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Old 02-05-2009, 03:24 PM   #1
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Question The Musketeers : which is which?

When talking about our four favourites frenchies the obvious nickname "The 4 Musketeers" tends to be spreading more and more. L'Equipe tried desperately but unsuccesfully to launch "Les 4 As" and welovetennis.com went for "Les 4 Fantastiques" but I don't think neither one of these will take.
So I thought it would be fun to discuss which player corresponds with which musketeer.
It seems inevitable that Tsonga, with his physical stature, strength, and forwardness is Porthos.
Simon, the clever one, the intellectual can only be Aramis.
Then Athos, the mensch with a troubled past who is an inspiration for the others would be Gasquet, and Monfils, with his bravura, fantasy and panache would be d'Artagnan. It kinda fit...
What do you think? Give your input...

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Old 02-05-2009, 04:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

I don't know the characters at all, I have no idea!
Do people read "Les 3 Mousquetaires" again nowadays? It was quite old-fashioned when I was young.

I'm with Jo on that one, I think he said in the article in L'Equipe ("Et si c'étaient les nouveaux Mousquetaires?") that they should try to find something else for this generation. The comparison with the real Musketeers doesn't work either since nobody knows Lacoste, Borotra, Brugnon & Cochet anymore and it's safe to say the new guys won't win 20 Slams.
I don't remember Jo's suggestion, though.

(Je veux pas te casser ton beau thread, hein, mais voilà mon "input".)
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

I actually read and adored Dumas' book when I was 14, which was 6 years ago, Fran! It's not old-fashioned at all to me, and it fascinated me more than most of today's books tbh. You should definitely read it if you have a chance, as well as the second book (Vingt Ans Après) which is awesome too.

I remember that on welovetennis.fr, a poster named Patricia had left a very beautiful text about who is who. I'll try to find it as soon as the stupid website works again !

Xhr, don't you think that d'Artagnan is the inspiring one and would be good for Gasquet ? Plus everything began with him, he's Gascon, and he would be the one without whom the others wouldn't have left the shadows thanks to him, the others began to understand their real value... Plus he's a little on the marge (à part, comment on dit ?) compared to the others who have been friends forever. I could relate that part with Jo, Gilles and Gaël long together story as teenagers. So Richie would be D'Artagnan for me

Aramis, with his intellectual approach to everything, dark and pessimistic side and beautiful features is all Gillou I'm hesitating for the last two, but Athos is the magnificient, leader-born one and Jo would do a good job there ! The troubled past works too, with all his injuries and fights to get back to the top.
As for Porthos, le bon-vivant and the kindest of all, Gaël seems to fit (I admit it's the one I remember less about.)

That's my input,
D'Artagnan - Gasquet
Athos - Tsonga
Porthos - Monfils
Aramis - Simon
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

I'm not familiar with the three musketeers. I've heard of them but never read the stories or anything like that. I agree with Jo's opinion that they need a new nickname for this generation. It just brings up (perhaps unfair) comparisons between this generation and the generation of Lacoste and co which very few people remember. It'd be interesting to have a competition to see who could come up with a new nickname - not that I can think of anything just yet though!
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Yes Françoise after "give your input" I certainly should have add "if you know the characters"... Also when I announced "an important issue" apparently the irony got lost. I usually love your posts but boy, this one, talk about a killjoy (ça, tu me l'as bien plombé, mon thread )... It is just a little litterary game for those who are into that kind of things that I thought of while waiting for Jo's match... But since your post is so "serious" i will add that I am sorry that you didn't experience the joy, the intense pleasure of being captivated by Dumas novels (no "Comte de Monte Cristo" either? What about "La Reine Margot", no ? You don't know what you missed...) when you were a child or a teenager or even as an adult, especially on the dubious account that it could be "old-fashioned". I don't really understand how this notion apply to such a timeless and universal classic (so universal that they do a movie every 10 years of it). Is Jules Verne old-fashioned too? And what about Mark Twain, Arsène Lupin, Sherlock Holmes, Dickens, Jack London? Old-fashioned? I am restraining the list to so-called "youth litterature" but you could broaden it to Proust, Zola, Balzac, Molière, Shakespeare and whatnot while you are at it... Oh those old dusty books... Let's hope reading doesn't become completely out of fashion for kids, it's such a great source of pleasure.

