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View Poll Results: Which of the following do you consider to be the most limiting in terms of freedom?

Indoctrination 3 25.00%
Government 3 25.00%
Societal Norms 3 25.00%
Education 1 8.33%
Coorporations 1 8.33%
Hierarchies 0 0%
Laws 0 0%
Other (please state) 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #1
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Default Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

It's a straight forward question, so besides the poll, I'd like to leave it as open-ended as possible.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Physics. ;P
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garson007 View Post
Physics. ;P


That's quite true.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

I said societal norms but in essence all the options are intertwined. Norms dictate the law, education, corporations, governments hierarchies, and also "indoctrinate" people into believing what is right or wrong as an absolute.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

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Originally Posted by Midnight Ninja View Post
I said societal norms but in essence all the options are intertwined. Norms dictate the law, education, corporations, governments hierarchies, and also "indoctrinate" people into believing what is right or wrong as an absolute.
Ah, it seems you are a fellow Chomskyian, or I am I wrong?

Well I should not say Chomskyian, because I don't agree with him on EVERYTHING, but on many things.

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Old 12-08-2009, 12:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Two videos, which some of you may or may no view, but which I think sheds some perspective on the issue:



And this Debate is simply fascinating, but I think is mostly for fans of Philosophy, so you have been warned



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Old 12-08-2009, 12:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Big government.
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfloyd View Post
Ah, it seems you are a fellow Chomskyian, or I am I wrong?

Well I should not say Chomskyian, because I don't agree with him on EVERYTHING, but on many things.

I'm the same as you on Chomsky. I agree with a lot of what he says but not everything. He seems to go overboard sometimes in my opinion.
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Goverment is the single most powerful and active force against freedom.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Freedom is far too abstract a concept to attribute it's lack of (in terms of maximal magnitude), to any one single human derived, or otherwise, structure or institute. Not to mention that by it's very definition freedom is an impossibility in totality.

It's even more important to note that the meaning of freedom is completely relative to the user. I could for instance chose to be part of a society with governmental structure; forcing total anarchy on me would be an encroachment on my freedom of choice.

Even though this is not part of the topic, it is important to understand the consequences and responsibilities that comes along with extra freedom.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Money.
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

An intrusive, gargantuan government.
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

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Old 12-08-2009, 04:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Big government.
Since you live in Europe, I would like to know what aspects of government bother you, besides taxation.

I mean, I presume you like the social contract of healthcare, and pensions and so on that make European Governments, in my opinion, less intrusive than the American Government in the sense that you are already covered an need not pay out of your own pocket to private money pursuing institutions.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I certainly agree that Big government greatly reduces freedom, no doubt.

But it seems to me that this is a Ying and Yang issue in the modern society we live in.

The other half of intrusion, I think are corporations. After all, it is the corporate giants that set agenda's, "tell" you what you want and is the system we must go through in order to move in any direction in society, I mean there are practically no other options.

Now I'll add that even though I do not want Government intrusion, I also reject corporate intrusion.

Now, sure one can argue that they offer variety, but the main pursuit they have is to make money, which leads to all type of problems.

Anyway, I'll stop here because I'd like to hear your opinion on big government.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

This is mtf. Completely screwed. Means either parents or law.
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