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Old 10-22-2014, 09:45 AM   #1
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Default TT Changes 2015

We now proceed to the next step of the changes period. Here in this thread, players and managers can discuss the ideas which were brought up in the suggestions thread.

The suggestions are ordered by numbers. You can discuss each of the topics and also reply to posts of other players.

It's not necessary to post about all the topics, but the players' participation is important for any change to be made.

COMMITMENTS

1) Allowing multiple commitments: players should be able to commit to more than one tournaments being held in the same week (allowing lower ranked players to see their position in the entry lists by the first deadline before deciding on which tournament to play), but must withdraw from all the events but one before the final deadline.
Current rule: players must commit to one tournament only.

2) Doubles deadline: to be the same as in singles (Sunday 6 PM CEST a week before the tournament).
Current rule: the doubles deadline is the final deadline, usually on the Friday right before the start of the tournament.

ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: SEs given if the player reaches the semi-final.
Current rule: Players should still be alive in the previous tournament when qualifying of the following event starts.

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time.
Current rule: Late entries are ordered by ranking.

DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw (ex: first alternate/LL is placed against the lowest ranked player & last alternate/LL is placed against the highest ranked player whose opponent doesn't send picks).
Current rule: alternates/LL are placed randomly.

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: Players who have a first round bye and then fail to send picks for the second round should be replaced by the next Alternate/LL.
Current rule: no alternates/LL after the first round.

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots: In doubles, if all 4 players send picks in one of the matches and only one player of each team send picks in the other match, this second match shouldn't be considered a live match and the two teams of the first match should qualify to the MD.
Current rule: each team must beat their opponent to reach the MD.

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments: every challenger champion gets a direct entry into a pre-determined 250 tournament (played 2 weeks after the title).
Current rule: no WCs.

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments: a WC to be given to a winner of challengers played in pre-estabilished weeks prior to a 64-player tournament (all Masters 1000 events + Barcelona, Queens, Hamburg, Washington, Winston-Salem). The player who wins a challenger and scores more points in these weeks earns the WC.
Current rule: no WCs.
Quote:
Example: WC for week 10 and 12

All players who won challenger till week 7 are in race for 2 WC. Number 1 get for IW, number 2 for Mimai.

WC for week 15 and 16

All players who won challenger between week 8 and 12 are in race for 2 WC. Number 1 for Monte Carlo and number 2 for Barcelona.

WC for week 18 and 19

All players who won challenger between week 13 and 15 are in race for 2 WC. Number 1 for Madrid and number 2 for Rome

...
TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker: Incorrect picks/Number of sets given to the winners to be used as a TB step after the Number of correct SRs.
a. Number of sets given to the winners: sum of the number of sets given to the winners of all the matches, regardless of the opponent's picks (current rule used in the SR shootout - set to the winner). The player who gives more sets to the winners wins the match.
b. Incorrect picks: comparing the matches where both players picked the incorrect winner only (a point is counted when a player has a closer SR than the other - 2-1 > 2-0; 3-1 > 3-0; 3-2 > 3-0). The player who has more points wins the match.
c. Current rule: no.
Quote:
OOP:
Blake vs Saretta - Blake wins 2-0
Ljubo vs Alejo - Ljubo wins 2-0
Santoro vs Kratochvil - Santoro wins 2-0
Becuzzi vs Djokovic - Becuzzi wins 2-0
Corretja vs Nadal - Corretja wins 2-0
Harrison vs Querrey - Harrison wins 2-0

Player A (2 correct pick, 2 correct SR)
Blake 2-0
Alejo 2-1
Kratochvil 2-0
Djokovic 2-0
Nadal 2-0
Harrison 2-0

Player B (2 correct pick, 2 correct SR)
Saretta 2-1
Alejo 2-0
Kratochvil 2-0
Becuzzi 2-0
Corretja 2-0
Querrey 2-1

a. Number of sets given to the winner:

