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Old 07-21-2009, 08:45 PM   #1546
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by Natsume View Post
His loss to Llodra in Marseilles the week before already showed all the symptoms of his recurrent problem.
(I can't believe you're not mentioning his haircut btw)
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:54 PM   #1547
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
But I guess I have to kinda make up a turning point in my mind to explain what's happening to him, otherwise, I just can't understand what the hell is happening.
IMO, the turning point occured during the inter-season, just after Shanghaď to be more accurate; no factual evidence, just my gut feeling. And I don't think it has a lot to do with his "change" of game either. Actually, I think his will to change his game was partly the solution to the problem that was already undermining him.
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:57 PM   #1548
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by rtgy View Post
(I can't believe you're not mentioning his haircut btw)
Llodra's haircut was enough to burn my eyes already, I couldn't see Gillou's
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:57 PM   #1549
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

Aye you're probably right about Marseille being the start.
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:58 PM   #1550
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by Truc View Post
Exactly, Marseille already was so bad, in his attitude, in his game.No no, I know you were not saying that! I was just saying that he will maybe choose this new approach for the rest of the season. But it's not what he has said so far, and I think it would be self-deluding - but whatever works for him.
Oh, ok. Actually, I really didn't think he was trying to delude himself by saying it was clay. I kinda remembered that he is still saying that he's sticking with his approach to try to evolve his game, sort of. And I think he blamed the losses more on his stamina because of the knee, which I think is really getting old. Since he kept saying that the knee is not in pain and it's not the factor for the losses but he still wasn't practicing enough to get his fitness up. Then I don't understand what's the problem, go work the ass off if he can, unless he can't because of the knee, which he kept saying it wasn't the issue. Is he not telling the truth about his knee problem ?

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I hope it didn't spoil your appetite, since you were starving!
Oh, thanks, for saying that. I was starving, I went to get sth quick after he lost the 2nd set, but I did lose my appetite because of the tension of watching the SB, so I just eat something really crappy and not even know what it's taste like, but just to stop my stomach from crying for food . It's good that I can probably do better by losing some weight .
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:24 PM   #1551
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by Natsume View Post
IMO, the turning point occured during the inter-season, just after Shanghaï to be more accurate; no factual evidence, just my gut feeling. And I don't think it has a lot to do with his "change" of game either. Actually, I think his will to change his game was partly the solution to the problem that was already undermining him.
I'm actually thinking that he may have some motivation problem. I get around to read the AO thread over the weekend, and in one of the pre-open interview, he said that he doesn't care if he ranks 6 or 30, he just want to do better on big events. So if you look at his result, he has done better on all Slams and all his TMS except MC (eventhough better is just maybe one round better). And he's been horrible in everything else. Maybe it had started with focusing on the big events, but then when you can't get motivated in small events and started losing them, the confidence gets affected too little by little. It's not like you can turn yourself on and off based on the event, and still maintain the level of confidence all the time.

I'm actually quite agreed that he needs to add all those into his game, the aggressiveness. Because he can't really win a big event by grinding his way in, playing long matches after long matches, he needs to get thru the first rounds faster to reserve energy both physically and mentally. So if that's what it takes, that if he is just trying to change his game and has to pay his due by going thru transitional rough period, then so be it. I think he should continue what he plans to do. I'm really thinking that he can do it if he persists.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:53 PM   #1552
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
I'm actually thinking that he may have some motivation problem.
I wasn't thinking of some motivation problem but an acute awareness of the discrepancy between his new ranking/status and how he perceived himself with his game limitations and how he knows people perceived him as a tennis player ()

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
he said that he doesn't care if he ranks 6 or 30, he just want to do better on big events. So if you look at his result, he has done better on all Slams and all his TMS except MC (eventhough better is just maybe one round better).
Yes he has done better in big events but that is partly due to the fact he was much better seeded this year; he should definitely care about rankings even if he only wants to do better in GS. ^_^

