry foul now. Anyway, the passport numbers which were used don't match the numbers on the real passports (these are not stolen passports, I mean), and everyone knows they were fake, so I don't see them really getting detained.

One last thing- if the next argument is "Why not seize him (proven and self confessed terrorist who murdered two captive soldiors) and bring him to justice" my reply would be "Because then they kidnap more Israeli soldiors and demend the relase of terrorist trialed and brought to justice".

Now that I've answered YOUR question (as honestly as I can), how about you answer mine?
Yea, this time everyone knows their fake. How do you know that the next time this happens it won't be clear that forged passports were used and that the individuals whose identities were stolen won't end up being targeted?

And regarding the British and Irish bitching about it, you're argument doesn't make sense. Because they collaborate with the Mossad they allow for the privacy of their citizens to be violated? I guess my passport's up for grabs, too, then. And hasn't this been an issue in the past? Didn't the British bitch out the Mossad for the exact same reason? It's not like the Israelis can legitimately claim that this was a one-time mistake. They knowingly went against the wishes of an ally. I'd be pissed too if I was British and I'd question whether collaborating with the Mossad in the future is in my best interest.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:41 AM   #23
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Honestly, I just don't know enough about the Mossad 'understandings' with forgien agenicies to give any kind of educated response.

I'm not sure British operatives have never used faked forgien passport for their activities.(Neither do you). I'm not sure whether the goverments officially condanming REALLY mean it, or are they doing it because it is expected of them to protest but that this is not going to be a big deal. I'm sure no one is pleased, but I don't know if they are as pissed off as they are pretending to be.

What I'm hearing from the Israeli newspapers, is that we're going to get a slap on the wrist, and that's it.

Are we getting only a slap of the wrist because no one can prove it was the Mossad, because nobody cares a Hammas terrorist died, or because forgien agencies (MI-5, etc) are doing similiar things, I don't know. I honestly don't. I think there is more to the story than we'd ever know.

As for the passports - real name, fake passports, fake photos (some of the people there are disguised).
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:43 AM   #24
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by Chip_s_m View Post
Doesn't really make much sense to call out your biggest ally regarding their conduct in wartime does it, especially when your country doesn't exactly have a stellar track record?
Not calling the US on their actions, I'm calling the UN on their.

My only point, is that Israel can't be the only country/body on the accused chair, if international laws apply - it should apply all around.

Last edited by Or Levy : 02-23-2010 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: NATO does it again

funny that this post was started by an israeli especially after the recent mossad story
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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funny that this post was started by an israeli especially after the recent mossad story
Huh? Say what you want about the recent Mossad story (whether it was the Mossad or not, I don't know), it was exactly the opposite of killing innocent civillians.

The assasins killed a known terrorist who murdered two captive soldiors in cold blood, and was traveling in Dubai under an alias. I'm not sure how it is relevent to the subject of my post at all. Explain please.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: NATO does it again

Mossad, my favourite identity stealing was one of an invalid New Zealander who had no chance of travelling abroad.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by Or Levy View Post
Huh? Say what you want about the recent Mossad story (whether it was the Mossad or not, I don't know), it was exactly the opposite of killing innocent civillians.

The assasins killed a known terrorist who murdered two captive soldiors in cold blood, and was traveling in Dubai under an alias. I'm not sure how it is relevent to the subject of my post at all. Explain please.
i don't care who got killed. what they did is a break of international law faking passports of known people and killing someone in another peaceful country. how is that legal? i also wouldn't be surprised if netanyahu is involved. he's a top terrorist working under "democracy".

sadly israel will get away with it like each time. that's the only thing bothering me.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Mossad, my favourite identity stealing was one of an invalid New Zealander who had no chance of travelling abroad.
did they got away with it?
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: NATO does it again

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Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
funny that this post was started by an israeli especially after the recent mossad story
You're quite in the right place but slightly off time, about 70yrs late only.
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