Player A (5 sets to the winner):
Blake 2-0 (2)
Alejo 2-1 (1)
Kratochvil 2-0 (0)
Djokovic 2-0 (0)
Nadal 2-0 (0)
Harrison 2-0 (2)

Player B (6 sets to the winner):
Saretta 2-1 (1)
Alejo 2-0 (0)
Kratochvil 2-0 (0)
Becuzzi 2-0 (2)
Corretja 2-0 (2)
Querrey 2-1 (1)

Player B wins (6-5)

b. Incorrect picks (2 matches are compared: Ljubo vs Alejo, Santoro vs Kratochvil):
Ljubo vs Alejo -> 1 point for player A (2-1 vs 2-0)
Santoro vs Kratochvil -> same picks.

Player A wins (1-0)

c. Current rule: no decision. Proceed to the next TB step.
11) Tie-break structure: TF's TB steps (ISR + 3 TB matches) to be used instead of the MTF's (SR Shootout)
*Incorrect picks/Srs/sets to the winner - discussed in the previous topic.
a. TB matches:
- comparison of correct winner > correct SR > number of correct set scores > number of correct set scores in the correct order > closer number of games difference > number of correct order of sets (if both players picked the winner) & comparison of sets to the winner (match by match) > number of games given to the winner (if both players picked the loser).
- match by match - 3 TB matches.
b. Current rule (SR shootout):
- comparison of correct winner > correct SR > incorrect SR when both players picked the loser.
- match by match - all the matches in the OOP.

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order: Bonus of 2 points if the correct scoreline is predicted in the correct set - Old PTS rule
Current rule: no points.
Quote:
Ex:
Player A picked Nadal 62 64 & Player B picked Nadal 64 62. The result is Nadal 62 63.

Current rule - TIE
Player A: Nadal 62 64 (7 points)
Player B: Nadal 64 62 (7 points)

Proposal - Player A wins
Player A: Nadal 62 64 (9 points - bonus of 2 for predicting 62 to happen on set 1)
Player B: Nadal 64 62 (7 points)
13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB:
a. Before PTS (GD > PTS > CB).
b. After PTS (PTS > GD > CB).
c. Current rule: GD is only used after all the possible TB's (PTS, tournament CB, CB from the previous rounds, SRs/Shootout/PTS from the previous rounds, then GD).

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB.
Current rule: if the Tournament CB is tied, the CB from the previous round decides the outcome of the match.

15) Byes & first round picks: A second round match shouldn't be decided by CB in case it involves a player who received a bye in the first round.
Current rule: the match is decided on CB.

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: there shouldn't be more than 4 PTS/GD matches in first rounds.
Current rule: All matches are PTS/GD to avoid potential ranking decisions (players do not have to send set scores if they think their match won't be decided on PTS).

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision: in case both players pick the loser of the match, the match should not count in the Shootout.
Current rule: the player who gives more sets to the correct winner of the match has the shootout advantage.

PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles.
Current rule: the same set of picks is used for singles and doubles.

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager: under the following circunstances.
a. Joint management in Slams (ex: sending singles picks to the doubles manager).
b. When someone other than the manager posts the OOP.
Current rule: (a) Up to the GS managers. (b) Picks not accepted.

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?).
Current rule: deadline.

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: in case the manager sets an early deadline to be able to post differences, picks sent by the missing players after the early deadline but before the real deadline should be accepted. The manager must withhold the differences of matches involving the missing players and their opponents.
Current rule: no picks accepted after the deadline.

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: there should be a minimum of 4 matches.
Current rule: manager's decision.

OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: futures to be played during the off-season with less points awarded (27-15-8-3-1, as in real life 15 K tournaments) and top 30/40/50 players not being able to participate.
Current rule: no tournaments played during the off-season.

