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View Poll Results: Are players peaking at older ages in tennis now than in the past?

Yes 72 71.29%
No 22 21.78%
Don't know / don't care 7 6.93%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #451
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Default Re: No teens in the Top 100

Cristian Garin from Chile seems to be a promising young gun to reach top 200 at least.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:33 PM   #452
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Default Re: No teens in the Top 100

Teens of today are spoiled, self entitled brats and that reflects heavily in sports as well. Work ethic has gone right out of the window, replaced by massive amount of arrogance and talking big with no results to back it up. Amusingly, all of "promising" teenagers lack talent and character to be great champions like the current top players. I have no hopes for the current bunch of mugs who are 100% talk and no game. Watch Noserer, Nadal, Nole when they are young. Then watch Tomug, Dimugtrov and Suck. You will quickly have an explanation why this game is stagnating and top 4 are cruising to titles playing at 10%.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:20 PM   #453
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Default Re: No teens in the Top 100

^as much as I don't agree with thedoctor
I have to agree
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:58 PM   #454
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

The youngest player in the top 10 turned 25 years old today.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:39 AM   #455
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

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Originally Posted by Navratil View Post
It's obviously part of the demographi change: People are getting older and they stay young, fit and healthy much longer than they did 20 years ago. Another reason is probably that people know much more about health, nutrition and fitness than in the past.

Well Nadal, Murray, Djokovic & Del Potro are in their early twenties but did you notice how many players are in their early thirties?

I just had a look at the German Top 10 (all Top 100-players):
1. Haas (31)
2. Kohlschreiber (25)
3. Kiefer (32)
4. Becker (28)
5. Zverev (21)
6. Petzschner (25)
7. Beck (23)
8. Phau (29)
9. Schüttler (33)
10. Greul (28)


...
Funny.. a few years later the top three (Haas, Kohlschreiber & Mayer) are all in their 30ies with Haas still # 1 at the age of 35
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:42 PM   #456
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Default Re: Age and Ranking - Why is the top 100 getting older?

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Originally Posted by StatRacket View Post
The average age of the top 100 have increased from about 25.25 years in the mid 90s to a record (since Jan 1993) 26.88 years last month (click here for full article and graph).

The increasing nature of this statistic is mainly due to there being less young players (under 21) at the top. Until last year, there was at least one teenager in every year end top 100 since ATP rankings began in 1973. The 2009 year end ranking had not a single teenager, furthermore, not a single 20 year old.

Please discuss why you think the average age of the top 100 is increasing. Is it simply a deviation from the mean or perhaps a weaker younger generation? Another reason could be that the courts are, in general, slower than before and hence more endurance (which usually comes with age) is needed to win matches

My three part article on age and ranking also looks at the average age players achieve their career high and the youngest players to crack the top 5, 10 and 100. I also discuss the average age top players reach certain ranking milestones. For example, on average, number ones (since Edberg) entered the top 500 before turning 17 (16.86) and reach the top 100 before adulthood (17.94).
I remember being enthralled by the age trend, and that was in 2010. Now, almost 4 years later, the trend continues. In February 2010, the average age of the top 100 reached 26.88. Now it is over 28! This is almost certainly the all time record, but Tennis28.com (source of graph) can only confirm this from January 1993.



This thread kind of picks up from post #9 IMO.

Last edited by n8 : 11-30-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:15 AM   #457
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

I opened a similar thread in 2009 with this graph in post 1.
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=143322
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:28 AM   #458
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

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Originally Posted by Kyle_Johansen View Post
Most people peak physically in their early thirties. In tennis, the peak physical age is likely 25-28.
Lol.

More like 24-28.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:52 AM   #459
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaud View Post
I opened a similar thread in 2009 with this graph in post 1.
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=143322
Cheers for that. You've now got the coveted OP.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:54 AM   #460
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Default Re: Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older)

The amount of 'broscience' in this thread is just cringe worthy. Insufferable.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #461
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Default Re: Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older)

This is what happens with surface homogenisation. Tennis is now a much more physical sport as a result and therefore it is only natural that it is going to take longer for the youngsters to establish themselves consistently on tour. Just makes the transition significantly trickier for them, not just physically but mentally as well. Imagine being so successful in the juniors, stepping up to the main tour and getting whipped left, right and centre and not reaching the upper echelons of the tour for another 5-6 years or so. That would be incredibly frustrating and definitely create doubt in the mind of the youngsters...
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:59 PM   #462
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Default Re: Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaud View Post
How would you interpet that ?
Nearly half of recent age rise in top 100 can be explained by current top 10:



As we see from above the age of top 10 has risen 4.5 years since 2010... that makes 0,45/1 year rise for top 100...or in other words it explains nearly half of the age rise for top 100.

I think this is fairly normal variation as seen from graph above. Obviously current tennis generation is pretty strong while the next generation seems to take it's time. One would expect Nadal-Djokovic gen dominating right now, also there's nothing unusual with best of Fed gen hanging in there.

