2013 Bundestagswahl (German Federal Election): A.Merkel def P.Steinbrück 42% - 26% - MensTennisForums.com

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Old 02-28-2008, 09:39 PM   #1
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Default 2013 Bundestagswahl (German Federal Election): A.Merkel def P.Steinbrück 42% - 26%

Today's Live TV debate was broadcast on 4 channels.



Hopefully a German version will appear on YT soon.


================================================== ================


Top German court clears European bailout fund

================================================== ================

Euro Hilfspaket + Heated Bundestag Exchange

Can't believe they agreed to this. The public won't be happy.

Greeks will never pay it back.


================================================== =============

Spiegel Online: The Greek Bailout Plan

Merkel's Risky Hand of Brussels Poker

German Chancellor Angela Merkel managed to convince the rest of the euro zone to back her concept for a Greek bailout. But the political price may be high: Miss Europe's stubbornness left many on the Continent shaking their heads.



================================================== =============

Bundestagswahl (General Election in Germany) September 2009:

Here are the full results:

http://wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de/flas...09-09-27-BT-DE
CDU/CSU 33,8%
SPD 23,0%
FDP 14,6%
Linke 11,9%
Grüne 10,7%
Piraten 1,9%
others 4,1%



Which party would you vote for? Check out the Wahl-O-Mat:

http://www.wahl-o-mat.de/bundestagswahl2009/index.php (German speakers)

http://www.wahl-o-mat.de/bundestagsw...ername=server4 (English speakers)



Christian Democratic Union of Germany
Leader: Angela Merkel
Domestic Policy: Christian-based, neoliberalism, fiscal conservatism and national conservatism. CDU emphasizes curtailing red tape and the preservation of cultural traditions.
Foreign Policy: European integration and a strong relation with the USA, since Germany needs USA as a bastion promoting peace and freedom. Opposes entry of Turkey into the EU. Besides citing human rights violations, CDU also believes Turkey's unwillingness to recognize Cyprus as an independent sovereign state goes against EU policy that members must recognize one another.
2005 Election: 35,2%
2009 Election: 33,8%



Social Democratic Party of Germany
Leader: Frank-Walter Steinmeier
Domestic Policy: Social democracy, representing the interests of working class and trade unions. The coordinated social market economy should be strengthened, and its output distributed fairly. Protect the society's disadvantaged with a welfare state. Sustainable fiscal policy that doesn't place a burden on future generations while eradicating budget deficits. Civil rights in an open society.
Foreign policy: Ensuring global peace by balancing global interests with democratic means. European integration is one of the main priorities of the SPD.
2005 Election: 34,2%
2009 Election: 23,0%



Free Democratic Party
Leader: Guido Westerwelle
Domestic Policy: Freedom, individual responsibility under a government "as extensive as necessary, and as limited as possible". Privatizations, deregulation, curtailing red tape, curtailing public subsidies, and reform of collective bargaining laws. Simplify the tax code; in the long run a flat tax would be considered. In energy policy, FDP supports combination of the use of renewable energies, coal, petroleum, and natural gas.
Foreign Policy: "For a Europe of freedom". The best guarantee for peace and freedom are rule of law, democracy and social market economy.
2005 Election: 9,8%
2009 Election: 14,6%



Alliance '90/The Greens
Leaders: Claudia Roth and Cem Özdemir
Domestic Policy: Combine economy and ecology. Open up new growth markets and preserve vital natural resources. Combat climate change with an energy-intelligent culture. Fight nuclear energy, prevent new coal plants!
Foreign Policy: Non-violence and protection of human rights. The new Europe of integration should leave the old Europe of nationalism behind.
2005 Election: 8,1%
2009 Election: 10,7%



Party of Democratic Socialism
Leader: Lothar Bisky
Domestic Policy: Reduce maximum daily working time of the individual, increase minimum wage. Progressive taxation of corporations and wealthy earners - introduction of a wealth tax. PDS also spoke out for the decriminalization of soft drugs like cannabis. Only renewable energy sources by 2050 and short-term withdrawal from nuclear energy.
Foreign Policy: The European Union remains civil, NATO is dissolved and replaced by a pan-European, international security system.
2005 Election: 8,7%
2009 Election: 11,9%





Angela Merkel (CDU Candidate)



================================================== =============================



The results of the 2005 General Election were as follows:

CDU/CSU 35.2%
SPD 34.2%
FDP 9.8%
Die Linke 8.7%
Die Grunen 8.1%

To get in power in Germany you need at least 50% of the total votes out of all major parties (ie all parties with more than 5% of the votes). Any party that gets less than 5% doesn't count. So, after various negotiations between parties, CDU/CSU and SPD together formed a government called the "Großer Koalition" with Angela Merkel (CDU) as Chancellor.