24) Managers & Tournaments: managers shouldn't be able to play their own tournament unless it's a Grand Slam, ATP Masters 1000 or the only ATP 500/250 event of the week.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

COMMITMENTS

1) Allowing multiple commitments: Honestly I think this would be a horrible change. It would work for the people who are organised, however lots of people are not or don't have the time. I can see this one having many issues if it gets passed.

2) Doubles deadline: disagree, only because of the people who don't have regular partners. You see people asking for partners for a long period of time.

ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: Disagree, final at best

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time. Agree


DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw Agree

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: Players who have a first round bye and then fail to send picks for the second round should be replaced by the next Alternate/LL.
My proposal so agree It only happens in events with Byes....

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots: Agree

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments: Agree

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments: Agree


TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker: Disagree

11) Tie-break structure: - Disagree

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order: Agree - only to be used in a PTS situation though?

13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB: Neutral... I don't mind the way it is so whatever, with perhaps the change suggested in 12 instead...

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB. disagree

15) Byes & first round picks: disagree...we all check on the first day to see if we are playing... not that hard to send

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: disagree, not that hard to type a generic score if you can't be bothered.

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision: disagree

PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles. disagree, perhaps only in Grand Slams where there are two managers

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager: agree for both a and b

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?). Really??? No. All you are doing is making the deadline 5 minutes later... and then what happens if you press send at 10.05 and its not there until 10.06... same problem. No.

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: disagree

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: But yet we allow 3 matches to decide a final?


OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: disagree, exhibition only. Need to give TazWarrior some rest...

24) Managers & Tournaments: again my suggestion so agree
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

Commitments

1. Really don't like this idea, overcomplicates what is a fairly simple system.

2. Like this idea. Nothing worse than being in doubles MD at the time of the first deadline and then getting outshot.

Entry list

3. Disagree because it will massively increase the usage of special exemptions.

4. Agree

Draws

5. No opinion

6. Agreed. It's a strange rule but that's how ATP works.

7. Agree

Wild cards

8. Agree. At the moment it is quite difficult to work you way up to 250 level. I like this idea a lot.

9. Again, I like this idea.

TB system

No opinion on any of these.

Picks and deadlines

18. Disagree, players must use the same set of picks.

19. The person who incorrectly receives the picks should be allowed to forward them to the correct manager.

20. Disagree, it's a deadline for a reason.

21. Disagree. The manager sets the deadline at the time of the start of play or as close to it as possible.

22. Leave it up to the manager.

Other questions

23. I'd be in favour but with very strict rules to prevent vulturing. Maybe run them only for players ranked outside the top 200 or run them as exhibition events.

24. Agree
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Old 10-22-2014, 02:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
23. I'd be in favour but with very strict rules to prevent vulturing. Maybe run them only for players ranked outside the top 200 or run them as exhibition events.
Futures are being run in the off season as exhibitions.

valac222 has already put up the commitment sheet for week 48
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

Commitments

1. Bad idea, it can lead to confusions and it wouldn't make a big change.

2. For me it's OK, but it'd damage players who don't have regular partners. So no.

Entry list

3. No, as TT is almost unpredictable there would be a lot of SE and that would generate problems.

4. Yes, good idea.

Draws

5. Not neccesary. So no this time.

6. Agree

7. Disagree

Wild cards

8. Hmm nope. Gifting a WC for only one tournament doesn't seem fair.

9. Definitely agree, good idea.

TB system

10. No, it can lead to stupid results as someone said in the other thread.

11. No

12. Yes, please.

13. GD is more random than CB, players usually don't think about the scorelines of their PTS picks. Bad idea.

14. Great idea. Yes.

15. No

16. Yes, totally agree.

17. Don't know.

Picks and deadlines

18. No, current rule is fine.

19. As Dangermouse says, the person who incorrectly receives the picks should be allowed to forward them to the correct manager. So yes.

