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Old 12-01-2008, 08:26 PM   #511
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

Hi there GhostUnholy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostUnholy View Post
Just out of interest, I was wondering how purely you guys stick to the traditional definitions of prog when talking about progressive music. Personally I feel many bands in other genres are essentially progressive, even if they incorporate very little influence from the 'roots' of progressive rock.
As you will see when you scroll through this thread, the definition of 'what-is-prog-and-what-not' is a very difficult one, and you'll barely ever find two proggies agreeing on this matter...

I guess I'm rather in agreement with you on this matter, and surely don't think that only 'classic prog' (the 1970's era, to say it bluntly) is indeed 'prog'. Nope, IMHO, the genre has evolved continuously, taking up influences from about EVERYWHERE (ever heard of 'Prog Andaluz'? - it's a Spanish/Moorish subgenre, combining classic prog with... flamenco! - I'm sure Gu HATES it ) - and as such, prog is alive and kicking!

You might find this: 'Progarchives.com's Guide to Progressive Rock' an interesting read.

Quote:
For example, lots of technical DM bands are very progressive, but people for the most part wouldn't classify them as prog metal.
Fully agree with you here. Though I definitely consider myself a 'metal-head' as well as a progger, I don't think 99% of DM bands belong to the prog genre, but I do keep an open ear to them, and don't be surprised if one day, a DM band comes up with something that is most definitely PROG! No wonder, ProgArchives.com has a special section on Tech/Extreme Prog Metal, too.

Quote:
The best example i can find in my collection is "The Armageddon Theories" from Theory in Practice. I couldn't find a decent vid for them on youtube, but I found a link to their album download, am I allowed to post it here? If not metal and prog fans and musicians in general should try to get a copy of this album as it is MINDBLOWING, to me at least.
A less good example but the first one I can find off the top of my head is this song:
Thanks for the vid, interesting at least! I'll put it on my downloads.
Don't know whether we are allowed to post download links, actually - does someone know about MTF's policy on this? It is after all, eh, illegal...

Quote:
I'm in no way shape or form claiming that the above song should truly be called prog, but I feel if an album like DT's Train of Thought is really prog, many other albums could be classified as such as well. I suppose other examples would be Decrepit Birth's album "Diminishing Between Worlds" or Spawn of Posession's stuff maybe.
A lot of proggers, even the DT-fans, had a bit of a hard time with ToT because it tends to be rather 'metal' than prog. One of their weakest albums imho, but I know that there are plenty people out there who don't agree with me on that. That's one of the problems with classifying BANDS as a whole within a certain genre... I mean, is Genesis' 'I Can't Dance' (:retard:-crap I think) Prog? I don't think so...

Quote:
Similarly, other genres will see a lot of progressive elements. For instance, I suppose the following is indie rock, but in some ways I see it as more progressive than some modern bands in the traditional prog vein that are really just derivatives of older bands. (apologies for the pink video, and I'm not sure if the entire song is there but I assume so)
Again, fully agree with you!
I consider a lot of Indie Bands that have clear Prog-influences - Radiohead, Mogwai, Sigur Ros, to name but a few - a lot more 'progressive' than those copying 1970's Genesis stuff... needless to say, these bands as well are included at ProgArchives.com, and rightly so.

Quote:
What do you guys think about how prog should be defined? From a purist perspective, or is one of the wider definitions more appropriate? Also I apologize if I just made a fool of myself, just wanted to start some discussion if I could. I'm a metalhead first and an everything else fan later, so my knowledge of prog probably pales compared to you guys!
I am most definitely a fan of the wider definition - I'd like to say anything 'adventurous, eclectic, conciously non-commercial, 'difficult' music' is PROG. Gu is on the other far end of the spectrum, and obviously is a purist - and I'm sure he has his good reasonings for that opinion just as I have for mine...

You haven't made a fool of yourself at all. This is an interesting subject, and I am just happy to see yet another metalhead venturing in the mesmerizing musical journey that is prog... welcome aboard, mate!
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:32 PM   #512
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

you're a bad influence Karin
make us join the prog-dark side
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:39 PM   #513
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

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you're a bad influence Karin
make us join the prog-dark side
- nah, seriously, I think that people from 'other' musical genres wanting to check out the genre is what keeps the genre alive.

If, for instance, Dream Theater and Opeth - both hailing from the Death Metal scene - didn't start making prog at a certain stage in their careers, the genre wouldn't have had 10% of the following it has right now.

