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Old 03-19-2015, 10:36 AM   #1
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Default Media kudos and brickbats

With the resurgence of Oz tennis, the media coverage has increased. A lot of it is very good. But there have been some awful zingers as well, and I thought it would be nice to try and keep track of some of the best and worst.

To kick of the collection, can I nominate this zinger from Leo Schlink in the Herald Sun today (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/te...227269390263):

Quote:
In current form, Tomic almost certainly will win the John Newcombe Medal — bar grand slam heroics from Nick Kyrgios or Sam Stosur — and will be seeded at May’s French Open.
Lol - A QF at a masters is a very nice run to be sure. But it certainly doesn't overtake a GS QF. If he wins the title, then we'll be talking. But it's only halfway through March...

Anyone else seen any greats (one way or the other) that deserve to be memorialised?!
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

That very same article contains another line of interest regarding Kokkinakis:

Quote:
The Adelaide baseliner is now on the cusp of direct entry to all three of the season’s remaining majors — French Open, Wimbledon and US Open.
Now explaining how rankings work to non-followers of the sport is tricky in just one paragraph, but if Thanasi is apparently assured, I'm sure Sam, Marinko and James can also rest easy that they'll get MD to each of the remaining slams too...
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:09 AM   #3
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Your post and not that quote deserves the treatment you are going on about. Is it really that difficult to understand how a Masters QF, Grand Slam 4R, 2 DC Wins, 1 ATP 250 SF, 1 ATP 250QF and 3 ATP 250 QF might outweigh a GS QF that was achieved by defeating Seppi in the 4th round while Tomic had a red hot Berdych. If you are going to be an arse and make a mockery of someone's work then at least do it when you're right.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmf07 View Post
Your post and not that quote deserves the treatment you are going on about. Is it really that difficult to understand how a Masters QF, Grand Slam 4R, 2 DC Wins, 1 ATP 250 SF, 1 ATP 250QF and 3 ATP 250 QF might outweigh a GS QF that was achieved by defeating Seppi in the 4th round while Tomic had a red hot Berdych. If you are going to be an arse and make a mockery of someone's work then at least do it when you're right.
Oh dear, I guess Bernie's fans a feeling a bit tender today.

Are you really seriously arguing that anyone's results to mid-March are enough to call it for the Newks this year already?

[edit: Worth noting that at this time last year, the 2014 winner was ranked 222 and had an AO R2 and first round loss in a 250 and 2 DC losses to his name]

My fundamental point was that it was just a tad premature to call it in mid-March (particularly given his subsequent withdrawal from IW and possibly Miami. Who knows how long the complications of that wisdom tooth surgery could last???!).

I'm not actually suggesting that Kyrgios has it over Tomic at this point. Though yes, I do tend to think slam results will outweigh lesser competitions when it comes down to it, unless there are actual titles involved - or even if they are - given Nick winning it over Stosur who had a higher ranking, singles titles and more to her name last year.

But really just laughing at the idea that he already has it in the bag when Kokkinakis for example, not yet even in the top 100, came close to beating him in a Masters fourth round and also has a DC win. As Talk on Tennis points out above, anything can happen between now and the next Slams and more!

The bottom line is that the year is but young.

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Old 03-20-2015, 06:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kateoz View Post
Oh dear, I guess Bernie's fans a feeling a bit tender today.

Are you really seriously arguing that anyone's results to mid-March are enough to call it for the Newks this year already?

[edit: Worth noting that at this time last year, the 2014 winner was ranked 222 and had an AO R2 and first round loss in a 250 and 2 DC losses to his name]

My fundamental point was that it was just a tad premature to call it in mid-March (particularly given his subsequent withdrawal from IW and possibly Miami. Who knows how long the complications of that wisdom tooth surgery could last???!).

I'm not actually suggesting that Kyrgios has it over Tomic at this point. Though yes, I do tend to think slam results will outweigh lesser competitions when it comes down to it, unless there are actual titles involved - or even if they are - given Nick winning it over Stosur who had a higher ranking, singles titles and more to her name last year.

But really just laughing at the idea that he already has it in the bag when Kokkinakis for example, not yet even in the top 100, came close to beating him in a Masters fourth round and also has a DC win. As Talk on Tennis points out above, anything can happen between now and the next Slams and more!

The bottom line is that the year is but young.
He isn't calling the award already and the first three words of that quote are a dead give-away. He is saying that if the medal was judged on current form then Tomic would almost certainly win it and that's a fair comment. If he was calling it already he would not have used the words 'in current form' to begin his sentence.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmf07 View Post
He isn't calling the award already and the first three words of that quote are a dead give-away. He is saying that if the medal was judged on current form then Tomic would almost certainly win it and that's a fair comment. If he was calling it already he would not have used the words 'in current form' to begin his sentence.
Oh come on. Why even mention the medal? And why suggest that only three people (Tomic, Kyrgios and Stosur) could even possibly be in the field? Why talk about form at all when the medal generally goes to someone who has done something spectacular, not just get to a few quarters?