For a good idea of the current popularity level of each party, here's a very nice graphic:

http://www.spiegel.de/flash/0,5532,17440,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...623633,00.html

Black = CDU/CSU
Red = SPD
Purple = Die Linke
Yellow = FDP
Green = Die Grünen

Last edited by Jimnik : 09-22-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

again, i have to respecfully disagree on one point: fdp isn't "the most right-wing", they even call themselves "die liberalen" - that should give people some hint. they're the ones fighting for rights for homosexuals for example (along with the green party) and their head's gay. they're a completely capitalist party, that's right, but they've for example been opposing the idea of creating national champions in the business area and constantly vote for privatizations.

and regarding your last post in the other threads:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

And as I was saying in the other thread, it's really f***ed up here. Nothing much has changed since WW2. the results of the recent Hamburg election were like this:

CDU 43%
SPD 34%
Grüne 9.4%
Linke 6.5%
FDP 4.8%

So basically the communist party is more popular here than the free democrats. Even though the CDU were by far the most popular, if you combine all the votes, the "left wing" parties get more than 50%. And this is suppose to be one of the richer regions of the country. In East Germany you can imagine how much more popular the SPD and Linke are.

Germany are now in the middle of a major "tax scandal". Their solution is to cinduct tons of tax raids on the management of many major companies but to do this they need the help of Liechtenstein and Switzerland, where many of the accounts are held. But of course those countries are not willing to just give the German investigators free access to all the accounts.

So what are Germany going to do now? I would love to see what those politicians do if Liechtenstein and Switzerland just told them to f*** off and mind their own business.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
again, i have to respecfully disagree on one point: fdp isn't "the most right-wing", they even call themselves "die liberalen" - that should give people some hint. they're the ones fighting for rights for homosexuals for example (along with the green party) and their head's gay. they're a completely capitalist party, that's right, but they've for example been opposing the idea of creating national champions in the business area and constantly vote for privatizations.
Well I would say that "right wing/left wing" are not ideal ways of describing modern political parties. It's kind of a lazy thing where you would call all parties that believe in low taxes, the private sector as right wing and high taxes, government interference as left wing.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
But of course those countries are not willing to just give the German investigators free access to all the accounts.

So what are Germany going to do now? I would love to see what those politicians do if Liechtenstein and Switzerland just told them to f*** off and mind their own business.
Didn't the german secret services buy the list with the accounts ?
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
Great link.

Actually the 42% high tax band doesn't include the Krankenversicherung, Rentenversicherung and other shit you have to pay on top of it so it's actually close to 50%. Yes I know Scandinavia has always been very high but they're small countries and don't seem to have the same tax raids and foreign policies as Germany.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:09 PM   #7
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Didn't the german secret services buy the list with the accounts ?
I think they paid an informant working for one of the Liechtenstein banks but the authorities haven't cooperated yet.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
And as I was saying in the other thread, it's really f***ed up here. Nothing much has changed since WW2. the results of the recent Hamburg election were like this:

CDU 43%
SPD 34%
Grüne 9.4%
Linke 6.5%
FDP 4.8%


So basically the communist party is more popular here than the free democrats.


Even though the CDU were by far the most popular, if you combine all the votes, the "left wing" parties get more than 50%. And this is suppose to be one of the richer regions of the country. In East Germany you can imagine how much more popular the SPD and Linke are.

Germany are now in the middle of a major "tax scandal". Their solution is to cinduct tons of tax raids on the management of many major companies but to do this they need the help of Liechtenstein and Switzerland, where many of the accounts are held. But of course those countries are not willing to just give the German investigators free access to all the accounts.

