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View Poll Results: Is Hinduism more or less rational than the major religions?

It's more rational. 1 3.70%
It's less rational. 3 11.11%
It is no more and no less rational than any other religion ou there. 12 44.44%
I don't know enough about it to give an educated opinion. 11 40.74%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2008, 01:50 AM   #166
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post


The whole thing is that some people - yes, that includes me - think there's no need to believe in a 'god'. Why do you feel the need there should be 'Someone looking after us?'- I don't get it. Just treat your fellows like you want to be treated youself, eh?
In the end, all of us just end up 'Dust to Dust'. And there's nothing wrong with that, I think...
Exactly. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. The golden rule. As you say, we do not need faith to be good people.

In actual fact, the bible would be a horrible place from which to build a code of ethics. Anyone who has read the old testament knows how appalling our society would be if we got our morality from the bible. It advocates ****, slavery, murder etc.

Over and above all that, I'm interested in the truth. Even if belief in God and subscribing to religion made me eternally happy, I could not force myself to believe in something I believe is completely false.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:53 AM   #167
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by MrsFedex View Post
I do get your point now Clydey
it's up to everyone to believe or not, as long as you don't hurt others, you're free to do with your life and your beliefs (or lack of) as you please
what I cannot stand on any level is intolerance, which is the mother (greed is the father ) of all human issues
Yes, people are free to believe what they want to believe. I was raised Catholic, in actual fact. I merely objected to another poster suggesting that disbelief in deities is irrational. I really wanted to leave this thread alone, but that comment dragged me back in

It's unfortunate that religion can be used as a tool for hate. That's the problem. Religion is a powerful tool that allows a person to justify almost any action.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:53 AM   #168
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Is my lack of belief in fairies also irrational?
Just as irrational as believing in a 'god' I think.

In Richard Dawkins's Scale of Atheism, I guess I score a 6/7.
Thing is, I have no problem with that at all. One day, we'll just decease to excist, and what's the problem? Come on. I'll just be buried or cremated, and my dust will enable plants to grow - and that's just IT. No need to make ourselves any more important than just *that*.

As long as you're allowed to roam 'Planet Earth', just make the best of it. That's ALL of a religion that I feel attracted to, nothing more... nothing less.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:57 AM   #169
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post
Just as irrational as believing in a 'god' I think.

In Richard Dawkins's Scale of Atheism, I guess I score a 6/7.
Thing is, I have no problem with that at all. One day, we'll just decease to excist, and what's the problem? Come on. I'll just be buried or cremated, and my dust will enable plants to grow - and that's just IT. No need to make ourselves any more important than just *that*.

As long as you're allowed to roam 'Planet Earth', just make the best of it. That's ALL of a religion that I feel attracted to, nothing more... nothing less.
I think your stance on religion is pretty close to my own. I'm maybe a little more hostile to the concept of religion than you.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:58 AM   #170
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
In actual fact, the bible would be a horrible place from which to build a code of ethics. Anyone who has read the old testament knows how appalling our society would be if we got our morality from the bible. It advocates ****, slavery, murder etc.
Yep. Atrocious book, and some call it the 'Word of God???' :retard:
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:01 AM   #171
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
I think your stance on religion is pretty close to my own. I'm maybe a little more hostile to the concept of religion than you.
Let's just say that I'm still open to surprises for that matter, but so far, I haven't seen anything near to that yet - I'm nursing a friend of mine, ten years my junior, who'se suffering from lethal cancer right now.

Thank you God, you FUCKING Misantrope, is all I have to say about that.

EDIT: If a god indeed exists - it's a bloody Misantrope.
I don't mind going to HELL for saying this!
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:03 AM   #172
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Yep. Atrocious book, and some call it the 'Word of God???' :retard:
You can't really excuse it either. God's word is supposed to be inerrant, so I have no idea how one reconciles one's morality with the old testament.

Don't even get me started on honour killings. I read a horrible story not so long ago about a young muslim girl who became friends with someone in the British army. Her father objected to this and began to beat her to death for bringing shame on the family. Her mother called on her brothers to stop the father. However, the brothers joined in and helped their father beat the girl to death.

That infuriates me.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:05 AM   #173
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post
Let's just say that I'm still open to surprises for that matter, but so far, I haven't seen anything near to that yet - I'm nursing a friend of mine, ten years my junior, who'se suffering from lethal cancer right now.

Thank you God, you FUCKING Misantrope, is all I have to say about that.

