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Old 07-08-2008, 12:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

Finala game 30 seconds, 23, 22, and 27 seconds when Federer protested. Nadal exceeded his allotted time on that final game. In his defense there was a bit of noise in between points.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by Sebby View Post
Check when he's facing a break point... it can go easily over 30 seconds.
I did and it is true.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by Albatros99 View Post
Finala game 30 seconds, 23, 22, and 27 seconds when Federer protested. Nadal exceeded his allotted time on that final game. In his defense there was a bit of noise in between points.
I remember last year he was up to 40 sec. at some point in some match...
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

This is a very serious problem, indeed... he should behave like the true champions like Agassi, Borg, MacEnroe, Connors... they all were such gentlemen on court!

Comeon, haters, bring something better, all ranked players that I know, except maybe a few, have an annoying habit that could be considered gamemanship or have an effect in play. Youzhny can draw blood on the court and it's not raquet abuse, or Ferrer breaking them in the MC final, or Stepanek the other day. But they are just "a little crazy, haha, how temperamental". Yet even throwing one to the floor is raquet abuse and should be penalized. Agassi threatening lines, Sampras blowing his nose (so his opponent has to serve while caring not to step where the GOAT just dropped green substance minutes earlier), Borg bouncing the ball 50 times (real), MacEnroe... well, what can I say about old Mac...

Nadal is a thousand times more humble and easy-going than all of them, and a much better example as sportman, and you all know it, haters. Stop paying that much attention to his ass picking, you pervs.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:22 PM   #35
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by ToniTennis View Post
Firstly, is Nadal the only one that apparently does so? It's hard to believe that not other players do the same.
No, he's surely not the only one. But he is one of the most notorious time-wasters, and one does not to have to be a 'hater' to notice this. The rules as they are (posted by PMK above) should be enforced to ALL PLAYERS, but apart from the very regularly time violation code, nothing happens.

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Secondly, his massive ego? dude you Rafa haters should focus on something else.
Nothing to do with 'hating' - it's simple, the rules are there and should be enforced - to ALL PLAYERS, like I said.

Quote:
And don't get me wrong; if he regularly exceeds the time he should be penalized accordingly and that might be a good motivation to change that attitude, as he has done with the improvements of his game but, as I see it, that's just a part of him being so concentrated when playing. Anyway, do other players complain about it and make such a big deal or is it just you guys?
Other players have complained about it numerous times.

In his defence, he HAS indeed speeded things up. Besides this I'd like to point out that I don't believe for a second that he does this because of alleged gamesmanship or anything - it is like you say, a part of his concentration routine. Still, it's surpassing the rules, and it should not be allowed, whatever the reason he does it.

The time you are allowed to take is just one aspect of the game.
To make a (extreme and silly, I know) comparison: in all mindsports (which I happen to play), there's a time-limit. Taking too much time in bridge gets you a points violation, and in the case of chess, it's 'lost-by-default'. Now you can argue, 'hey, I'm a slow player, I need more time...', but that's YOUR problem and no-one else's...
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by Papagena View Post
No, he's surely not the only one. But he is one of the most notorious time-wasters, and one does not to have to be a 'hater' to notice this.
He receives the most attention for it just because he's the most notorious one yes, but if it bothered people that much, they would be whining about many players. They don't.

That isn't the issue here, Karin. Can't you see? The issue right now is that a group of sore losers need to express their frustration that Nadal is now the Wimbledon champ and they're using everything they can find as a stick to beat him with. No offence, but your "it has nothing to do with hating" is naive in my opinion.

And yes, I know that he's a slow player and the rules are the rules.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. Apart from the ball bouncing (which Rafa sometimes does as well) routine, it doesn't bother me when Novak takes a lot of time either. Boris Becker used to take a lot of time as well, didn't bother me back then either.

Novak doing his ball bouncing thing (which isn't exactly a new habit) wasn't an issue on MTF until he started winning big events.
Nadal using a lot of time in between points (which isn't a new habit either) wasn't an issue on MTF until he started winning big events.

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Old 07-08-2008, 12:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

I hope that he takes at least 50 seconds between points all throughout the hardcourt season

Threads like this one give me a little glow inside

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Old 07-08-2008, 12:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
That isn't the issue here, Karin. Can't you see? The issue right now is that a group of sore losers need to express their frustration that Nadal is now the Wimbledon champ and they're using everything they can find as a stick to beat him with.
As if that time wasting issue popped up yesterday out of nowhere... Rafa was a cheat long before winning Wimbledon and many tennis fans are annoyed by it. Simple as that
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
I hope that he takes at least 50 seconds between points all throughout the hardcourt season

Threads like this one give me a little glow inside

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Old 07-08-2008, 12:44 PM   #40
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papagena View Post

Nothing to do with 'hating' - it's simple, the rules are there and should be enforced - to ALL PLAYERS, like I said.
Ofcourse. This is like: 'You are attacking my player, you are hater' - the most inteligent sentence here.

Both Rafa and Novak should be punished several times per match. One warning means nothing. They are 2. and 3. in the world, they must be some kind of role models for all. Deliberately or not - they are quilty. Intentionaly or not - who cares? The worst thing is - both usually get warnings one time and notning! It's a bull. Rafa picking, spinningg around feet finger more than 20-25 sec = lost point, Novak bounces, spinning around feet finger more than 20-25 sec = lost point. Umpires has little fear of them, of their reactions, etc.. and they have to be example for all players.