20. Disagree, I don't like the idea of an arbitrary rule, it can lead to confusion easily. Deadline is deadline.

21. This would make a huge problem for managers, who already have a big work. No.

22. Current rule is OK for me.

Other questions

23. Yes. But with strict guidelines of course.

24. Totally agree.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

1. Current commitment is good enough. It can be a nightmare for managers cross-checking ELs just to avoid double commitments
2. Yes. I don't think it's fair to have players who are in MD after 1st deadline and get relegated to Q after a whole week of waiting.
3. Current rule
4. New rule - makes more sense as the commitment time is more important than the ranking
5. New rule
6. No. I don't think it's fair to the top LLs if they lose 1r but the lower LL can get in second round directly.
7. Current
8. YES. It's tough for challenger players to break through the challenger land and build up rankings on ATP 250.
9. YES. Similar reason. A big incentive for players to do their best playing CH picking relatively unknown players.
10. New rule (b) - I agree to the ISR because it rewards the player who gives the real winner a set despite both of them picking the loser
11. New rule.
12. YES. Predicting the correct score in the correct set should be rewarded.
13 - 17. No opinion.
18. Yes. There are always situations when players are leading in singles but trailing in doubles, or vice versa. Different strategies are needed hence different picks should be accepted.
19. Yes to both.
20. No. This would only create chaos.
21. New rule. It's a bit unfair to DQ players when the matches haven't even taken place
22. New rule. Manager's decision is a bit too vague
23. Yes. Players outside top 150 can have chances to win some points.
24. No
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

I will vote when I'm back from Istanbul, but I want to say big to keqtqiadv, every time during off-season he is doing maybe 99% of all work
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

Just to be clear, all of these will be going up for vote, but we are only going to share opinions about them here?
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

COMMITMENTS

1) Allowing multiple commitments: It's on WTA TT and I think it's good, we should try it here and see how it will work.

2) Doubles deadline: to be the same as in singles!

ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: Current rule should stay.

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time.
New rule should be IN, I like it!

DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw
I really don't care. But I think it's ok now.

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: current rule should stay.

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots:
Current rule: each team must beat their opponent to reach the MD.

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments:
Current rule: no WCs.

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments:
Current rule: no WCs.


TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker: Yes, this should be changed and adding ISRs is a good idea!


11) Tie-break structure: we should get rid of shootout...

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order: Current rule: no points.


13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB:
I like this idea.

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB.
Current rule should stay.

15) Byes & first round picks: A second round match shouldn't be decided by CB in case it involves a player who received a bye in the first round.!

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: there shouldn't be more than 4 PTS/GD matches in first rounds.

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision:Current rule: the player who gives more sets to the correct winner of the match has the shootout advantage.

PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles.
YES YES YES!!!

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager:
current rule

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?).
NO, current rule.

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: Current rule: no picks accepted after the deadline.

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: there should be a minimum of 4 matches. Yes, 4 is a minimum.

OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: I like how it's on the TF, so there are tournaments in off-season but top 30 players in singles and doubles are LEs.

24) Managers & Tournaments: managers shouldn't be able to play their own tournament unless it's a Grand Slam, ATP Masters 1000 or the only ATP 500/250 event of the week.

No.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

COMMITMENTS

1) Allowing multiple commitments: disagree

2) Doubles deadline: disagree

ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: disagree

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time. agree

DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw disagree

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: agree

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots: disagree

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments: disagree

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments: disagree

TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker: disagree

11) Tie-break structure: disagree

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order: disagree

13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB: disagree

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB. disagree

15) Byes & first round picks: agree

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: disagree

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision: agree
PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles. agree

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager: agree with a

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?). disagree

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: agree

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: agree

OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: agree, and top 50 shouldn't be allowed to play

24) Managers & Tournaments: agree
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

COMMITMENTS

1) Allowing multiple commitments: No.

2) Doubles deadline: should remain


ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: I am neutral
4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time. Agreed (Disagree, I will have to reorganize my EL maker )


DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw Actually it protect managers. (I will list now who say no and I promise they will get "absolutely randomly" the hardest possible LL under my management.)