EDIT: If a god indeed exists - it's a bloody Misantrope.
I don't mind going to HELL for saying this!
Exactly. You just have to look at what goes on in the world, all the injustices, the atrocities. If a God does exist, is it a God even worth worshipping?
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:06 AM   #174
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

very valid points guys, but like I said: you cannot judge all religious people for the mistakes of some of them

and I gotta repeat myself: more dangerous than religion itself is INTOLERANCE, you can be religious and be tolerant or atheist and intolerant or all the way around, both things aren't mutually exclusive

I don't agree with everything the church does, but I do try to live my religion as I think it should be lived, don't follow the Bible blindly (after all, there's free will ) I live happy and it gives me a sense of direction and of peace, so it's good for me

my family is very religious (my mom goes to church every day ), I have two uncles who are jesuits but still I'm not a blind follower and I can respect atheists and other religions, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything

it's not about critics of other people's beliefs or lack of them, it's about respecting each other as humans and our differences
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:09 AM   #175
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Quote where I said that homosexuals are biologically inferior.

Take your time. You'll need it.
Clydey, shut up!
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:35 AM   #176
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Exactly. You just have to look at what goes on in the world, all the injustices, the atrocities. If a God does exist, is it a God even worth worshipping?
I don't think so. I will be very happy rotting down in the ground when I die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsFedex View Post
and I gotta repeat myself: more dangerous than religion itself is INTOLERANCE, you can be religious and be tolerant or atheist and intolerant or all the way around, both things aren't mutually exclusive


BTW, don't misunderstand me - I think there is a lot of value in religion after all - but I'd rather follow Jesus' words than the official Church's. Jesus was indeed a Good Fella - but OMG, not his followers, I think - the institutional Catholic Church, I mean.

Yep, for your information, I was brought up as a catholic as well.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:42 AM   #177
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

I'm a catholic, but sometimes the church is...

I know excellent people on it, some awesome priests and missionaries who are very devoted to help people, but usually higher ranges like bishops are

I'm not blind to the sins of the church I belong to, but like I said: it is formed by humans, so there are a lot of the best and worst of humanity on it

I don't know if you speak spanish (if you don't I can translate), but there is a beautiful song about this...

it's called Jesus verbo no sustantivo (Jesus is a verb, not a sustantive)



Quote:
Ayer, Jesus afino mi guitarra y agudizo mis sentidos, me inspiro
Papel y lapiz en mano apunto la cancion y me negue a escribir
Porque hablar y escribir sobre Jesus es redundar, seria mejor actuar
Luego, algo me dijo que la unica forma de no redundar es decir la verdad
Decir que a Jesus le gusta que actuemos no que hablemos
Decir que Jesus es mas que cinco letras formando un nombre
Decir que Jesus es verbo no sustantivo

Jesus es mas que una simple y llana teoria
¿Que haces hermano leyendo la Biblia todo el dia?
Lo que alli esta escrito se resume en amor vamos, ve y practicalo
Jesus hermanos mios es verbo, no sustantivo

Jesus es mas que un templo de lujo con tendencia barroca
El sabe que total a la larga esto no es mas que roca
La iglesia se lleva en el alma y en los actos no se te olvide
Que Jesus hermanos mios es verbo, no sustantivo

Jesus es mas que un grupo de señoras de muy negra conciencia
Que pretenden ganarse el cielo con club de beneficencia
Si quieres tu ser miembro activa, tendras que presentar a la directiva
Tu cuenta de ahorros en Suiza y vinculos oficiales

Jesus es mas que persignarse, hincarse y hacer de esto alarde
El sabe que quiza por dentro la conciencia les arde
Jesus es mas que una flor en el altar salvadora de pecados
Jesus hermanos mios es verbo, no sustantivo

Jesus convertia en hechos todos sus sermones
Que si tomas cafe es pecado dicen los Mormones
Tienen tan poco que hacer que andan inventando cada cosa
Jesus hermanos mios es verbo, no sustantivo

Jesus no entiende por que en el culto le aplauden
Hablan de honestidad sabiendo que el diezmo es un fraude
A Jesus le da asco el pastor que se hace rico con la fe
Jesus hermanos mios es verbo, no sustantivo

De mi barrio la mas religiosa era doña Carlota
Hablaba de amor al projimo y me poncho cien pelotas
Desde niño fui aprendiendo que la religion no es mas que un metodo
Con el titulo prohibido pensar que ya todo esta escrito

