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Old 07-20-2008, 01:56 AM   #31
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

i know china's record is bad, that's not the point. but america's record isn't the best either. do i really need to name you every single state in latin america they gatecrashed during the cold war, letting brutal dictators like pinochet prosper everywhere?

i'd sure love you to name any invasions china has ever executed.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:06 AM   #32
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
i know china's record is bad, that's not the point. but america's record isn't the best either. do i really need to name you every single state in latin america they gatecrashed during the cold war, letting brutal dictators like pinochet prosper everywhere?

i'd sure love you to name any invasions china has ever executed.
USA never invaded any Latin countries. Tibet was what I would call an invasion.

I don't see anything in South America's history that compares to China. Do you know about Mao Zedong? Pinochet was a saint compared to him. In a century that had the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Franco in power, Mao was the worst.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:15 AM   #33
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

I never studied business, but as far as I know what is happening to the USA and to a lot of states in Europe seems to be a normal thing considering capitalism.

If the economy of a country is rising the life circumstances also rise to a certain extend. People get out of pure poverty and don´t have to fear what to eat the next day. A health care system is developed and tax payers pay their taxes so that all civil service can be maintained.
People are satisfied with their lives and as long as the wages are getttig better they live without fear.

But at a certain point of time, the people don´t benefit that much anymore from higher wages, as the money itself loses its value (inflation). A lot of people tend to spend less money, so that less goods are sold. This has an effect on the producer of the goods. He may have to pay less money to his wokers or he may even have to send some of them home. Those people neeed money from the state and this state will have to lend money from banks, as there is less income through taxes.

Of course I know that unemployment, or the fear of inflation is a big threat to everyone and has a very serious influence on the life of a individual, but I guess that it is something every good economy has to face when developing economies are all of a sudden their counterparts.

I wnet to India last year and I saw real poverty at a lot of places. The health system is not working good and a lot of children don´t have access to education. If countries like India or China wants to survive they have to develop in health care and education, otherwise they might face serious intenal problems (up to a civil war).

The western econmies including the USA may fear the rising strength of those states but on the other hand those states have to spend far more money on education and health than they do today. The rights of workers in these states will get beter and they will be payed better. The advantage of low wages in these countries will not last very long and afterwards they are just normal counterparts in the economy.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
USA never invaded any Latin countries. Tibet was what I would call an invasion.
i didn't say they invaded latin america. they didn't kill anyone down there, they let kill.

when it comes to invasions or actual aggression (in contrast to defensive measures), i'm thinking of vietnam, iraq, panama, korea, indonesia, lebanon, libya, cuba and so on.

tibet has been chinese for ages. it's not like they marched in last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnik
I don't see anything in South America's history that compares to China. Do you know about Mao Zedong? Pinochet was a saint compared to him. In a century that had the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Franco in power, Mao was the worst.
same here, which is why china's record is worse than america's. where's your problem, jimmy?
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:21 AM   #35
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
i didn't say they invaded latin america. they didn't kill anyone down there, they let kill.

when it comes to invasions or actual aggression (in contrast to defensive measures), i'm thinking of vietnam, iraq, panama, korea, indonesia, lebanon, libya, cuba and so on.
Vietnam and Korea were being attacked by the Chinese. USA was aiding the south in both cases, not invading. In fact none of these countries were invaded. Either America withdrew or they allowed self-determination. Also notice how the regimes in Cuba and Libya have worked out. They probably would have been better off if America had successfully invaded. Iraq was the biggest mistake but that was also under harsh regime.

I don't know about Indonesia. What happened there?

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same here, which is why china's record is worse than america's. where's your problem, jimmy?
It's much MUCH worse than America's. The fact that you were even comparing is what scares me.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:24 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

Global Warming = fallacy.

Just to take this weight off my back.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:27 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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It's much MUCH worse than America's. The fact that you were even comparing is what scares me.
I have to agree to that. However bad a democracy is, it is allways better than a dictatorship and that is what China is.

That doesn´t mean that al chinese are evil (not at all) but you can not say what the majority of chinese think about certain military action. In the USA there is a public discussion about this. This is not allowed in China.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:28 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Originally Posted by Boarder35m View Post
I have to agree to that. However bad a democracy is, it is allways better than a dictatorship and that is what China is.

That doesn´t mean that al chinese are evil (not at all) but you can not say what the majority of chinese think about certain military action. In the USA there is a public discussion about this. This is not allowed in China.
like when the US invaded Iraq the last time?
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:30 AM   #39
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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like when the US invaded Iraq the last time?
Of course there was.

Contrary to popular belief, Bush wasn't the only one in favour of the war.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:31 AM   #40
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Of course there was.

Contrary to popular belief, Bush wasn't the only one in favour of the war.
If public discussion = lies thrown at the general public 24-7, then yes.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:33 AM   #41
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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like when the US invaded Iraq the last time?
Hm, a discussion does not allways lead to the way I would favour, but well that is democracy:

I have to agree to the majority even if I think that it is wrong.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:34 AM   #42
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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If public discussion = lies thrown at the general public 24-7, then yes.
I guess all that famous Bush-owned media was to blame.

If anything CNN are more pro-Democrat.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:34 AM   #43
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Vietnam and Korea were being attacked by the Chinese. USA was aiding the south in both cases, not invading...
nobody threatened the u.s., that's what counts. therefore i consider them the aggressors. the u.s. helped and china helped, so they've been equally bad in this case. bear in mind: we're talking solely about the actual aggression. it doesn't matter why these actions took place. the initial point that was raised was human rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnik
I don't know about Indonesia. What happened there?
the same as in south america, so i guess it wouldn't count as an invasion.

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Originally Posted by jimnik
It's much MUCH worse than America's. The fact that you were even comparing is what scares me.
it's not that much. it's just worse.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:37 AM   #44
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

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Hm, a discussion does not allways lead to the way I would favour, but well that is democracy:

I have to agree to the majority even if I think that it is wrong.
That's the problem of democracy mate. The majority is wrong 98% of the time.

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I guess all that famous Bush-owned media was to blame.

If anything CNN are more pro-Democrat.
Were any weapons of mass destruction found?
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:38 AM   #45
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Default Re: Is America a Nation in Decline?

Britain has won more wars than the USA and therefore is a superior nation.

Hope this helps.
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