So what are Germany going to do now? I would love to see what those politicians do if Liechtenstein and Switzerland just told them to f*** off and mind their own business.
many points:

1) if you consider germany bad concerning the left-wing, do you consider sweden or finland hell then? i mean, until last year, the social democrats have ruled those countries like a monarchy and guess what - they're very well off.

2) the greens nowadays don't have to be labelled as leftist in its actual sense as it is quite probable that they'll build a coalition with the cdu in hamburg.

3) hamburg is just like the big cities in the united states: urban areas tend to vote democratic over there, urban areas tend to vote social democratic over here (ruhr valley, hamburg, bremen, berlin etc.). there's nothing new and surely nothing "german" about it. if you go to rural areas in southern germany, you'd get a 70% vote for the cdu.

4) what is it with your "ww2"-reference? since ww2 we've had quite an equal share for both systems, with kohl as a pretty conservative statesman having the longest spell at the top. adenauer was conservative, so was erhardt - brandt was probably the most left chancellor, schmidt and schröder were pretty much centrist. just because the uk got from hardcore left to hardcore right and liberal doesn't mean that it's necesarily the right way to go. it's good as of now, but it's gonna be interesting once something like a recession hits you. there's gonna be blood, trust me (figuratively, of course), because up til now the only way was up for the british economy. one day there's gonna be a downturn and suddenly you realise that your energy's foreign, your billionaires reside in monaca no matter how low your taxes are (hello, mr. and mrs. green), people still emigrate to the states and the country's full of muslim immigrants. it's gonna be interesting, that's for sure.

5) regarding liechtenstein - the uk wanted to get a copy of that disc as well. go figure. and if they tell us to eff off? well, i think we are probably gonna have insight into every single transaction from and to liechtenstein from and to germany. period.

btw: what would you do with a country like liechtenstein or in your case jersey, the isle of man, the whole virgin islands, cayman islands and so on? i bet britain's hurt way more than germany because of legal and illegal tax evasion alike. just seems like you guys don't care about that - not yet, that is.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Great link.

Actually the 42% high tax band doesn't include the Krankenversicherung, Rentenversicherung and other shit you have to pay on top of it so it's actually close to 50%.
i'll give you that. but so what? it still isn't that much heavier than the british taxes - corporate taxes are a little over germany', so is the vat. so how are you gonna make a point here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
Yes I know Scandinavia has always been very high but they're small countries and don't seem to have the same tax raids and foreign policies as Germany.
they don't have the policies because they can't afford to bully other nations. and they don't have the tax raids because usually scandinavians just pay taxes the way it's supposed to be. you know why? because a) they trust the state with its infrastructure, education system and so and and b) people have insight into their neighbor's taxation. everyone can look it up, it's a public thing. so tax evasion's pretty much frowned upon.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Well I would say that "right wing/left wing" are not ideal ways of describing modern political parties. It's kind of a lazy thing where you would call all parties that believe in low taxes, the private sector as right wing and high taxes, government interference as left wing.
i know, but given that many americans are on mtf, i think it might be confusing to have you labelling the fdp as "right-wing". the fdp would probably be divided up evenly between the democrats and the republicans if they were to emigrate collectively, but i get the feeling that most of them are rather leaning towards the democrats as they loooovidoooove the "rechtsstaat" even more than their economically liberal policies.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
many points:

1) if you consider germany bad concerning the left-wing, do you consider sweden or finland hell then? i mean, until last year, the social democrats have ruled those countries like a monarchy and guess what - they're very well off.

2) the greens nowadays don't have to be labelled as leftist in its actual sense as it is quite probable that they'll build a coalition with the cdu in hamburg.

3) hamburg is just like the big cities in the united states: urban areas tend to vote democratic over there, urban areas tend to vote social democratic over here (ruhr valley, hamburg, bremen, berlin etc.). there's nothing new and surely nothing "german" about it. if you go to rural areas in southern germany, you'd get a 70% vote for the cdu.

