Where are the teenagers ? (Top 100 getting older and older) - Page 13 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: Are players peaking at older ages in tennis now than in the past?

Yes 72 71.29%
No 22 21.78%
Don't know / don't care 7 6.93%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-05-2011, 11:39 AM   #181
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Default Re: Age and Ranking - Why is the top 100 getting older?

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Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
In many sports you can compensate for loss of quickness with experience. Like knowing where to be and what to do. Good example is team sports. It's not always obvious that a star player has lost speed/quickness because they are always in the right position and try to not put that much mileage on their body in the match. In a short rush over 20-30m a 35-40 year old can definitely be competitive. It's just when you do it over and over day after day you wont heal as fast as a 20-25 year old and the risk for injury is higher as well.

On the other side of the coin a male 16-17 year old that want to compete with a 25 year old will have to rush the development of muscles and such and that comes at the price of endurance. Many endurance sports like long distance running/cross-country skiing or what not it's very clear that young juniors can't compete because it takes a few years of hard pressure on the body to develop the kind of endurance needed.

So I'd say tennis right now is neither a young mans sport or an old man's sport. It is for men in their peak physical condition. No matter when that comes. Some might reach that at 20-22 and keep it, others take until 25. Some might even peak at 27-29! Most men will decline post 30 though because then the decline in testosterone production etc is a factor (unless you use doping)

And as people said in this thread you are actually covering the court and chasing a ball. You can't "cheat" in tennis by just covering the right side of the court or something like an old soccer player might decide that he will not move as much over the field. There is no-one else to fill in for you and cover for you like a young and up and coming talent can cover for veterans in team games. Doesn't work to be 35-40. Sure you can give your all for a few points and look competitive. Then you would be tired in no time. Or you can decide to not cover far out or run down dropshots etc. Your opponent will use that and you lose badly

Also I think the kids 16-17 years old and alike has problems with the power. The ball is hit so hard that either you will have to rush build muscle (maybe even illegaly to have time!) while you work on the endurance and technique OR you can take it easier with the endurance and technique and work hard to build muscle in the gym. It is a limit how much your body can "build" per year so to speak so you can't have everything. Once in a full moon there will come a guy like Del Potro that seems to have the entire package <20. Maybe also count Nadal in there who was also a physical freak at young age. Del Potro doesn't remind me of a kid like Wilander who could move in as a 17 year old and win a slam without having much power. Wilander would have been blown off the court if he came with that body today for example
Some very good points here, excellent post. The game is just so much more physical than it used to be that young talents ( like Chang and Becker, for example) don´t just surprise everyone and win Slams. It takes so much more time to develop the physique.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:41 AM   #182
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Default Re: Age and Ranking - Why is the top 100 getting older?

This is definitely a trend in the entire sport. Even in WTA, which used to easily produce a myriad of teenage prodigies has seen a maturity in top players and the young ones are having difficulty breaking in.

For ATP, the game has evolved so much in the last 10 years that mental fortitude can only be improved over time. Surely, the kids are talented but the mental aspect of their games are no longer enough to push them easily to the top.
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Old 06-05-2011, 12:21 PM   #183
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Default Re: Age and Ranking - Why is the top 100 getting older?

A brief comparison of generations suggests it may be getting harder to achieve a high ranking as a teenager, although it may also be the case that the current generation of teenagers are weak, or something is going wrong with their training.

1990s generation: Sampras finished 1990 (age 19) at world no 5. Chang hit the top 5 at 17. Becker was ranked world No 2 at 19. Agassi was world no 3 at 18.

2000s generation: Safin hit world No 1 at age 20 and so did Hewitt. Both players were well into the top 5 in their teens. Roddick hit world No 1 at 21 (although wasn't top 10 until age 20). Federer was a late bloomer and didn't hit the top 10 until 21; ditto Nalbandian.

2010s generation: Nadal obviously world No 2 in his teens. Murray hit the top 10 about a month after his 20th birthday. Nole hit the top 10 a month before his 20th birthday and was No 3 aged 20. Delpo, like Murray, hit the top 10 just after his 20th birthday.

Next generation - who is there exactly? A couple of players in the top 100? There is no question that every one of the players listed above was well into the top 100 as a teenager.

There does seem to be an increasing trend for 'top' players to hit the top 10 at about 20/21, whereas in the 1990s they would hit the top 10 as teenagers. Nadal is probably an outlier. Except for Rafa, Safin and Hewitt were the last players to be well into the top 5 as teenagers. Worryingly for Rafa, both burned out very early.

However, even players iike Federer, Murray and Djokovic who weren't top 10 as teenagers (or only just scraped in) were showing a lot of promise as teenagers e.g. Fed beating Sampras at Wimbledon at age 19.

One explanation of the above stats is that the 'breakthrough' age for top players is getting older. Unfortunately, a more simple and logical explanation is that the next generation has no top players.

Maybe something is going wrong with the coaching? Perhaps the current ideas about how to train young players are wrong but there is a bit of groupthink going on and coaches are sticking dogmatically to them?
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:25 AM   #184
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Default Re: Age and Ranking - Why is the top 100 getting older?

This not only happens in ATP, but also happens in WTA as well. I don't know the answer. I'm curious though. When Boris Becker won Wimbledon (he was 17 at the time, right), were there junior competitions in grand slams? 5

Nowadays, more and more players are staying and playing longer than what it used to be. I believed Bjorn Borg retired when he was 25 (correct me if I'm wrong), while today 25 and above seems to be when a player peak his/her performance.
In the future, there will be more and more players playing in their 30s (I'm not predicting, but it would seem that way.)
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:02 AM   #185
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Default Re: Age and Ranking - Why is the top 100 getting older?