One would assume that Fed gen players will be soon taken over by Tomic gen, or simply retire. Meanwhile the Nadal gen will continue their aging.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #463
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Default Re: Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend View Post
This is what happens with surface homogenisation. Tennis is now a much more physical sport as a result and therefore it is only natural that it is going to take longer for the youngsters to establish themselves consistently on tour. Just makes the transition significantly trickier for them, not just physically but mentally as well. Imagine being so successful in the juniors, stepping up to the main tour and getting whipped left, right and centre and not reaching the upper echelons of the tour for another 5-6 years or so. That would be incredibly frustrating and definitely create doubt in the mind of the youngsters...
Good post
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #464
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Default Re: Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend View Post
This is what happens with surface homogenisation. Tennis is now a much more physical sport as a result and therefore it is only natural that it is going to take longer for the youngsters to establish themselves consistently on tour. Just makes the transition significantly trickier for them, not just physically but mentally as well. Imagine being so successful in the juniors, stepping up to the main tour and getting whipped left, right and centre and not reaching the upper echelons of the tour for another 5-6 years or so. That would be incredibly frustrating and definitely create doubt in the mind of the youngsters...
This is just incorrect though.

For one, Djokovic, Nadal and Murray have had success by playing laborious styles from an early age. Surface didn't effect them, why? Because they were physically well prepared.

There is absolutely no scientific backing to suggest that elite performers in their late teens/early twenties cannot achieve high and potentially peak levels of physical performance. Some of tennis' fundamental physical attributes such as flexibility (think of joints, not only movement) and agility have been demonstrated to peak at an early age by plenty of literature. Strength and thus power generally peak later but this is irrelevant to this subject. Someone in their late teens and early 20's can easily achieve tremendous levels of strength, more than enough for tennis performance.

Look at how youngsters performed in the past on slow surfaces. Look at their body composition as an indicator.

Rafael Nadal won Roland Garros aged 19. Marat Safin at 18 was winning gruelling back to back 5 set matches against Agassi and Kuerten at Roland Garros. Carlos Moya and Gustavo Kuerten were winning Roland Garros aged 20 and 21. Courier won multiple slams when he was 20/21 in Australia and Roland Garros. Look at the likes of Guillermo Coria, demonstrating unbelievable physicality when he was 21.

There's countless other examples but the fact is that these men were physically prime time, they were in fantastic shape. Forget about everything else and simply analyse their performance and how they used their physicality to their advantage, at a young age.

Now we have Grigor Dimitrov weighing in at about 160lbs, cramping up after 2 sets of tennis. That is poor physical conditioning. Even Del Potro at 20 was playing 5 set matches with relative comfort.

The current generation need to dedicate themselves to fitness, like Andy Murray did in the 2007 off season. Are we in a completely different era now than we were in 2008? No. Andy Murray did it, when he was relatively frail in comparison to other top players. In the space of months he transformed himself and became one of the best athletes on tour. If this lot want it enough, they'd do the same.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:51 PM   #465
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Default Re: Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older)

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
This is just incorrect though.

For one, Djokovic, Nadal and Murray have had success by playing laborious styles from an early age. Surface didn't effect them, why? Because they were physically well prepared.

There is absolutely no scientific backing to suggest that elite performers in their late teens/early twenties cannot achieve high and potentially peak levels of physical performance. Some of tennis' fundamental physical attributes such as flexibility (think of joints, not only movement) and agility have been demonstrated to peak at an early age by plenty of literature. Strength and thus power generally peak later but this is irrelevant to this subject. Someone in their late teens and early 20's can easily achieve tremendous levels of strength, more than enough for tennis performance.

Look at how youngsters performed in the past on slow surfaces. Look at their body composition as an indicator.

Rafael Nadal won Roland Garros aged 19. Marat Safin at 18 was winning gruelling back to back 5 set matches against Agassi and Kuerten at Roland Garros. Carlos Moya and Gustavo Kuerten were winning Roland Garros aged 20 and 21. Courier won multiple slams when he was 20/21 in Australia and Roland Garros. Look at the likes of Guillermo Coria, demonstrating unbelievable physicality when he was 21.

There's countless other examples but the fact is that these men were physically prime time, they were in fantastic shape. Forget about everything else and simply analyse their performance and how they used their physicality to their advantage, at a young age.

Now we have Grigor Dimitrov weighing in at about 160lbs, cramping up after 2 sets of tennis. That is poor physical conditioning. Even Del Potro at 20 was playing 5 set matches with relative comfort.

The current generation need to dedicate themselves to fitness, like Andy Murray did in the 2007 off season. Are we in a completely different era now than we were in 2008? No. Andy Murray did it, when he was relatively frail in comparison to other top players. In the space of months he transformed himself and became one of the best athletes on tour. If this lot want it enough, they'd do the same.
Yeah look, I tend to agree with most of your post. But a players physical conditioning wasn't as instrumental to success as it is today.. Players weren't transforming their bodies so drastically because variety and court craft were the attributes that were essential... Of course you needed to be fit but in contemporary tennis it is absolutely imperative.. Nadal and Djokovic are anomalies as far as I'm concerned... Nadal was always a beast.. Toni had his prototype mapped out in his mind from the day little Rafito was conceived.. Nole has completely altered his lifestyle and changed his entire diet to succeed... This is what it takes these days..

Also, because everyone plays the same these days (grinding 20+ shot baseline rallies) the youngsters are going to get outhit, simply because of their conditioning. There are no alternate routes to success these days... No court craft, sneaky chess like movements.. The slice is pretty much nullified now because of racquet technology.. Serve/Volley is completely non-existent.. It is one way or the highway type stuff out on the tour now.. Outlast your opponent from the baseline and repeat x1000. The juniors aren't prepared for this... what they experience on the junior circuit is pretty much a routine training session for the main tour players now... And until you reach your peak physical condition (mid twenties or so) they are not going to be able to keep up on a consistent basis.. (Nadal's and Djokovic's aside)
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