I've just watched the last game of his match against Muzza two years ago (thanx Les!); he was already as offensive as he is today!!! >_< (at least in this last game).
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:16 PM   #1553
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by Natsume View Post
I wasn't thinking of some motivation problem but an acute awareness of the discrepancy between his new ranking/status and how he perceived himself with his game limitations and how he knows people perceived him as a tennis player ()
I like the way you say that, it sounds so technical , it probably is part of the problem if not THE problem. So you think over the holidays he slept on his new status and couldn't reconcile that with his perception of himself that led to his self-doubt ? (I don't know why I need to rewrite what you said, , but I just did, I'm keeping it .

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Yes he has done better in big events but that is partly due to the fact he was much better seeded this year; he should definitely care about rankings even if he only wants to do better in GS. ^_^
Quite true. However, he didn't lose to players ranked #120 like he did in small events, perhaps he managed to concentrate better and maybe fight a little more in bigger events? and that would be a matter of motivation. And I think his attitude in ranking is quite silly really. If he gets very deep into a slam, he won't be in the 30 ranks anyway. So you won't be ranked 30 if you did well in slams, and I assume his doing well in slams in QF to SF at the least.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:14 PM   #1554
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
So you think over the holidays he slept on his new status and couldn't reconcile that with his perception of himself that led to his self-doubt ?
Not exactly. My grand theory is that he experienced the masters event as an intruder, with the feeling of not quite belonging to this league yet, not so much tennis-wise but recognition-wise. The ensuing holidays gave him time to do what he shouldn't do : think too much! ^^
I guess the fact that he's got quite an ego didn't help either to handle the situation.

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
However, he didn't lose to players ranked #120 like he did in small events, perhaps he managed to concentrate better and maybe fight a little more in bigger events? and that would be a matter of motivation.
No doubt that GS tournaments give him an extra kick to fight more vigorously and stay focused more consistently; and yes, as he had said himself, his motivation regarding the smaller events has changed, yet it is hard to take that as an explanation for such loss as today's.
btw, regarding the GS, He didn't lose this year to players ranked #120 but is still losing to lesser ranked players, something that didn't happen to him in all four GS last year (if my memory serves me right). On that ground, I'm almost tempted to say that he did a better job in GS last year.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:24 PM   #1555
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
If he gets very deep into a slam, he won't be in the 30 ranks anyway. So you won't be ranked 30 if you did well in slams, and I assume his doing well in slams in QF to SF at the least.
Well I can understand that he gives more importance to results than rankings althought both are obviously connected. But the basic pratical approach is that it's much harder to go deep into tournaments if you are to play the top seeds in the first rounds; and you have to start somewhere to get a good seed. His "chance" is that he was/is top-eight seeded without convincing previous GS results but unfortunately he didn't really take advantage of it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:21 AM   #1556
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

Ouch. What a horrible loss
Gillou is clearly at sea and the clay seems to be clogging his brain and disrupting his ability to think clearly or something. No more clay please. Rest for the Masters Gilles and dont you dare ask for a wildcard to anyother tourney before that.

ON the other hand this is for everyone who sat through the match last night
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:22 AM   #1557
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

Why the poor result? Doesn't he care about these 2 tournaments?
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:57 AM   #1558
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

Sorry for dragging this conversation on, but I have to leave for a meeting earlier and couldn't carry on then, and I haven't finished with all my thoughts yet.

