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Old 05-16-2009, 12:42 PM   #181
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Thanks nkp2
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:01 PM   #182
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

buddyholly posted this in the Madrid thread, it sounds like a good idea to me maybe we can have a vote on it or if it will be problematic rankings-wise to do it mid-season maybe discuss it in the off-season. I've always thought it's a lot more impressive to predict that, say, Gil will make a hardcourt semifinal or Hernych will beat Youzhny than to predict nadal as champion of a clay tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I should not bring this up, because it seems I may win two weeks in a row, but I think there is a flaw in our scoring system. In the real world the champion gets 1000 points for winning the tournament. In our FITD the champion gets 1000 points for winning the final, 600 points for winning his semifinal, 360 points for winning his quarterfinal, etc. Thus our results are heavily skewed towards the tournament winner and the points gained for picking winners in the early rounds become irrelevant. The scoring should really accumulate, thus today's four players should have accumulated a total of 360 points each by now and the winners today can add 240 points each, bringing their total to 600.

For example, chowdahead could win this week if Federer wins the final, but under actual points awarded his total draw would not have got the most points. OK, I know the ATP Challenge does the same thing, but I do think picking the winner of a match in round one is often harder than picking the winner in the final. Any opinions?
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:15 PM   #183
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

I agree. Rather than getting say 1000+600+360+180+90+10 for Nadal, you get just 1000 points if he wins and you predicted him to win. That way it's more like the ATP scoring. I mean, Nadal doesn't get over 2000 points does he. Excellent idea, but probably very difficult to change mid season. Not to mention next season with the rankings, unless you wanted to start from scratch.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:40 PM   #184
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

But people will still finish in 1, 2, 3, etc. place, the actual points earned during the tournament don't have anything to do with ranking points earned for what place you finished overall. Someone who wins FITD with the highest score gets the same # of ranking points regardless of whether he had 1320 total points or 400 total points in the FITD game. (I think... I don't really deal with rankings so maybe d_s can confirm ) The only thing that would be affected is jcreback's "total points" rankings which are fun and really interesting but they're not the "real" rankings."
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:57 PM   #185
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Thanks snoo foo for transfering my post. I agree it would be too complicated to change the rules in mid-season. It is something to think about for the future. My gut feeling is that those hard to predict first round matches do not get enough weight in the total score.

Of course I gave no thought at all to all you good people who deal with statistics and rankings!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:57 PM   #186
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
But people will still finish in 1, 2, 3, etc. place, the actual points earned during the tournament don't have anything to do with ranking points earned for what place you finished overall. Someone who wins FITD with the highest score gets the same # of ranking points regardless of whether he had 1320 total points or 400 total points in the FITD game. (I think... I don't really deal with rankings so maybe d_s can confirm ) The only thing that would be affected is jcreback's "total points" rankings which are fun and really interesting but they're not the "real" rankings."
Right yes of course. The only thing it would mean is that some people would have won with the old system but hardly worth changing all the scores around just for that.

Personally I think we should vote and I would change it for the start of Wimbledon. Run a poll perhaps or ask the managers up until Eastbourne if we want to change it for wimbly.

MY ARGUMENT: If I pick 1/16 players correctly for the 2nd round of a clay tournament, and that player is Nadal who goes on to win the tournament which I have picked him to do, I will get more points than someone who picks all 16 2nd round players AND all 8 quarter finalists but nothing beyond that. Massively unfair really.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:19 AM   #187
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

I honestly never thought about this strange thing, but I found out that in the "battle of the boards" a different way of finding points is used, which I think takes the different proportions into account.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:21 AM   #188
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

I think this is a good idea too, I've never thought of this before either. This wouldn't change the rankings either, because as Snoo Foo mentioned the rankings would still rank players 1, 2, 3, ... (and 1st place would still get 1000, 2nd 600 etc.) If we were to change, it would affect how us managers run the tournaments though. Say Nadal (or any other player) makes it to round 2 of a tournament, the manager would have to go back and delete the points given for Nadal in round 1 and give Nadal the round 2 points, and so on as that player progresses through the tournament. Also we'd have to change how we make our daily our roundly updates by showing the number of correct picks or something for each round instead of the total points, because say a player correctly predicts 2 semifinalists who go on to make the finals, that player would not receive any points in the semifinal round although he/she did make 2 correct picks in the round.

Hopefully my post makes sense, I think I'm kind of confusing myself too...

and I think if we were going to use this new system, we could choose a smaller tournament one week (I was thinking maybe even Kitzbuhel next week if Snoo Foo is up for it) and just try it out and see what people think. If it goes well and people are fine with it, we can just use this new system from now on.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:18 PM   #189
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

I don't think you have to delete the earlier points. You just have to add the difference on for the next round.

I.e. rather than a final winner of a masters series getting 1000 points on top of what we have already given them, they get 400 to go with the points they have already.

1R-45
2R-45 (90 total)
3r-90 (180 total)
QF-180 (360 total)
SF- 240 (600 total)
F- 400 (1000 total)

You just have to change the "correct pick in round" scoring points. Easy!
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:32 PM   #190
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_s View Post
and I think if we were going to use this new system, we could choose a smaller tournament one week (I was thinking maybe even Kitzbuhel next week if Snoo Foo is up for it) and just try it out and see what people think. If it goes well and people are fine with it, we can just use this new system from now on.
you read my mind, i was thinking of giving it a whirl for demonstration purposes and also to see how the outcome compares to the current scoring system

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkp2 View Post
I don't think you have to delete the earlier points. You just have to add the difference on for the next round.
you're brilliant, i never even thought of that :retard:, i was also thinking we'd just have to go back and delete the previous round points
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:33 PM   #191
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
you read my mind, i was thinking of giving it a whirl for demonstration purposes and also to see how the outcome compares to the current scoring system



you're brilliant, i never even thought of that :retard:, i was also thinking we'd just have to go back and delete the previous round points


Maths is my forte *looks for geek smiley*
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:44 PM   #192
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Yeah, way better idea, nkp2 That would be much smarter and easier to do!

and Snoo Foo, probably just make an announcement in the FITD Kitzbuhel thread so everyone knows what's going on. We'll see how everything works out later
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:29 PM   #193
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
you're brilliant, i never even thought of that :retard:, i was also thinking we'd just have to go back and delete the previous round points
DUH!

I saw your comparison in the Kitzbuhl thread. Hopefully you will do the same when the tournament is over and we can see how it did, and would have, ended. Although that is a tournament of so many upsets, that anything could happen.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:53 PM   #194
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

yeah it's prolly not the best tournament for this demonstration cuz there were so many withdrawals , generally very low-scoring so prolly not much difference between current scores and demo scores
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Old 05-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #195
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Default Re: 2009 FITD Management Thread

Do you have points to defend for RG???

Thanks in advance.
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