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Old 11-27-2009, 12:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
the guys who want to diminish the pro-climate change topics are fully equipped: nuclear energy, oil, other fossil fuels etc.
Nuclear energy has no effect on AGW. All things considered, it is the future - both as fission and fusion.

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Originally Posted by Zirconek View Post
Climate change is not a theory or possibility anymore, it's a fact according to scientific community.
Lol, actually it is a theory just not in the way of how most laymen define the term. It is undeniable that we put trapped carbon in circulation. It is also undeniable that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. However the "severe" predictions are finding it difficult to pass even simple hypothesis tests, irrespective of model.

We know two things:
  • The climate system is hugely unpredictable and we don't have nearly enough information to make a clear prediction, without reverting to sub-par models.
  • That we are increasing the carbon content in circulation.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by Garson007 View Post

We know two things:
  • The climate system is hugely unpredictable and we don't have nearly enough information to make a clear prediction, without reverting to sub-par models.
  • That we are increasing the carbon content in circulation.
The people who have a career stake in climate change want to brainwash everyone into thinking it is 100% man-made.

One of the most ridiculous images of the last decade is Al Gore in his movie using a forklift to demonstrate how the blade end of the hockey stick graph was going straight up, indicating disastrously rising temperatures due to carbon emissions. Good movie stuff, but unfortunately the graph was fake. Politicians just see science as something to be manipulated to achieve their political goals.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:08 AM   #18
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
who do you think is pushing the climate agenda, buddyholly? i still have a hard time figuring out who's financing those guys as apparently they don't have any money and - as we all know - money is the main factor when it comes to pushing an agenda in the media. the guys who want to diminish the pro-climate change topics are fully equipped: nuclear energy, oil, other fossil fuels etc. have enormous sums to boycott any change whatsoever. the solar industry and the likes have hardly any money though.
Money is not the main factor when it comes to pushing an agenda in the media. Surely the almost complete surrender of the media to Obama illustrates that quite well. It was the political colour of the media personnel and a few bucks from Oprah, Barbra and Sean.

Maybe the oil, coal and gas industries know they have nothing to worry about. The energy policies being proposed by the warmers would cause economic disaster. How much do you hear about biofuels these days? That was the fashionable catchphrase for a while, until everyone realised that using food for fuel would lead to mass starvation around the world. Even Gore has admitted that the ethanol craze was stupid. I wonder what else in his list of things we have to do is unsound. He is unlikely to admit to wind power not meeting our needs. He is too heavily invested in that industry. Although he insists his investment is to encourage the industry, not to make a profit from it.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:07 AM   #19
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

We are almost certainly affecting the climate, the question is just how much and what will the consequences be, and anyone who claims to have the answer is most likely full of it. The climate models are certified garbage.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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The climate models are certified garbage.
it is not like mathematics or physics where everything is straight forward. in geosciences too many factors come together which makes it nearly impossible to make things perfect.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Universities, governments and the Nobel Committee.
since when do these institution beat out cold cash when it comes to placing opinions in the media?

it rather seems like parts of these three are the only incoruptible ones left on this planet, thank god. the rest can be bribed, shut down, derailed or blanked out by that very cold cash.

yes, people disagree on this subject. but that's people. scientists in general simply don't. i'm going with those guys here, sorry.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

Why not go with the scientists that want to publish data that shows different results from the Gore fanatics? You prefer to go with the ones that send emails discussing how to make sure the only published data is the data that supports their agenda. I do not think it is science at all when the agenda is set and the data is made to fit it.

I can't give links but my newspaper today said that last year governments around the world contributed $80 billion to research on the effects of global warming. That will keep a lot of climatologists in business.

Maybe German media is different, but in the US the media is overwhelmingly pro-left. So your cold cash argument does not hold water for me.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

I'm gonna be honest, since the first post I really don't know what you're talking about, but I made this thread becuase I thought this organisation had a good message.

The earth is always changing, it is completely normal that the climate is changing, becuase it has always happened, but I think and from what I've heard, all the pollution is making the world change faster and all the living beings in the earth are not ready for it.

I guess when these changes happened "more naturally" everything started adapting at the same pace that the climate was changing.

But like I said, I don't know what you're talking about
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Why not go with the scientists that want to publish data that shows different results from the Gore fanatics? You prefer to go with the ones that send emails discussing how to make sure the only published data is the data that supports their agenda.
do you really think you'd stand a chance if we'd start a head-to-head re pr atrocities between "my guys" and "your guys"? you're clinging on some emails while "your guys" even officially get sponsored by exxon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
I do not think it is science at all when the agenda is set and the data is made to fit it.
me neither. but what i detest even more are hidden agendas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
I can't give links but my newspaper today said that last year governments around the world contributed $80 billion to research on the effects of global warming. That will keep a lot of climatologists in business.
yeah, the secret circle of climatologists (what number are we talking about here anyways?) beats out big oil. right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
Maybe German media is different, but in the US the media is overwhelmingly pro-left. So your cold cash argument does not hold water for me.
i'm going with maher here: over the last 30 years the left in the u.s. has moved to the right and the right has moved to a mental hospital. the u.s. media is pretty much centric, much of it would be considered right-wing in europe (gun control, foreign policy, STILL no consensus on health care WITHIN the democrats etc.).

it's all about pr. if pr departments can start wars (first gulf war and so on) pretty much on their own, they can obviously manipulate opinions on "cold" issues such as the climate change as well. pr departments prefer cold cash though instead of university seats or nobel prizes.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
since when do these institution beat out cold cash when it comes to placing opinions in the media?

it rather seems like parts of these three are the only incoruptible ones left on this planet, thank god. the rest can be bribed, shut down, derailed or blanked out by that very cold cash.
Dude, there are no perfectly incorruptible institutions on this planet.

In the words of Noel Coward: "everybody in the world is bent".
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:43 AM   #26
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post

yes, people disagree on this subject. but that's people. scientists in general simply don't. i'm going with those guys here, sorry.
It is beginning to look like ''those guys'' you went with are guys that decided that ''peer review'' meant reviewing each other's papers and preventing publication of data that contradicted their ''story''.

No wonder the Gore camp began to say some years ago that the debate was over. What they meant was they don't want their data made public.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:53 AM   #27
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
yeah, the secret circle of climatologists (what number are we talking about here anyways?) beats out big oil. right.


The problem was not Exxon, but Enron, Gore's partner in the scamming game. In the end though Enron itself was the scam.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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Plain wrong, very poor comment. Several things are to be considered in recent climate changes surveys, like the scale, data (direct and indirect), new factors introduced by society that affect the climate and others. Human activity is changing the global and local climates and its consequences are being predicted as very severe. Climate change is not a theory or possibilty anymore, it's a fact according to scientific community.
Guess you were just a couple of days early with that post. Now we know that we know nothing. The EAU group have scammed the world.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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who cares about this shit, it's all a fraud, climate have changed back and forth in countless occasions since Earth exists and it will do so many times more in spite of all UN assemblies and Goresque fakery in the world.
100% agree.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:59 AM   #30
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Default Re: Hopenhaguen.org UN Climate Change Conference

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yeah, the secret circle of climatologists (what number are we talking about here anyways?) beats out big oil. right.


Clearly a very small number. But for a world that was dying for climate change to be true and for a change in the world order, it was enough to fool most people.
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