Keijan, loved your post, you make a very convincing case with Gasquet d'Artagnan. I had thought about it too actually. About Porthos, in my memory he is always described as huge, almost a giant, that's why I have trouble not seeing Jo in the part. But Gaël might share some traits too, he could probably be a good Porthos, psychologically if not physically. Jo has definitely some of Athos' depth and rectitude, and on Gilou we agree he could totally be a "prélat". Let's call him Monseigneur from now on...

Oh, and do you know there is a third volume "Le vicomte de Bragelonne" ?

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Old 02-05-2009, 10:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keijan View Post
Xhr, don't you think that d'Artagnan is the inspiring one and would be good for Gasquet ? Plus everything began with him, he's Gascon,
"Gas"quet is not "Gas"con, even if his name is close to it. Béziers and even more so Paris is far from Gascony.

I don't know the story that well, it is too long ago that I read it, but Richard as d'Artagnan is on one side very fitting, on the other side totally wrong. Gloating is certainly not Richard's cup of tea.

I am mostly struggling with the problem of Aramis.
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

I'm fascinated my very harmless post inspired all those thoughts and assumptions, Xavier!
And also quite amused you call *my* post "serious".

Je vous laisse disserter entre gens qui ont lu cette oeuvre essentielle.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Béziers is actually not far from Gascogne, Pushkin. And even if Richard lived 100 years in Paris he would never be a parisian : too thick an accent !
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xhr75019 View Post
Béziers is actually not far from Gascogne, Pushkin.
I know, I have been there. For me Béziers is rather Mediterranean, while Gascony isn't. I can't describe it, but I felt differently in Languedoc and in Gascogny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xhr75019 View Post
And even if Richard lived 100 years in Paris he would never be a parisian : too thick an accent !
That's fine with me. I love France, particularly the south, but I don't like Paris.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Fran, on peut discuter, non ? Ne le prends pas comme ça :-( si ce thread te paraissait inintéressant, il ne fallait pas y poster, mais ne te moque pas des gens qui l'apprécient et ont aimé le livre...



I actually really dislike welovetennis habit to refer to them as the 4 fantastics... The film was pathetic and I never heard of the comics. They're trying to look cool and young but it doesn't work, it's very caricatural, ininteresting, sometimes mean and as always, they reinterpret the facts so they can fit what they want to write. Let's go with the Beatles or something then



Puschkin, I know Richie is not Gascon, I was myself in Béziers (and Sérignan !) just yesterday. But according to wikipedia, Gascogne is a lot closer to Béziers than Paris I only wanted to point out that both Richie and D'Artagnan entered Paris as "foreigners", from the far countryside. Whereas the other 3 have long been used to the life in the capital or in a big city (if you ever went to Sérignan you would know what I mean )
I actually think Richie's accent got a looot better since those videos where he was 10 or 14 ! (me demande si les autres l'ont mis en boîte à cause de ça tiens.)


"Gloating is certainly not Richard's cup of tea"
You have to totally agree with that. Then Aramis would be my next choice for Richie, so Xrh, we have a problem From what I recall (long time since I read the books, and no I didn't know there was a third one ! What is it about ?), Aramis is the sweetest, kindest and most sensitive one, with his dark sides since he spends half the books dealing with his own demons. He even writes poems, right So with that insight, Aramis could be Richie or Gaël ! But Monseigneur Gillou is too perfect, I can't let it go

I still think Athos is the most fitting one for Jo he's the perfect leader.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

I really should read it again, it's so far away... I didn't remember Athos was such a leader compared to the others but I trust you on that. The more I think about it the more I like your Gasquet-d'Artagnan who - again in my a bit foggy memory - isn't so much inclined to gloat, or is he? He certainly is no Tartarin de Tarascon, that's fo shuu. Stick to your first choice Keijan, I second it.