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Not exactly. My grand theory is that he experienced the masters event as an intruder, with the feeling of not quite belonging to this league yet, not so much tennis-wise but recognition-wise. The ensuing holidays gave him time to do what he shouldn't do : think too much! ^^
I guess the fact that he's got quite an ego didn't help either to handle the situation.
I quite agree with your theory, and what do u think these thinking led to? suppose he started having self-doubt thinking that he doesn't belong? But why? what makes him think he doesn't belong? so he has deficiency in his game, who doesn't? he still beat those players that he beat, what does that tell him then? it can't be all luck? and more importantly, what does he think he has to do to make himself belongs? maybe he thinks the slams and big title will do the trick, is it then it becomes the pressure that he put on himself that makes him pretty much fell apart? Maybe he should step back and go back to the basic (haha, whatever that means, but we heard it so often in sports talk ) . Pardon me, I'm just pretty much thinking out loud at this point. I guess i just want to think of a solution for him, except that I'm not even quite understand what's the problem . But that's what fans do, right? thinking that we may know better and hence can come up with answers for the players to get out of the slump .

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Originally Posted by Natsume View Post
No doubt that GS tournaments give him an extra kick to fight more vigorously and stay focused more consistently; and yes, as he had said himself, his motivation regarding the smaller events has changed, yet it is hard to take that as an explanation for such loss as today's.
There is no excuse for this loss, for sure. It's a ATP500 event, it's more point than getting into a TMS SF, and how many TMS SF he had so far, not that many. And honestly, being a top player, I think he really should be able to handle players like this solely by auto reflex.

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btw, regarding the GS, He didn't lose this year to players ranked #120 but is still losing to lesser ranked players, something that didn't happen to him in all four GS last year (if my memory serves me right). On that ground, I'm almost tempted to say that he did a better job in GS last year.
I'm more comparing his slams performance to his other events performance. But if you compare his slams performance this year to last year, then he certainly did benefit from the ranking rather than his good plays.

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Well I can understand that he gives more importance to results than rankings althought both are obviously connected. But the basic pratical approach is that it's much harder to go deep into tournaments if you are to play the top seeds in the first rounds; and you have to start somewhere to get a good seed. His "chance" is that he was/is top-eight seeded without convincing previous GS results but unfortunately he didn't really take advantage of it.
I guess my point is that when he said he doesn't care about his ranking, is really just because he knows that a good slam result is going to take care of the ranking. But he did say if he gets into a slam final, he doesn't care if he sucks the rest of the entire year or sth like that. I tend to think that he said that more to convince himself that whatever else won't matter if he can get to a slam final.I'm trying so hard to decipher his words. But I think he needs to actually win a slam to erase all the bads of a long season, really .

Speaking of ranking, he's going to lose 470 pts in these 2 weeks and he is likely still be in the top 8 for the next 2 TMS. So he still has a good chance of getting the 8th seed in USO, but of course, it will mean he has to do as good if not better than 4-5 players under him including Soderling and Verdasco, tall task, but certainly achievable. If he is still top 8 going into USO, as least it will bug the hell out of his haters, if that's any consolation to his fans.

Please pardon my long post, but I have so much thought going thru my head and I just have to let it out .
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:28 AM   #1559
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season






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Where the hell is the real Gilles Simon, I want him back.
...Gillou pleaseeee


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Goodnight


He's out.
poor Stan


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you're right

but i was expecting to see Gillou vs Stan(Wawa) Final
done , i will never set any HOPE or Expectation again

my hopes never came to real once!!



for everyone here
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:15 AM   #1560
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Default Re: 2009 Clay season

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Originally Posted by Natsume View Post
I wasn't thinking of some motivation problem but an acute awareness of the discrepancy between his new ranking/status and how he perceived himself with his game limitations and how he knows people perceived him as a tennis player ()
You really think so? I have troubles to believe it, how would he and many others find the strength to work hard regularly, if there was a subconscious feeling of inadequacy?

I feel Gilles' current troubles are more due to the "defending" effect. I have always said it is harder to stay in the top ten than to get there. The pressure simply mounts as with a ranking as high as that, everyone expects clear wins against those ranked below, it is considered "business as usual" and you wouldn't get credit for it. And that is very different from being the underdog and having nothing to lose.

Gilles is far from the only one struggling with it. Think about Ferrer, Wawrinka or on a higher level even Djokovic.
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