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: No alternates/LL after the first round.

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots: Doubles with 1 player sending are out of tourney.

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments: No WCs.

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments: No WCs.


TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker: The player who gives more sets to the winners wins the match.


11) Tie-break structure: Honestly I prefer Tf TB system, but it would be a huge change here. So, no.

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order: Neutral. Any kind of PTS decision is "heartbreaking"


13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB: b. After PTS (PTS > GD > CB).

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB.Agreed


15) Byes & first round picks: How should it be solvd if not by CB?

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: I have seen PTS6 decision, so all should be PTS. Actually I cannot see the reason why only 1 in the other rounds. All matches should be PTS to eliminate CB decisions.

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision: the player who gives more sets to the correct winner of the match has the shootout advantage.

PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles. Agreed

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager: No

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?). No, unless You set 2minutes and 38 seconds timelimits.
Current rule: deadline.

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: Agreed. If manager has to leave early then co-mgr should post diffs on time (unless all players agree in advance on an early diffs posting)

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: There should be a minimum of 4 matches.


OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: Futures to be played during the off-season with less points awarded (27-15-8-3-1) and top 30/40/50 players are automatic LEs

24) Managers & Tournaments: It is not fair to the managers. Tourneys are picked 6-8 weeks before. eg. I will definately not miss the opportunity to catch the last MD position of an ATP250.

Last edited by valac222 : 10-23-2014 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

1) Allowing multiple commitments
NO. It may benefit some players but wouldn't necessarily help everyone (players who would have made the MD with the current rules).

2) Doubles deadline to be the same as in singles
NO. Changing this rule means that players who choose their tournament a few hours before the deadline will have no time to find doubles partners as regular entries and players whose partners decide to change tournaments will have to play doubles as LE. Don't see any benefits here.

3) SEs given if the player reaches the semi-final
NO. ATP SEs are given to players who aren't able to play the qualifying of the next tournament. As the TT players are able to play both qualies and the finals of a tournament, I'm not sure this rule should even exist. But as a reward, it's ok to have it for the finalsits. SF I think it would be too much.

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time
NO. The period for changes has always been a valid commitment period which I think is not supposed to be a race of who sees the updated list and changes tournaments first.

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order
YES. In principle I think it should be random, but I guess it's better if the order is pre-determined as it avoids problems with late replacements (after some matches have ended) or replacements involving the manager's opponent.

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL
NO. As the number of potential replacements would be limited to the players with byes, I'm not sure if the LL/ALt would bother to send picks. Besides, the only players who would benefit from this change are alternates who commit after the final deadline.

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots
NO. Players should win beat their opponents to advance.

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments
Still need to think it through, but atm I'd say NO, as any WC's would necessarily take the spot from someone else in the draw.

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments
Same as 8.

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker
a. Number of sets given to the winners
b. Incorrect picks
c. Current rule

YES (A). Of all the potential changes, this one is the most important imo. It's already part of the shootout decisions, so I think it's logical to add it as a TB step after the number of SRs. But it has to count all the sets given to the winners when the player picks the loser, regardless of the opponent's picks (A).
If not, I think we should stay with the current rule, as I can't agree with (B). A player who picks more sets to the winners shouldn't be able to lose the match. I'd understand the idea of more closer picks if all the other picks were considered (correct winner > wrong winner, correct SR > wrong SR). The SR is counted when the player picks the correct winner and the opponent doesn't, so I don't see why the set to the winner shouldn't.

11) Tie-break structure:
a. TB matches
b. Current rule (SR shootout)
NO. Current rule. The shootout is not perfect, but I like it anyway. I think it's better than the alternative method.

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order
NO. I'm not actually against this rule, but it was like that in the past and players have decided to change this rule to the current one. The points would increase the importance of predicting who serves first in the match, which is not necessarily bad, but it is one of the reasons why the rule was changed back then.

