[jonathancrane]

I agree, liberalism is the antichrist

[Aloimeh]

Originally Posted by prima donna

Therein lies the distinction between classical liberalism and modern liberalism, one postulates freedom while the other opposes it.

Agreed, I find that both sides of the political spectrum are becoming more controlling of expression of opinion. In the US, the conservatives made it almost anathema to speak out against the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in the early days. You would be considered a traitor or something. The liberals are trying to make it a crime to say anything against gays, Muslims, etc. and the Guardian (especially CIF moderation) could be their mentor.

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by Aloimeh

Liberalism is a misnomer. It's just as hostile to truly "outside the box" opinion as the conservatives.

PD uses "liberal" in the American sense, basically "leftist". Here in Europe a "liberal" is a follower of classic liberalism, a right wing person.

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by jonathancrane

I agree, liberalism is the antichrist

shut up you progre clown

[prima donna]

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

PD uses "liberal" in the American sense, basically "leftist". Here in Europe a "liberal" is a follower of classic liberalism, a right wing person.

Correction:

Originally Posted by prima donna

Therein lies the distinction between classical liberalism and modern liberalism, one postulates freedom while the other opposes it.

[jonathancrane]

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

shut up you progre clown

Shy facha catalán

[:Zaz:]

If you want good intelligent news reporting in Britain, Channel 4 news is a must.

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by prima donna

Correction:

But that's a distinction only valid in American circles. Here in Europe "modern liberalism" is just the modern development, by modern authors and scholars, of the classic theory and praxis of classic liberalism. So in fact it's the same thing. The Economist is liberal, The Guardian is leftist.

[prima donna]

Originally Posted by Aloimeh

Agreed, I find that both sides of the political spectrum are becoming more controlling of expression of opinion. In the US, the conservatives made it almost anathema to speak out against the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in the early days. You would be considered a traitor or something. The liberals are trying to make it a crime to say anything against gays, Muslims, etc. and the Guardian (especially CIF moderation) could be their mentor.

All very true, but should we choose to couch our discussion in geopolitical terms, one must acknowledge that political correctness is the progeny of Western European culture and, as most trends founded in Europe do, gradually disseminated to and throughout America.

[Aloimeh]

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

But that's a distinction only valid in American circles. Here in Europe "modern liberalism" is just the modern development, by modern authors and scholars, of the classic theory and praxis of classic liberalism. So in fact it's the same thing. The Economist is liberal, The Guardian is leftist.

The Economist is vile beyond belief, can't stand them. Worse than the Guardian, in my view.

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by prima donna

All very true, but should we choose to couch our discussion in geopolitical terms, one must acknowledge that political correctness is the progeny of Western European culture and, as most trends founded in Europe do, gradually disseminated to and throughout America.

PC an European invention? i don't quite agree.

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by Aloimeh

The Economist is vile beyond belief, can't stand them. Worse than the Guardian, in my view.

I understand that. You're a true conservative, while The Economist is the world beacon of liberalism (European sense). While both schools of Tought are "right wing" they sharply diverge in several core principles.

[prima donna]

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

But that's a distinction only valid in American circles. Here in Europe "modern liberalism" is just the modern development, by modern authors and scholars, of the classic theory and praxis of classic liberalism. So in fact it's the same thing. The Economist is liberal, The Guardian is leftist.

Not so. Perhaps the only noteworthy difference between American and European liberals is the level of forthrightness: In Italy, for example, many liberals nonchalantly refer to themselves as socialists, whereas Americans abhor the term liberal, much less socialist, and have adopted in place of both the euphemism "progressive".

The United Kingdom is perhaps, in some ways, more politically correct than the United States -- demographic projections of a growing Muslim population are evidence of this. Although it should be said, the United Kingdom remains the most conservative in Europe in economic terms.

[Henry Chinaski]

Originally Posted by prima donna

All very true, but should we choose to couch our discussion in geopolitical terms, one must acknowledge that political correctness is the progeny of Western European culture and, as most trends founded in Europe do, gradually disseminated to and throughout America.

Utterly ridiculous notion.

USA is the country that encourages affirmative action which is illegal in Europe.

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by prima donna

Not so. Perhaps the only noteworthy difference between American and European liberals is the level of forthrightness: In Italy, for example, many liberals nonchalantly refer to themselves as socialists, whereas Americans abhor the term liberal, much less socialist, and have adopted in place of both the euphemism "progressive".

The United Kingdom is perhaps, in some ways, more politically correct than the United States -- demographic projections of a growing Muslim population are evidence of this. Although it should be said, the United Kingdom remains the most conservative in European in economic terms.

What you call Italian "liberals" aren't called so in Italy or anywhere in Europe, only in America. Here a liberal is Mrs Thatcher. What you call a "liberal" is here a leftist, a progressist a socialist, etc., never a "liberal".