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Old 12-12-2009, 04:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

I agree, liberalism is the antichrist
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Therein lies the distinction between classical liberalism and modern liberalism, one postulates freedom while the other opposes it.
Agreed, I find that both sides of the political spectrum are becoming more controlling of expression of opinion. In the US, the conservatives made it almost anathema to speak out against the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in the early days. You would be considered a traitor or something. The liberals are trying to make it a crime to say anything against gays, Muslims, etc. and the Guardian (especially CIF moderation) could be their mentor.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Liberalism is a misnomer. It's just as hostile to truly "outside the box" opinion as the conservatives.
PD uses "liberal" in the American sense, basically "leftist". Here in Europe a "liberal" is a follower of classic liberalism, a right wing person.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by jonathancrane View Post
I agree, liberalism is the antichrist
shut up you progre clown
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
PD uses "liberal" in the American sense, basically "leftist". Here in Europe a "liberal" is a follower of classic liberalism, a right wing person.
Correction:
Quote:
Originally Posted by prima donna View Post
Therein lies the distinction between classical liberalism and modern liberalism, one postulates freedom while the other opposes it.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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shut up you progre clown
Shy facha catalán
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

If you want good intelligent news reporting in Britain, Channel 4 news is a must.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by prima donna View Post
Correction:
But that's a distinction only valid in American circles. Here in Europe "modern liberalism" is just the modern development, by modern authors and scholars, of the classic theory and praxis of classic liberalism. So in fact it's the same thing. The Economist is liberal, The Guardian is leftist.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by Aloimeh View Post
Agreed, I find that both sides of the political spectrum are becoming more controlling of expression of opinion. In the US, the conservatives made it almost anathema to speak out against the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in the early days. You would be considered a traitor or something. The liberals are trying to make it a crime to say anything against gays, Muslims, etc. and the Guardian (especially CIF moderation) could be their mentor.
All very true, but should we choose to couch our discussion in geopolitical terms, one must acknowledge that political correctness is the progeny of Western European culture and, as most trends founded in Europe do, gradually disseminated to and throughout America.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
But that's a distinction only valid in American circles. Here in Europe "modern liberalism" is just the modern development, by modern authors and scholars, of the classic theory and praxis of classic liberalism. So in fact it's the same thing. The Economist is liberal, The Guardian is leftist.
The Economist is vile beyond belief, can't stand them. Worse than the Guardian, in my view.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by prima donna View Post
All very true, but should we choose to couch our discussion in geopolitical terms, one must acknowledge that political correctness is the progeny of Western European culture and, as most trends founded in Europe do, gradually disseminated to and throughout America.
PC an European invention? i don't quite agree.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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The Economist is vile beyond belief, can't stand them. Worse than the Guardian, in my view.
I understand that. You're a true conservative, while The Economist is the world beacon of liberalism (European sense). While both schools of Tought are "right wing" they sharply diverge in several core principles.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
But that's a distinction only valid in American circles. Here in Europe "modern liberalism" is just the modern development, by modern authors and scholars, of the classic theory and praxis of classic liberalism. So in fact it's the same thing. The Economist is liberal, The Guardian is leftist.
Not so. Perhaps the only noteworthy difference between American and European liberals is the level of forthrightness: In Italy, for example, many liberals nonchalantly refer to themselves as socialists, whereas Americans abhor the term liberal, much less socialist, and have adopted in place of both the euphemism "progressive".

The United Kingdom is perhaps, in some ways, more politically correct than the United States -- demographic projections of a growing Muslim population are evidence of this. Although it should be said, the United Kingdom remains the most conservative in Europe in economic terms.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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All very true, but should we choose to couch our discussion in geopolitical terms, one must acknowledge that political correctness is the progeny of Western European culture and, as most trends founded in Europe do, gradually disseminated to and throughout America.
Utterly ridiculous notion.

USA is the country that encourages affirmative action which is illegal in Europe.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Guardian is a filthy liberal rag and "Comment is Free" is a scam

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Originally Posted by prima donna View Post
Not so. Perhaps the only noteworthy difference between American and European liberals is the level of forthrightness: In Italy, for example, many liberals nonchalantly refer to themselves as socialists, whereas Americans abhor the term liberal, much less socialist, and have adopted in place of both the euphemism "progressive".

The United Kingdom is perhaps, in some ways, more politically correct than the United States -- demographic projections of a growing Muslim population are evidence of this. Although it should be said, the United Kingdom remains the most conservative in European in economic terms.
What you call Italian "liberals" aren't called so in Italy or anywhere in Europe, only in America. Here a liberal is Mrs Thatcher. What you call a "liberal" is here a leftist, a progressist a socialist, etc., never a "liberal".
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