13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB:
a. Before PTS (GD > PTS > CB).
b. After PTS (PTS > GD > CB).
c. Current rule

NO. Current rule. I used to think otherwise, but I'm now against it. PTS plays its role by being a TB step that doesn't allow the match to go straight to CB and isn't decisive enough to ensure that a match will be decided on a single difference of scores. I think the balance between these two points is ok with the current rule, so I wouldn't change it (perhaps would just add the +2 points of topic 12 to make the PTS decision a bit more likely to happen).

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB.
YES. I'm not sure if I like it or not, but it seems logical to have this TB step. If not after Tournament CB, at least after the previous rounds CB (before the TB CB).

15) Byes & first round picks (#cb#)
NO. It's not very difficult to send picks for one round, but in order to break a tie with second round picks only, players with byes & their opponents would either: a. have their match decided on 1 GD match and if tied on ranking or; b. have to send PTSs for all the 2nd round matches which would only apply to them. I don't think it's fair to decide matches of the same round on different TB rules, so I stay with the current rule.

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds
NO. I don't see the point here. The PTSs are there to avoid ranking decisions. It's nearly impossible to happen in first rounds of Grand Slams, but it can surely happen in rounds where all the matches are too easy to predict. Players can always send SRs only if they think the decision won't happen on PTS (perhaps the manager should stress that in the OOP).

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision
NO. This was the rule in the past and it got changed. The current rule is fine now.
If this change gets approved, the +2 PTS points for each set predicted to the incorrect winner will regain its importance (it's irrelevant with the current rules).

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles.
NO. I think the current rule is much better. Tipping for both singles and doubles is one of the challenges the current game presents to the players, I like that. It also reinforces the idea of picking winners (not a winner and a loser to create a win-win situation). And receiving different sets of picks could be more work for the managers.

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager:
a. Joint management in Slams (ex: sending singles picks to the doubles manager).
b. When someone other than the manager posts the OOP.


NO to a. Manager's decision is fine. But I think it's better if the GSs are managed by a single person when possible to avoid this problem.
NO to b. It's not very difficult to send picks to the correct person. I'd prefer to accept the picks if the they were forwarded before the deadline, but as it would depend on the person who posts the OOP I'm not sure it's the best decision.

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?).
NO. It's good as it is now. And if the bonus PTS points are approved, it would be even more important to predict the player who serves first in the PTS match. These additional minutes could give the player the chance to see the coin toss and send scores accordingly.

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline.
NO. Once the differences are posted, no picks should be accepted anymore.

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round (4 matches).
YES. I've always thought 4 matches should be the minimum (maybe 5), but until last week I didn't think a manager would choose to run a first round with less than 4. According to their discretion, a manager could choose to play a 1st round with even less matches (2 or 1 - really doubt it would happen but who knows), so I guess it's not a bad idea to stabilish a minimum after all.

23) Off-season futures

NO. I think it's good for managers, players and Gav to have some time off. Besides, if a player whose ranking is close to the AO cut-off wants to take a break from TT in November/December, they should be entitled to do so without worrying about losing their MD spot. Perhaps if the

24) Managers & Tournaments

NO. In principle I agree it'd be better if the manager weren't able to play their own tournament except for GSs/Masters/DC. But this isn't necessarily fair, considering that it could prevent the managers from taking a potential MD/Q spot in a tournament with a lower cut-off because they're managing the event (and receiving nothing in return). Perhaps priority should be given to the managers who're sure not to play their own tournament, but I don't think a complete restriction is correct.