This rule is so simple, umpires have to just imply this simple rule on every player. Who is he (Rafa, Novak, Manon, Papagena, Scarecrows...) - this is probably the most unimportant issue here.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:47 PM   #41
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
He receives the most attention for it just because he's the most notorious one yes, but if it bothered people that much, they would be whining about many players. They don't.

That isn't the issue here, Karin. Can't you see? The issue right now is that a group of sore losers need to express their frustration that Nadal is now the Wimbledon champ and they're using everything they can find as a stick to beat him with. No offence, but your "it has nothing do with hating" is naive in my opinion.

And yes, I know that he's a slow player and the rules are the rules.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. Apart from the ball bouncing (which Rafa sometimes does as well) routine, it doesn't bother me when Novak takes a lot of time either. Boris Becker used to take a lot of time as well, didn't bother me back then either.

Novak doing his ball bouncing thing (which isn't exactly a new habit) wasn't an issue on MTF until he started winning big events.
Nadal using a lot of time in between points (which isn't a new habit either) wasn't an issue on MTF until he started winning big events.
You hit the nail on the head. Yet Nadal should change that habit.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
He receives the most attention for it just because he's the most notorious one yes, but if it bothered people that much, they would be whining about many players. They don't.
And that's a sad thing. I already emphasized it: rules should apply to ALL players.

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That isn't the issue here, Karin. Can't you see? The issue right now is that a group of sore losers need to express their frustration that Nadal is now the Wimbledon champ and they're using everything they can find as a stick to beat him with. No offence, but your "it has nothing do with hating" is naive in my opinion.
Well, I can surely see it. I merely discussed the subject from an overall point of view on the subject itself, whatever the hidden agenda of some sore people that indeed look for any excuse to dismiss Rafa's achievement, as I am not into that. It should be able to discuss a subject without first checking people's hidden agenda's imho.

Quote:
And yes, I know that he's a slow player and the rules are the rules.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. Apart from the ball bouncing (which Rafa sometimes does as well) routine, it doesn't bother me when Novak takes a lot of time either. Boris Becker used to take a lot of time as well, didn't bother me back then either.
Whether or not it bothers individual fans is not the issue... that is personal, as you say. Point is, there's an official RULE about this, and whether or not people find it bothering is not a factor. This rule should either be followed/enforced, or when it is brought up for discussion, abandonned if the majority feels like it, but until then, it's there and should be followed.

Quote:
Novak doing his ball bouncing thing (which isn't exactly a new habit) wasn't an issue on MTF until he started winning big events.
Nadal using a lot of time in between points (which isn't a new habit either) wasn't an issue on MTF until he started winning big events.
That's sad, and indeed the Hater Factor I guess. Stil, as I have no talent for hating whatsoever, I think it should be able to discuss the subject whatever the intention of some posters is.

And for the record, yes, I find Djoko's ball-bouncing irritating, and in regard to Raf, I find all of his idiosyncracies rather cute more than anything else - except this one, as it is against the rule of the game.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatros99 View Post
Yet Nadal should change that habit.
Sure and he's working on it but he's never going to be a quick player between points anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Papagena
It should be able to discuss a subject without first checking people's hidden agenda's imho.
On MTF? In General Messages? Right after such a slam event? This place isn't exactly the bastion of objectivity at the best of times but after a slam?
I agree that a proper discussion about this should be possible but I take just about everything I read after a big tournament with a huge pinch of salt and of course, there are people in here with a hidden agenda (granted, not all of them...like I said, you can hardly deny that he doesn't take a lot of time).

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Old 07-08-2008, 01:10 PM   #44
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

Does anyone remember when Nadal started his career as a pro that he would spend 20 seconds just juggling the balls to pick the right one?
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:19 PM   #45
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Default Re: Nadal's timewasting - who's to blame?

Below is the rule from the ATP Rule Book:

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/T...P_Rulebook.pdf

o) Continuous Play / Delay of Game
Following the expiration of the warm-up period, play shall be continuous and a player shall not unreasonably delay a match for any cause. A maximum of twentyfive (25) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play until the time the ball is struck for the next point. If such serve is a fault, then the second serve must be struck by the Server without delay. The exception is at a ninety (90) second changeover or a one hundred twenty (120) set break. The procedures for enforcing this rule are as follows:
i) 25 Seconds Between Points.
1. Start stopwatch when the player is ordered to play or when the ball goes out of play;
2. Assess Time Violation or Code Violation if the ball is not struck for the next point within the twenty-five (25) seconds allowed. There is no time warning prior to the expiration of the twenty-five (25) seconds.
ii) Changeover (Ninety (90) Seconds) and Set Break (One Hundred and Twenty (120) Seconds).
1. Start stopwatch the moment the ball goes out of play;
2. Announce “Time” after sixty (60) / ninety (90) seconds have elapsed;
3. Announce “15 Seconds” if one or both of the players are still at their chair

That's the rule, but I just have a different perspective on Nadal and the time he takes. I truly believe that the main one that would benefit from him speeding up his play is Nadal himself. IMO, he is the fittest guy in tennis right now, so why would he want to intentionally give his opponent time to regroup physically and mentally before he hits the next serve. If he would pick up his pace of play, I honestly believe he could wear opponents down even quicker than he does now. I know if I was playing a guy anywhere near his physical ability, I would never complain that he was taking to much time. I frankly, would enjoy the time to collect my thoughts and catch my breath. Nothing was tougher for me to play than a guy that was extremely physical and played quickly. It is much harder to deal with than being given that extra amount of time to collect oneself. That's why I don't think his opponents complain. Would you want him to speed up, or get some extra time between his grueling style.
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