I visited the latest concerts of Opeth and Rush in my country, and was very pleased to see old grey proggers wearing a Rush-tee at the Opeth-concert, and 16-year old young metallists wearing Opeth-tees at the Rush concert.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:39 PM   #514
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

Great post unholy, i know a lot of people in this thread like the prog rock thats going on today and thats cool its everyones choice but for me its a pile of shit well most of it and a lot of it i wouldnt call it prog rock, its a bit like when you hear todays 'soul' music and its not what i call soul from the 60's its a new type that is a pile of bollox, but i would say that because i was brought up on music from the past and not today, for me the classic bands/the 70's will always be the best prog rock and i dont think it can be beaten, but i have a very cynical view on it and todays music, for me i like all sorts of music, stadium tock,prog rock,heavy rock,punk,soul like motown,northern,Philly soul etc, aswell as all the 60's 70's bands like the who,stones,beach boys etc etc i have an open mind and like most music
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:12 PM   #515
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

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Originally Posted by ryan23 View Post
Great post unholy, i know a lot of people in this thread like the prog rock thats going on today and thats cool its everyones choice but for me its a pile of shit well most of it and a lot of it i wouldnt call it prog rock, its a bit like when you hear todays 'soul' music and its not what i call soul from the 60's its a new type that is a pile of bollox, but i would say that because i was brought up on music from the past and not today, for me the classic bands/the 70's will always be the best prog rock and i dont think it can be beaten, but i have a very cynical view on it and todays music, for me i like all sorts of music, stadium tock,prog rock,heavy rock,punk,soul like motown,northern,Philly soul etc, aswell as all the 60's 70's bands like the who,stones,beach boys etc etc i have an open mind and like most music
Just for the record, how many of the contemporary Prog artists do you have actually listened to?

I just recieved a true new GEM in my inbox this very evening - this fellow's latest asset - and it's bloody miraculous.

Here's an illegal download for you to enjoy : Steven Wilson's Harmony Korine - from his latest upcoming solo-album "Insurgentes". Yep, the download is highly illegal as the CD isn't even out yet. As Mr. S.W.'s record company ordered me to take down some youtube stuff I posted of his Tilburg gig with Procupine Tree - within just one day, I wonder how long it will survive...

If that ain't prog... okay. I'll rest my case.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:36 PM   #516
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Contemporary prog suuuuuucks.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:43 PM   #517
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

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Contemporary prog suuuuuucks.
Hey you bugger. You're going to win the ACC anyways. No need for further campaigning - at least not HERE.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:45 PM   #518
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I guess I'm rather in agreement with you on this matter, and surely don't think that only 'classic prog' (the 1970's era, to say it bluntly) is indeed 'prog'. Nope, IMHO, the genre has evolved continuously, taking up influences from about EVERYWHERE (ever heard of 'Prog Andaluz'? - it's a Spanish/Moorish subgenre, combining classic prog with... flamenco! - I'm sure Gu HATES it ) - and as such, prog is alive and kicking!
You mean Carmen-like?

I do like that.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:54 PM   #519
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

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You mean Carmen-like?

I do like that.
Are you asking me if I like OPERA??? Well yes I do.
I'm an "Allesfresser", not just in tennis, as you should know by now...

But for this particular matter, I mean this band: http://www.psicoalbatros.com

Not even included at ProgArchives.com yet!!!

Check 'em out, Gu!
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:23 AM   #520
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Carmen the band.

That's Flamenco + prog.

By the way, can you post that live version of In The Dead Of Night from UK again? I can't find it anymore.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:41 AM   #521
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

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By the way, can you post that live version of In The Dead Of Night from UK again? I can't find it anymore.
Did a bit of search right now - is it this one:



Skipp the first 1:30 minutes, that's just some lame pictures posted. The rest of it... yeah... Alan Holsworth, Bill Bruford & John Wetton AT THEIR VERY BEST!

EDIT: oopsie, Eddie Jobson was there as well, of course.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:58 AM   #522
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Jobson is a monster, for f***'s sake!
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:13 AM   #523
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post
I guess I'm rather in agreement with you on this matter, and surely don't think that only 'classic prog' (the 1970's era, to say it bluntly) is indeed 'prog'. Nope, IMHO, the genre has evolved continuously, taking up influences from about EVERYWHERE (ever heard of 'Prog Andaluz'? - it's a Spanish/Moorish subgenre, combining classic prog with... flamenco! - I'm sure Gu HATES it ) - and as such, prog is alive and kicking!
Flamenco prog sounds right up my alley i will check it out. Thanks for the tip off!

