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Old 07-20-2008, 02:04 AM   #61
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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So you think the advertisers were telling CNN to only run pro-war programmes. Again, do you have any evidence to back up this paranoia?
This wasn´t meant in that way. If a TV station needs a certain quota of people attending, as the advertisements are paid by that quota this TV station will send program that suits the listener.

If it would be just for the quota a lot of critical programs on TV in Germany would be gone very fast, as the majority is not interested in this kind of program.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:06 AM   #62
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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china didn't even fight in vietnam, they just supplied as far as i know. if i apply your logic concerning the u.s.-latinamerican relationship including the american tactics for decades down there, that means technically china hasn't done anything wrong whatsoever.
I didn't say America did nothing wrong whatsoever. But I don't see how it even compares to what China were doing.

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anyways, the thing is that america policed the world continuously during the last century and, as you know, they NEVER refrained from adopting illegal methods in order to get the job done - which obviously includes massive violations of human rights. they've been active all across the globe while china hasn't gone to any country they couldn't have reached by bike. sure, china didn't ask its people if they wanted to be free in the western sense. but has america asked those countries that suffered during american attacks if they actually believed in the values america forced upon them? both countries had certain ideologies and because both have been "in the zone" beyond belief they failed to stick to moral values in the first place.
I don't see why you're limiting this human rights issue to foreign policy. For me this is a tiny part of it. What's more important is what you do with people once they are under your control. What have Americans done to their own people that compares to China? These invasions you speak of are nothing in comparison.

And you still haven't answered my question. Do you have any idea what was going on under Mao Zedong's regime?

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this is going nowhere though. fact is: america has had its fair share of human rights violations. period.
Nothing compared to China.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:07 AM   #63
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

Given China's terrible record of human rights violation, environmental damage and contrasting culture (at least to ourselves, western citizens), I do hope that they never become the most powerful nation in the world.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:08 AM   #64
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Given China's terrible record of human rights violation, environmental damage and contrasting culture (at least to ourselves, western citizens), I do hope that they never become the most powerful nation in the world.
Also their language...
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:11 AM   #65
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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This wasn´t meant in that way. If a TV station needs a certain quota of people attending, as the advertisements are paid by that quota this TV station will send program that suits the listener.

If it would be just for the quota a lot of critical programs on TV in Germany would be gone very fast, as the majority is not interested in this kind of program.
I don't undertand what your point is then.

Are you saying that TV stations try to run programs that viewers want to see? Does this really shock you?
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:11 AM   #66
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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I don't see why you're limiting this human rights issue to foreign policy. For me this is a tiny part of it. What's more important is what you do with people once they are under your control. What have Americans done to their own people that compares to China? These invasions you speak of are nothing in comparison.
i'm not limiting it to to foreign policy. but that's the field where america has violated human rights while china has mainly had domestic policies that did it for them.

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Originally Posted by jimnik
And you still haven't answered my question. Do you have any idea what was going on under Mao Zedong's regime?
i do. did you notice that i was the one who came up with mao in a thread yesterday? i think we were talking about youth bulges or something, ask glennmirny.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:14 AM   #67
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Only if the branches of administration of governments were taken by people who are the best on their fields that there would be a chance things were managed the best way possible.

The way it goes, you put a politician to manage something that he has no clue about only because he's from party A or B. He's not gonna be efficient.
That´s right. It is allways funny when a minister changes his subject. How can someone change his main subject like it was nothing? One day he takes care about health, the next day he takes care about agriculture.

But the "best possible way" needs to be epxplained. A lot of times the best way might not be the right way as only a few would benefit from it. If you take one specialist in economics he will tell you to sack some workers, an specialist will say that only if the majority is satisfied the economy will be good. Of course the one saying "sack" would have better grades as he understood economy, but isn´t the other one right, too?
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:18 AM   #68
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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i'm not limiting it to to foreign policy. but that's the field where america has violated human rights while china has mainly had domestic policies that did it for them.
For me, defending South Vietnam and South Korea is not violating human rights. Maybe supporting regimes in South America and other regions is, but this barely scratches the surface of human rights violations.


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i do. did you notice that i was the one who came up with mao in a thread yesterday? i think we were talking about youth bulges or something, ask glennmirny.
I remember youth bulges but I don't remember the Mao reference.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:19 AM   #69
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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I don't undertand what your point is then.

Are you saying that TV stations try to run programs that viewers want to see? Does this really shock you?
No it doesn´t shock me, but if there is no independent media available, if there don´t exist critical programs as they don´t give enough quota, I think that this can lead to a main stream news program that doesn´t question enough what policians, economists or memebrs of the secret service say.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:21 AM   #70
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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That´s right. It is allways funny when a minister changes his subject. How can someone change his main subject like it was nothing? One day he takes care about health, the next day he takes care about agriculture.

But the "best possible way" needs to be epxplained. A lot of times the best way might not be the right way as only a few would benefit from it. If you take one specialist in economics he will tell you to sack some workers, an specialist will say that only if the majority is satisfied the economy will be good. Of course the one saying "sack" would have better grades as he understood economy, but isn´t the other one right, too?
Well, but this kind of problems already exist, don't you agree? Of course the "best way possible" would depend on the ideological bias of the government involved, as it already happens.

My point is that it's repugnant for me that a politician who knows shit about most things not being deception and demagogical speeches is responsible for some of the most essential matters in a country.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:22 AM   #71
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No it doesn´t shock me, but if there is no independent media available, if there don´t exist critical programs as they don´t give enough quota, I think that this can lead to a main stream news program that doesn´t question enough what policians, economists or memebrs of the secret service say.
If anything it's more entertaining to watch politicians and agencies being challenged. The media loves conspiracy stories and they've broadcast their fair share of them.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:23 AM   #72
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For me, defending South Vietnam and South Korea is not violating human rights. Maybe supporting regimes in South America and other regions is, but this barely scratches the surface of human rights violations.
What about protecting South Africa for years and years of apartheid?
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:23 AM   #73
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My point is that it's repugnant for me that a politician who knows shit about most things not being deception and demagogical speeches is responsible for some of the most essential matters in a country.
I'd presume that you're not a supporter of Barack Obama.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:24 AM   #74
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I'd presume that you're not a supporter of Barack Obama.
No.

I'm not a supporter of McCain either.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:31 AM   #75
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What about protecting South Africa for years and years of apartheid?
Again, like South America, this is indirect involvement in human rights violations. But it's just the same as having Saddam in control of Iraq. It may be an evil regime but at least it keeps the country stable. South Africa had the strongest economy on the continent inspite of the racist policies.

A lot of the time, foreign policy is not about choosing right from wrong but choosing the lesser of two evils. If a socialist or military coup had gained power then the country could have seen similar problems to Uganda under Amin.

But of course I agree it's a black mark on America's human rights record. Still doesn't scratch the surface of China.
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