I really don't remember "Le vicomte de Bragelonne" so well it's been... almost 40 years. I think it happens 10 or 15 years after "Vingt ans après". The musketeers are old. Aramis is now a bishop. The vicomte is Athos' son and he is in love with Louise de Lavallière (Louis XIV's mistress). There is also a big part about the Iron Mask mystery. Just found there is a good presentation of the book on wikipedia : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_vicomte_de_bragelonne
But you might not want to look at it if you intend to read the novel...
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Keijan you don't even have to buy it or borrow it it's here , online !!!
http://www.dumaspere.com/pages/bibli...re.php?lid=r41
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

awesome, Xhr ! Thanks, but I prefer to read it on real paper
I like Richie as D'Artagnan, too. But it's a shame I can't find again the post by Patricia on wlt, anyone knows how to use their research mode ? I remember she posted it on one of Apolline's posts, where she was complaining about not getting any comments on the 4 fantastics posts. I hope they didn't delete it.
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Yeah that would be a good addition to the thread, if you can find it.
I have quite mixed feelings about this wlt site. This Apolline girl is so full of herself. As a friend of mine would say "elle en a marre d'être importante"...
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Musketeers : which is which?

Found it !
Patricia, si jamais tu passes dans le coin, j'espère que cela ne te posera pas de soucis que je te cite. Bien sûr je supprimerai ce post si tu me le demandes !

From welovetennis


Maintenant, je manque un peu d'enthousiasme (même si visuellement c'est superbe et plus original) sur le relooking des Mousquetaires en Fantastiques.
Tout simplement parce que le modèle du comics US me paraît intrinsèquement moins riche que Dumas (oui, les Mousquetaires qui m'intéressent ne sont pas les tennismen du XXè siècle mais les personnages de Dumas) et que l'analogie me semble moins entière.

Autant la Torche et Elastic man vont comme un gant à Jo et Gaël (tout en restant des traits un brin superficiels), autant la Chose et l'Homme invisible obligent à mes yeux à forcer un peu le trait... Je suis d'accord que l'invisibilité est une problématique symbolique qui sied parfaitement à Gasquet, mais je la trouve limitée pour qualifier son jeu. Et si le "mais c'est quoi ce truc?" est bien trouvé pour le jeu de Simon, le caractère anguleux et lourdingue de la Chose est très éloigné du sinueux Simon, de sa finesse et de sa cérébralité.

Alors que les Mousquetaires....

Tsonga en d'Artagnan : le panache, la bravade, l'explosivité, la séduction, l'arrivée en fanfare, le filet ou la mort !

Monfils en Porthos : le physique mythique, les excès ludiques, les dérapages comiques, les ambitions naîves, "l'âme d'enfant" chérie par Dumas (il était son préféré).

Simon, bien sûr, en Aramis : la vivacité et la finesse poussées à l'extrême, l'ambition effreinée, la langue caustique, le sens de l'intrigue, le style insaisissable de "l'Abbé mousquetaire" - aussi singulier que l'intello Simon dans le paysage tennistique.

Et Gasquet en Athos, le vétéran et l'égérie du quatuor, le génie du fleuret, sa mélancolie, ses failles marquées (alcooliques pour le comte de la Fère, paniques pour Gasquet), son mutisme, et l'ombre écrasante du passé... Si c'est pas notre Richard, tout ça !

Je ne connais pas les particularités de Lacoste, Borotra and co, mais je serais très étonnée s'ils collaient d'aussi prêt au casting que nos jeunes pousses du XXIè !
Si je devais les qualifier, j'opterais sans doute pour "les véritables Mousquetaires"...

Provocateur sans doute mais pas plus que le choix d'un modèle ricain pour ces gars du terroir. D'ailleurs j'aime bien aussi le côté franchouillard des Mousquetaires du Roy, et la France unie à la Province représentée par le Normand, le Gascon, le Niçois et le Parigot.



Pas le courage de traduire. Mais elle n'est pas vraiment d'accord avec nous même si j'avoue qu'elle a une façon de présenter son choix très séduisante !

Je supportais Apolline jusqu'à il y a peu, parce que certains de ses papiers sont vraiment excellents et intelligemment écrits. Mais elle a cassé du sucre sur Richie une fois de trop !
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