And as Talkontennis notes, why claim that results at this stage guarantee a place in the slams for the rest of the year?!

Crap journalism at its worst.

But if you don't like my critical approach, suggest some good example we should laud.
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

I don't get it Kate.
Are you more annoyed at Leo Schlink that he said Tomic is the best performing aussie this year, or that he only gives kyrgios or Stosur a hope at doing something special at a grand slam?

The article isn't really that bad, I just think you have a difference of opinion on the subject. (However no one can dispute that Tomic is by far the best performing aussie this year, hands down) (And no, I'm not a Tomic fan, but credit where due)

I do believe that Kokk and Kyrgios' performances may have woken Tomic up and realised he wants to be the #1 aussie player though.
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

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Originally Posted by Leaderman View Post
I don't get it Kate.
Are you more annoyed at Leo Schlink that he said Tomic is the best performing aussie this year, or that he only gives kyrgios or Stosur a hope at doing something special at a grand slam?

The article isn't really that bad, I just think you have a difference of opinion on the subject. (However no one can dispute that Tomic is by far the best performing aussie this year, hands down) (And no, I'm not a Tomic fan, but credit where due)

I do believe that Kokk and Kyrgios' performances may have woken Tomic up and realised he wants to be the #1 aussie player though.
Nup it's not the substance, it is the shoddy journalism that annoys me.
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kateoz View Post
Oh come on. Why even mention the medal? And why suggest that only three people (Tomic, Kyrgios and Stosur) could even possibly be in the field? Why talk about form at all when the medal generally goes to someone who has done something spectacular, not just get to a few quarters?

And as Talkontennis notes, why claim that results at this stage guarantee a place in the slams for the rest of the year?!

Crap journalism at its worst.

But if you don't like my critical approach, suggest some good example we should laud.
Journalists do it all the time with references like that. It's a simple quote that somehow you have completely misinterpreted. Schlink's quote about Kokkinakis is correct as well. Kokkinakis is on the cusp of direct entry to all three slams. He only has 48 points to defend until the entry deadline for the US Open.
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:31 AM   #10
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Quote:
Journalists do it all the time with references like that.


Quote:
Schlink's quote about Kokkinakis is correct as well. Kokkinakis is on the cusp of direct entry to all three slams. He only has 48 points to defend until the entry deadline for the US Open.
Plus 30 or so he needs to actually get into top 100.

Glad to know you are so enthusiastic about Thanasi's prospects of getting through qualifying plus winning two rounds at Miami, or getting a wc and making r3 in order to make RG though (he is taking a break after Miami).

Maybe he will, but personally I think that is a pretty big ask for a kid who must surely be running out of puff by now. But I guess 'being on the cusp' is another bit of 'journalistic license' that is done 'all the time'...

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Old 03-21-2015, 04:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

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Originally Posted by Kateoz View Post




Plus 30 or so he needs to actually get into top 100.

Glad to know you are so enthusiastic about Thanasi's prospects of getting through qualifying plus winning two rounds at Miami, or getting a wc and making r3 in order to make RG though (he is taking a break after Miami).

Maybe he will, but personally I think that is a pretty big ask for a kid who must surely be running out of puff by now. But I guess 'being on the cusp' is another bit of 'journalistic license' that is done 'all the time'...
The gift that keeps on giving. He is defending no points until the entry deadlines for the French Open and Wimbledon. One win in qualies in Miami and he is a good chance of making the MD for those two slams. Look at the cut-off rankings in previous slams. Not assured but the odds would definitely be in his favour. Then 48 points until US Open deadline which is four months away. He didn't say Kokkinakis is currently guaranteed direct entry, he said he is on the cusp of achieving that, and if that isn't on the cusp then I have absolutely no idea what is.
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:36 AM   #12
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Honestly, are you the author or source for this thing? Because otherwise I don't understand why you are defending the indefensible!

Let's look at the facts.

The cut off last year for RG was 102, with three more getting in as alts. This year the cut off is likely to be a little higher as there are quite a few players likely to be in on protected player status.

Kokk is currently at 107 (Kavcic jumped over him overnight). So he is certainly not in yet.

But over the next couple of two weeks pretty much everyone ranked behind him is playing Miami Q, Miami MD, and/or challengers in the usual last minute scramble to make MD.