Me bautizaron cuando tenia dos meses y a mi no me avisaron
Hubo fiesta piñata y a mi ni me preguntaron
Bautizame tu Jesus por favor asi entre amigos
Se que odias el protocolo hermano mio

Señores no dividan la fe las fronteras son para los paises
En este mundo hay mas religiones que niños felices
Jesus penso "me hare invisible para que todos mis hermanos
Dejen de estar hablando tanto de mi y se tiendan la mano"

Jesus eres el mejor testigo del amor que te profeso
Tengo la conciencia tranquila por eso no me confieso
Rezando dos padres nuestros el asesino no revive a su muerto
Jesus hermanos mios es verbo no sustantivo

Jesus no bajes a la tierra quedate alla arriba
Todos los que han pensado como tu ya estan boca arriba
Olvidados en algun cementerio, de equipaje sus ideales
Murieron con la sonrisa en los labios porque fueron
Verbo y no sustantivo
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:53 AM   #178
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by MrsFedex View Post
excellent post Ghost! (I'm Nat, what's your name? )
I'm Rohan, good to meet(?) you.
I agree with your clarifications too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
You cannot prove a negative. Can you scientifically prove that fairies don't exist? Of course you can't.

Most atheists would consider themselves a 6 on that scale. They have a firm belief that God doesn't exist, but don't assert with 100% conviction. We cannot be certain of anything, after all. Therefore, technically we are agnostics. In practice, we are atheists.

I am an Afairiest, too. I don't believe that fairies exist, but I cannot say that with 100% certainty. No one can. The point is that if you say a supernatural deity exists, the burden of proof is on you. It is literally impossible for anyone to debunk that claim, just as it is impossible for anyone to disprove the existence of fairies.

Is my lack of belief in fairies also irrational?
While you are right, deductive reasoning cannot prove that god doesn't exist, you need to recognize something.

The statement of Atheism is that God does not exist. (a negative)
Therefore, you are stating that the universe was not created by god. (a negative)
Therefore you are stating that reality/the universe originated by some other means.

You could demonstrate that "god", in one of the senses denoted by an organized religion, does not exist by determining a true, and obviously different, origin and nature of reality/the universe. Yes I realize this is impossible for us now, but who can say whether or not it will ALWAYS be beyond the means of humanity?

The issue is not really one of disproving a negative.

Second, I know i just played off semantics here. When I said athiesm is irrational, I mean to say that belief that no kind of higher power exists in the world, as any higher power of any kind could be given a symbol, or not if you so chose, and called a deity. Given our limited knowledge regarding the origins of the universe I think it would be irrational for anyone to claim pure athiesm and say with 100% conviction that no higher power exists. And I assume you mean disproving the existence of the specific dieties postulated by the organized religions that exist in our world. In that you would be correct, it is no different than trying to disprove the belief in fairies, or any other imaginary construct.

Also, you are right. Being a 6 on the scale of athiesm technically makes you an agnostic. Which is rational.

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Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post


In the end, all of us just end up 'Dust to Dust'. And there's nothing wrong with that, I think...
Here's my personal (and i guess probably strange) view:
The laws of conservation of energy and matter are essentially an athiest/agnostic's immortality, especially if you consider frames of reference. One frame of reference could be the level of society, where we view things on the level of organisms (ourselves). Another frame of reference could be the molecular or cellular levels. Alternatively, you could look at the universe as a single isolated system. You as a human being are simply a piece of that system, composed of simpler parts (matter and energy when it gets down to it). When you die, it is not some spiritual event, those simpler parts are simply being recycled to construct other elements of the greater isolated system. There is nothing to fear or be sad about in dying, you are simply changing form from being one part of reality at large to another.

I thank physics and chemistry for my peace of mind.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:57 AM   #179
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

chemists to the power!
nice to meet you Rohan!
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:06 AM   #180
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Default Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by GhostUnholy View Post
I'm Rohan, good to meet(?) you.
I agree with your clarifications too.

I thank physics and chemistry for my peace of mind.
Hi there, Rohan! Beautiful name you have...

Yeah, I fully agree with you there. My dust will supply the grass, the birds, the animals to live on... nothing wrong with that.
In all, I think it is a kind-of-a-comforting thought.

Isn't it a rather egocentric thought that we, mere stupid humans, are more important than that? I think so. Face it, Planet Earth has been there without us for a gazillion of years - don't overestimate your personal importance...
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