4) what is it with your "ww2"-reference? since ww2 we've had quite an equal share for both systems, with kohl as a pretty conservative statesman having the longest spell at the top. adenauer was conservative, so was erhardt - brandt was probably the most left chancellor, schmidt and schröder were pretty much centrist. just because the uk got from hardcore left to hardcore right and liberal doesn't mean that it's necesarily the right way to go. it's good as of now, but it's gonna be interesting once something like a recession hits you. there's gonna be blood, trust me (figuratively, of course), because up til now the only way was up for the british economy. one day there's gonna be a downturn and suddenly you realise that your energy's foreign, your billionaires reside in monaca no matter how low your taxes are (hello, mr. and mrs. green), people still emigrate to the states and the country's full of muslim immigrants. it's gonna be interesting, that's for sure.

5) regarding liechtenstein - the uk wanted to get a copy of that disc as well. go figure. and if they tell us to eff off? well, i think we are probably gonna have insight into every single transaction from and to liechtenstein from and to germany. period.

btw: what would you do with a country like liechtenstein or in your case jersey, the isle of man, the whole virgin islands, cayman islands and so on? i bet britain's hurt way more than germany because of legal and illegal tax evasion alike. just seems like you guys don't care about that - not yet, that is.
1) No, and of course i don't think Left Wing = Automatic Doom and Gloom. I admit I've never lived in Sweden or Finland yet and maybe those politicians would annoy me even more.

2) I know, and if you read my other post you'll see I don't fully believe in this terminology "right wing/left wing". It's just a lazy way of summarizing political beliefs. Yes I know about the possible Black-Green coalition but it would be a first and you know as well as I do that they would much rather form coalitions with SPD and Linke.

3) Interesting point. Yes I know about America but it doesn't always apply. For instance in London the Conservatives are much more popular than in the rural regions in Northen England and Scotland. Germany only has the one major urban area and that's Berlin. Hamburg is only a little larger than Munich so you can't really generalize like that.

4) Yes but I'm mostly talking about the last 15 years, since the country was re-united. East Germany has always been the poorer part of the country and tends to vote for more state control than the West and especially the South. You're right, I probably shouldn't make too many references to WW2 but I just feel the same resentment towards rich entrepeneurs has to be mentioned here. It's exactly this attitude and anger that led to the hatred of the Jews. While they've been kissing Israel's ass for the last 60 years, they still bare the same hatred towards rich people. Germans aren't racists but they have other issues.

5) We'll see. Personally I hope not.

Well you hit the nail on the head with your last comment. BRITS DON'T CARE - thats the point. Germans should learn not to get so worked up everytime they hear about someone evading taxes.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Great link.

Actually the 42% high tax band doesn't include the Krankenversicherung, Rentenversicherung and other shit you have to pay on top of it so it's actually close to 50%. Yes I know Scandinavia has always been very high but they're small countries and don't seem to have the same tax raids and foreign policies as Germany.
Scandinavia does have frequent tax raids and they usually find things.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/bu...cle2238140.ece

Eltek boss admits tax evasion

Morten Angelil, the 41-year-old chief executive of Eltek, has admitted that he failed to report taxable gains on share sales. He still denies, though, charges of misusing insider information.

Morten Angelil still denies misusing insider information in Eltek stock trades.


Both Angelil and his Eltek associate Lars Jerven have been in police custody since late last week, when they were arrested for trading Eltek shares in 2003 based on insider information.

A court ordered them held in isolation for four weeks, while police continue to investigate charges against them.

Angelil, whose father founded the Eltek telecommunications equipment firm, and Jerven are charged with anonymously trading Eltek shares through overseas bank accounts.

Both men deny charges of misusing insider information but Angelil has admitted to tax evasion charges. He disputes an amount claimed by prosecutors, and neither side will confirm the amount of money involved.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/bu...cle2002679.ece


Former mayor's daughter leaves Hydro job after tax scandal

Former Oslo mayor’s daughter Cecilie Ditlev-Simonsen Wednesday resigned as head of communications in the partly state owned company Norsk Hydro, after last month’s tax evasion scandal involving her and her father.


Cecilie Ditlev-Simonsen has been on paid leave from her job since the tax scandal involving her and her father, former Oslo mayor Per Ditlev-Simonsen, was made public in August.

Both father and daughter admitted to having funds in a secret Swiss bank account that they never declared to the tax authorities in the 1990s. The scandal ultimately led to the mayor’s resignation ahead of the local election.

Cecilie Ditlev-Simonsen leaves her job with a guaranteed income of NOK 2,55 millions (about USD 450,000) in the next year and a half.