It is pretty much inevitable that if he just stays where he is at the moment point wise he will drop back quite a few places in the rankings.

One qualies win almost certainly won't be anywhere near like enough.

And he isn't entered in a 'last chance' challenger for the week after Miami so if he crashes out early there (far from impossible), he won't make it (short of playing qualifying and/or last minute wc and winning).

He may get there and I certainly hope he does but it is very far from inevitable.

His odds of making md for Wimbledon and USO are much better, but that isn't what the article was claiming.
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Old 03-21-2015, 01:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Now the latest entry for a brickbat has to go to Todd Woodbridge..

Bourchier - Safin comparison

He reminds me of [Yevgeny] Kafelnikov or [Marat] Safin in the way he plays, that is what he is capable of.

Now Harry maybe deserves a little more kudos than he has got on here at some points but Safin...

http://www.examiner.com.au/story/295...chier-as-aces/
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

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Now the latest entry for a brickbat has to go to Todd Woodbridge..

Bourchier - Safin comparison

He reminds me of [Yevgeny] Kafelnikov or [Marat] Safin in the way he plays, that is what he is capable of.

Now Harry maybe deserves a little more kudos than he has got on here at some points but Safin...

http://www.examiner.com.au/story/295...chier-as-aces/
Indeedy. Worthy of Coric's when I play well I'm like Djokovic/bad like Murray comment, but a bit alarming to have it fall from the lips of Todd!
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Media kudos and brickbats

Are you actually reading all of what I am saying or are you just a delusional poster who thinks they can do no wrong and spins ridiculous arguments to confirm this? First of all I will mention it again. Schlink said Kokkinakis was on the cusp. Define what on the cusp is because I am honestly wondering if you actually know what it means. He is not saying Kokkinakis is guaranteed entry because everyone knows he isn't at the moment. But it is quite clear that Kokkinakis is incredibly close to achieving this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kateoz View Post
Honestly, are you the author or source for this thing? Because otherwise I don't understand why you are defending the indefensible!
No. I would take a job as Todd Woodbridge's Hair Stylist before I would take a job working for News Corp. I'm defending it because it's pathetic to carry on like some sort of expert and make a big deal out of someone's mistake when they haven't even made one in the first place. You run down certain players on this forum and now you have opened a thread to do the same thing for the media. Don't pretend that you want to laud their efforts and if you did then you are incredibly naive. Anyone who visits internet forums would know how these threads generally go. Look at how the thread has gone so far with the three examples from three different users.[/quote]

Quote:
The cut off last year for RG was 102, with three more getting in as alts. This year the cut off is likely to be a little higher as there are quite a few players likely to be in on protected player status.

Kokk is currently at 107 (Kavcic jumped over him overnight). So he is certainly not in yet.
Sure there might be a couple of more players using protected rankings just like there were also players using protected rankings last season. In hindsight maybe he will need to win another match to have the odds stacked in his favour but he certainly doesn't need to progress to Round 3 of the draw to have a favourable chance of making the MD. To say he has to is simply exaggerating. There will be alts who get in just like in every Slam. As I said before and I have said in my previous two posts, no one is saying he is certainly in, but he is on the cusp.

Quote:
But over the next couple of two weeks pretty much everyone ranked behind him is playing Miami Q, Miami MD, and/or challengers in the usual last minute scramble to make MD.

It is pretty much inevitable that if he just stays where he is at the moment point wise he will drop back quite a few places in the rankings.

One qualies win almost certainly won't be anywhere near like enough.

And he isn't entered in a 'last chance' challenger for the week after Miami so if he crashes out early there (far from impossible), he won't make it (short of playing qualifying and/or last minute wc and winning).
Players will leapfrog him trying to get into the MD. But what do you think happened last year? Hint: the same thing. And what do you think will happen to those points accrued by other players from last year. Not too difficult to figure that one out I would think. But to mention this balancing effect wouldn't suit your argument would it?

Quote:
He may get there and I certainly hope he does but it is very far from inevitable.
Who is saying it is inevitable. I will say those three special words again, he is 'on the cusp'.

Quote:
His odds of making md for Wimbledon and USO are much better, but that isn't what the article was claiming.
So originally your central argument in regards to this was 'why claim that results at this stage guarantee a place in the slams for the rest of the year' but now you're saying that his odds of making the US Open and Wimbledon further on in the year are much better than the other slam earlier on in the year.

This is the last I'm going to say in regards to this topic because I have more important things to do than debate something over the internet with someone who is so blinded by bias they are struggling with basic comprehension. It's shit like this why I avoid regularly posting in GM. I also imagine the other members of the forum aren't too keen on reading all of this which basically revolves around all of two sentences from the one article.
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