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Some very good points here, excellent post. The game is just so much more physical than it used to be that young talents ( like Chang and Becker, for example) don´t just surprise everyone and win Slams. It takes so much more time to develop the physique.
Unless there is another major shift soon, then it's not changing soon.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:46 AM   #186
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

Beacause the next genaration is badly overrated! Tomic Eaten alive by Cillic by 1 love and 2! Dimitrov Couldent stay on his feet to save his life when I saw him at Wimbledon! these kids are not guna become challengers!
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:55 AM   #187
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

From my point of view, the top 100 is mainly getting older for two reason :

1- the game is more and more physic, and it takes more time to get the level of the top 100 in this department. This is a "long term" explanation due to how evolved the game in the 2000's.

2- there was an incredible generation of players born between 1980 and 1982 (Federer, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Hewitt, Roddick, Davydenko, Safin, Gonzalez...) which was very talented both physically and also technically. They have in this last aspect a huge avantage of the new generation because they had to be very good to compete against the top guys of the late 90. They are far more commplete. This is the "short term" explanation due to the ages of those players now.
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:51 AM   #188
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

Anything with climbing up the rankings is ridiculous. If you're not good enough to beat the 150th player of the world in a challenger, why would you be in the top 100. If you do have the skills to beat him, you'll get in the top 100 soon enough.
Remember Thiemo de Bakker, played around the 200th and 300th spot for 2 years, than all of a sudden got it going, won 4 challengers in 5 attempts or something and reached the top 100 (to fall out of it, just 2 years after).
All young tennisplayers suck ass, that's why Djokovic has only lost once to a player younger than him, and that's why they don't reach the top 100.
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:11 AM   #189
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

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Originally Posted by Super Djoker View Post
Beacause the next genaration is badly overrated! Tomic Eaten alive by Cillic by 1 love and 2! Dimitrov Couldent stay on his feet to save his life when I saw him at Wimbledon! these kids are not guna become challengers!
Agree... some people are almost desperate to get a new Federer or new Sampras, but it's not going to happen so easy. Basketball for example, is far more popular/widespread compared to tennis, but you don't see new Jordans or new Magics appearing very often (or at all some would say)
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:11 AM   #190
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

It's the same on the WTA. The doubles world # 1 in 38 years old! Navratilova won a slam with almost 50 years!

Kimiko Date is still a dangerous player with over 40 years and there are almost no teenagers anymore at the top.

Remember when players like Capriati, Hingis, Seles, Jaeger & Co turned pro with 14 or 15 years of ago!!
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:50 PM   #191
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Default Tignor says that tennis is "getting old".

Tignor laments the lack of new talent in tennis today.

http://tennis.com/articles/templates...14729&zoneid=9




Why are so few new players making the breakthrough today ?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:49 PM   #192
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Default Re: Age and Ranking Discussion Thread - Why is the top 100 getting older?

Just take a look at Top ten
seven guys out of Top ten at age 25 +
six guys of Ten at age 26 +
four guys of ten at age 27 +
three guys of then at age 29 and half +


2. Nadal age 25 + 4.5 months
3. Federer age 30
5. Ferrer Age 29 + 6 months
6. Soderling Age 27 + 2months
7. Berdych Age 26 + 2 months
8. Tsonga Age 26 + 6 months
9. Fish Age 30
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:25 PM   #193
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Default 28+ year old veterans peaking/making comebacks?

I am just wondering in the last ten years or so, what's up with these veteran players still hanging around, despite injuries or age. For example, there have been guys like Ferrero, Hewitt, Roddick, Haas, Davydenko, Ljubicic, Nalbandian, etc. whose peak was around the 2003-05 years, but within the last two years, they have been making comebacks and several of them winning titles against younger guys. Is it due to experience? The fact that they have been former top ten players who know what it takes to compete? That despite having injuries, their playing style doesn't cause a huge detriment to their bodies? Of course they aren't consistently competing with the top guys, but they are still in the picture. Some of them had long-term injuries, or problems that kept them out for patches of the season, but they are still doing pretty well.

Federer aside, there seem to be a lot of guys 28+ who are enjoy their peak success now rather than at a younger age. You have Ferrer who will be 30 next May, who is having a great year, reaching a career high ranking, has been in the top ten almost a year now.

Mardy Fish who will be 30 this December, reached the top ten for the first time earlier this year. Feliciano Lopez is 30 and he is probably going to reach a career high by the end of the year. Steps and Ljubicic aren't at career highs but they're both 32 and still hanging around the top 30--and Ljuba won a Masters last year.

We're starting to get more youngsters (Nishikori, Raonic, Tomic, Dimitrov, Young, Harrison, etc.) but we still have lots of these "veterans" doing some damage. Is it good for the game? Bad for the game?
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:35 PM   #194
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Default Re: 28+ year old veterans peaking/making comebacks?

Perhaps these old geezers aren't exactly those 'mugs from a weak era' () as certain posters claim so very often, but actually rather great tennis players whose sheer amount of talent allows them to still be a force to be reckoned with, even when in their thirties. These guys deserve genuine respect!
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:07 PM   #195
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Default Re: 28+ year old veterans peaking/making comebacks?

I don't know why but i'm always for old guys on tour.
Great to see somebody playing nice tennis for a really long time. Even if i didn't like him as a youngster at his peak, i start to feel for him near his 30-s.
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