"After her period of notice of six months, she will receive her salary for another 11 months," a press release from Hydro stated.

Ditlev-Simonsen said in a press release that "her heart was still with Hydro," but added that she found it difficult to continue in her position after it was known that she had failed to declare to the tax authorities the money, amounting to NOK 750,000 (about USD 130,000), she inherited from her late mother.

CEO of Hydro Eivind Reiten thanked Ditlev-Simonsen for the work she had done for the company.

"I am sorry about the situation, but I see that it would be difficult for Cecilie to continue in this position. I thank her for a communications job well done, and wish her all the luck in the future," he said.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

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1) No, and of course i don't think Left Wing = Automatic Doom and Gloom. I admit I've never lived in Sweden or Finland yet and maybe those politicians would annoy me even more.
you bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
2) I know, and if you read my other post you'll see I don't fully believe in this terminology "right wing/left wing". It's just a lazy way of summarizing political beliefs. Yes I know about the possible Black-Green coalition but it would be a first and you know as well as I do that they would much rather form coalitions with SPD and Linke.
that's right, but it's changing rapidly. these days' greens aren't even comparable to those freaks starting the whole movement during the 80s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
3) Interesting point. Yes I know about America but it doesn't always apply. For instance in London the Conservatives are much more popular than in the rural regions in Northen England and Scotland. Germany only has the one major urban area and that's Berlin. Hamburg is only a little larger than Munich so you can't really generalize like that.
hm? why not? close to 100% of the urban areas in germany vote social democratic, just like in the states. hamburg, the whole ruhr valley, frankfurt, stuttgart, berlin and so on. even munich got an spd-bürgermeister (aren't you in munich?).

[quote=Jimnik]
4) Yes but I'm mostly talking about the last 15 years, since the country was re-united. East Germany has always been the poorer part of the country and tends to vote for more state control than the West and especially the South. You're right, I probably shouldn't make too many references to WW2 but I just feel the same resentment towards rich entrepeneurs has to be mentioned here. It's exactly this attitude and anger that led to the hatred of the Jews. While they've been kissing Israel's ass for the last 60 years, they still bare the same hatred towards rich people. Germans aren't racists but they have other issues.
[/QUOTE)

so you really feel "hatred" towards entrepreneurs? wow. i never got that feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
5)...

Well you hit the nail on the head with your last comment. Brits DON'T CARE - thats the point. Germans should learn not to get so worked up everytime they hear about someone evading taxes.
yeah, you guys just like to get fooled by the big dogs. once the unions got crushed by thatcher, there's just no balance anymore in the uk, just like in the states. you got the big money on the one hand and no voice for the other hand.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

Thanks for the articles PMK.

I stand corrected on Scandinavia. We never seem to get any news from that region in Britain and Germany.

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
hm? why not? close to 100% of the urban areas in germany vote social democratic, just like in the states. hamburg, the whole ruhr valley, frankfurt, stuttgart, berlin and so on. even munich got an spd-bürgermeister (aren't you in munich?).
Yes I am but I don't get the same pro-SPD impression that you get.

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so you really feel "hatred" towards entrepreneurs? wow. i never got that feeling.
You don't think all this tax evasion scandal has created hatred? I've heard nothing but outrage over "immoral behaviour" from people in the news and on political debates. I sense a lot of anger.

Quote:
yeah, you guys just like to get fooled by the big dogs. once the unions got crushed by thatcher, there's just no balance anymore in the uk, just like in the states. you got the big money on the one hand and no voice for the other hand.
Getting fooled or just ignoring it?

"There's no balance anymore"? What kind of nonsense is that? Thatcher was the only PM who had the guts to stand up to the unions and it was the only chance the country had of avoiding a complete stand-still.

Like I said in the other thread, politicians annoy me in almost every country but it all has to be relative. You have to accept that no-where is perfect and appreciate the good aspects. I use to hate British politics a lot more when I was living there because I never appreciated its good aspects, which I do now.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Deutsche Politik

Will join in the chat tomorrow, off to bed now.. but nice thread Jimnik; Im studying German at university at the moment so I like to think that Im in the loop..
The Left's 6% advancement in Stuttgart a few days ago concerned me.. [bleh.. too tired for more]
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