Quote:
You might find this: 'Progarchives.com's Guide to Progressive Rock' an interesting read.
Awesome I'll read up.

Quote:
Fully agree with you here. Though I definitely consider myself a 'metal-head' as well as a progger, I don't think 99% of DM bands belong to the prog genre, but I do keep an open ear to them, and don't be surprised if one day, a DM band comes up with something that is most definitely PROG! No wonder, ProgArchives.com has a special section on Tech/Extreme Prog Metal, too.
I think whoever wrote that doesn't know that much about metal. Just namedropped the standards and some of the things he said were kind of sketchy.

Quote:
Thanks for the vid, interesting at least! I'll put it on my downloads.
Don't know whether we are allowed to post download links, actually - does someone know about MTF's policy on this? It is after all, eh, illegal...
NP, I spin that album all the time, and their first one (Akeldama) is a bit better IMO. Its got more of an energetic/catchy deathcore vibe but its still technical and creative. Yeah I figured it was probably best not to blatanty post d/l links. You should totally try to find The Armageddon Theories though, some of the stuff on that album...

Quote:
A lot of proggers, even the DT-fans, had a bit of a hard time with ToT because it tends to be rather 'metal' than prog. One of their weakest albums imho, but I know that there are plenty people out there who don't agree with me on that. That's one of the problems with classifying BANDS as a whole within a certain genre... I mean, is Genesis' 'I Can't Dance' (:retard:-crap I think) Prog? I don't think so...
I agree completely, not classifying by band would also put to rest all the stupid arguments about whether or not bands like metallica are metal for example. Why should we limit a band to stick to one style through their whole career?

I thought Train of Thought was a terrible album, its like Portnoy and Petrucci woke up and decided to turn DT into nu metal. :retard:

Quote:
Again, fully agree with you!
I consider a lot of Indie Bands that have clear Prog-influences - Radiohead, Mogwai, Sigur Ros, to name but a few - a lot more 'progressive' than those copying 1970's Genesis stuff... needless to say, these bands as well are included at ProgArchives.com, and rightly so.
Yeah I've been really getting into a lot of indie and post-rock, and id rather listen to that stuff than any tired 70s prog rip off. The world would be a boring place if we were stuck with only 70s style prog.

Quote:
I am most definitely a fan of the wider definition - I'd like to say anything 'adventurous, eclectic, conciously non-commercial, 'difficult' music' is PROG. Gu is on the other far end of the spectrum, and obviously is a purist - and I'm sure he has his good reasonings for that opinion just as I have for mine...
Yeah I think I definitely agree with you. I think becoming a purist in a field like prog is counterproductive, because this is supposed to be a genre WITHOUT stupid limitations and formulas you're supposed to follow in your writing. Copying Genesis and Yes over and over again makes for creative progressivem music how???

Quote:
You haven't made a fool of yourself at all. This is an interesting subject, and I am just happy to see yet another metalhead venturing in the mesmerizing musical journey that is prog... welcome aboard, mate!
Well thats good to hear.

And in case you hadn't heard of them (and for EVERYONE ELSE), check out UNEXPECT, progressive metal from Canada. Absolutely brilliant stuff, and don't worry, this isn't the Dream Theater/Degree Absolute/Zero Hour style prog metal:
www.myspace.com/unexpect

Their album "In a Flesh Aquarium" is a must for any metal or prog metal fan.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:22 AM   #524
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

Unexpect is AWESOME! thanks for bringing it into conversation Rohan



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Old 12-02-2008, 04:31 AM   #525
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Default Re: Stupid Dream's PROG ROCK thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post
Just for the record, how many of the contemporary Prog artists do you have actually listened to?

I just recieved a true new GEM in my inbox this very evening - this fellow's latest asset - and it's bloody miraculous.

Here's an illegal download for you to enjoy : Steven Wilson's Harmony Korine - from his latest upcoming solo-album "Insurgentes". Yep, the download is highly illegal as the CD isn't even out yet. As Mr. S.W.'s record company ordered me to take down some youtube stuff I posted of his Tilburg gig with Procupine Tree - within just one day, I wonder how long it will survive...

If that ain't prog... okay. I'll rest my case.
I knew i would get shit for this lol

Ive listened to a hell of a lot and most of it is either just a crappier version of the 70's stuff made up to date or just not prog rock even though they call it prog rock, its just my taste i guess.. thanks for the download will take a listen and get back to you with my views
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