Last edited by keqtqiadv : 11-14-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

COMMITMENTS

1) Allowing multiple commitments: Current rule

2) Doubles deadline: Current rule

ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: Disagree

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time. Disagree

DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw I don't see the point, disagree

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: Agree

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots: Agree

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments: Agree

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments: Disagree

TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker: Agree (option a)

11) Tie-break structure: Disagree, it still depends on the manager which matches are considered as tiebreakers

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order: Agree

13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB: Agree

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB. Agree

15) Byes & first round picks: Disagree, it's not that hard to send picks for the first round

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: Current rule

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision: Disagree

PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles. Disagree, I think is a nice challenge to choose what is the best for singles and doubles

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager: Disagree, you have to pay attention to the OOP

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?). Disagree

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: Agree

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: Agree

OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: Agree

24) Managers & Tournaments: Agree
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Finalist: 2014: Morelos CH (w/Samuel Guilherme), Córdoba CH (w/Mincheff)
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

3) Special Exempts & SFs: Agree

11) Tie-break structure: Agree
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: TT Changes 2015

1) Allowing multiple commitments: Current rule
2) Doubles deadline: Current rule

ENTRY LIST

3) Special Exempts & SFs: They should be given as in ATP, if they have to play the same day qualy and the round they get. That means, if they have to play on saturday. It might be one, it might be 2.

4) Late entries to be ordered by commitment time. Current rule

DRAWS

5) Alternates & LL to be placed by the opponent's ranking order in the cases they're currently placed randomly in the draw (ex: first alternate/LL is placed against the lowest ranked player & last alternate/LL is placed against the highest ranked player whose opponent doesn't send picks).
Change, it would be better and fair.

6) Players with bye & Alternates/LL: Current rule. NO CHANGE IN THIS PLEASE.

7) Doubles final qualifying round & MD spots: Current rule

WILD CARDS

8) Wild Cards for challenger winners into 250 tournaments: No change

9) Challenger winners & WC's into 64-player tournaments: a WC to be given to a winner of challengers played in pre-estabilished weeks prior to a 64-player tournament (all Masters 1000 events + Barcelona, Queens, Hamburg, Washington, Winston-Salem). The player who wins a challenger and scores more points in these weeks earns the WC.
Change, this is more interesting actually. Great proposal, better than the one on 250s.

TB SYSTEM

10) Adding a ISR-like tie-breaker:
For God's sake, NO CHANGE.

11) Tie-break structure: TF's TB steps (ISR + 3 TB matches) to be used instead of the MTF's (SR Shootout)
NO WAY NO WAY

12) PTS & correct set in the correct order:
Change, interesting.

13) GD to be used as a TB step before CB:
a. Before PTS (GD > PTS > CB).

14) Total number of SRs to be used as a TB step after the Tournament CB.
Change, interesting we didn't see this gap before. It is almost a mandatory change.

15) Byes & first round picks: No CB.

16) Maximum number of PTS/GD matches in first rounds: there shouldn't be more than 4 PTS/GD matches in first rounds.
A top 4 is good.

17) Sets given to the winner & Shootout decision: No change

PICKS & DEADLINES

18) Allowing different picks for singles and doubles. No change pls, it's kin of the heart and particularity of TT.

19) Accepting picks sent to the wrong manager: under the following circunstances.
No change

20) Accepting picks sent until 5 minutes after the deadline (or 4, 3, 2?).
No change, time is time, it hurts but time is time.

21) Picks sent between the early deadline and the real deadline: No change unless pointed by the manager, it can lead to wrong results if manager already released diffs.

22) Minimum number of matches in singles first round: there should be a minimum of 4 matches. But I think we all accomplish this 4 1st rnd matches minimum.

OTHER QUESTIONS

23) Off-season futures: Yes, and I would add that ONLY 1 per week and all futures will be counted only by the beginning of next season to avoid extra extra work to Taz.

24) Managers & Tournaments: Definitely not alowed to play the same tourneys. Let's go for it.
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2013 W: Mons CH (w/Renaud); Yeongwol CH;// RU: Guayaquil CH (w/cserkinho) Chennai (w/SamR03A)
2014 RU: Mohameddia CH, Manta CH (w/dinkulpus)
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