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Old 07-05-2004, 10:00 AM   #1
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Red face is Duckboy the third William sister?

he seems to think that the solution to every challenge on court is always to generate more power and to hit even harder.

i am surprised that Brad the trickster has not taught him that this is not always the way to go.

makes me wonder is Brad an effective coach or simply an excellent scout?
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Hey, Brad was four in the world once. It wasn't due to sheer talent alone.

He must know something.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalCarnage
Hey, Brad was four in the world once. It wasn't due to sheer talent alone.

He must know something.
Too bad he hardly had any good results in the Slams and played virtually the overwhelming majority of his events in North America.

He has only taken on players when they were established, not when they are beginning their careers for example like Peter Lundgren did with Marcelo Rios and Roger Federer.

Too bad Roddick couldn't win ugly like his mentor used to on Sunday.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

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Originally Posted by Marc Rosset is Tall
Too bad he hardly had any good results in the Slams and played virtually the overwhelming majority of his events in North America.

He has only taken on players when they were established, not when they are beginning their careers for example like Peter Lundgren did with Marcelo Rios and Roger Federer.

Too bad Roddick couldn't win ugly like his mentor used to on Sunday.
Thanks for writing that. Clearly, I was touting Brad as the best player ever. Way to set me straight.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalCarnage
Thanks for writing that. Clearly, I was touting Brad as the best player ever. Way to set me straight.
That's fine, there is no crime in being a Gilbert fan.
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Old 07-05-2004, 11:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Ok. I was being sarcastic and I can't tell if you were returning the favour there or not.

But you misunderstood what I was originally saying. I'm NOT a Gilbert fan. I said that he reached #4 in the world to illustrate a point. He clearly did it without vast resources of natural talent, now didn't he? So he must have some knowledge to impart about the game.
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Old 07-06-2004, 10:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalCarnage
Hey, Brad was four in the world once. It wasn't due to sheer talent alone.

He must know something.
yes he must. what he knows how to do is scout players and figure out their particular weaknesses and help his guy exploit that. he calls it "winning ugly" and it is. for example, it's no accident that Duckboy was able to beat Agassi shortly after he picked up with Brad. nobody knew Agassi's game as well as Brad -- and his weaknesses too. that's probably why Andre was so pissed that day -- he probably felt sold out. but he should have known that Brad's particular gift is the ability to win ugly.

but this is not the same as being a good coach. it defines a terrific scout who can pick up on the weaknesses in an opponent. what happens when the opponent has no visible weakness? when, in addition to that, as Marat said, he also has a backhand? in this case he opponent just went out and wildly threw everything at him including the kitchen sink, just hoping desperately for the best.
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You know, I'd be lying if I said I'm looking forward to practicing the next two days as opposed to playing here. That part is gonna suck...(2010 Aegon Championships)
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Old 07-06-2004, 10:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

You guys forget that as good a coach as Gilbert is, a lot also depends on the player going out and executing (to steal a phrase from Andre).

Also, Brad is not the one who invented scouting- there are a lot of other coaches who do the same and try to manufacture a game plan so that their protegees can beat their opponents while capitalizing on their weaknesses. Hate the game, don't hate the player.
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Old 07-06-2004, 10:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Actually I read that Brad was complaining that Andy did'nt get to play in Centre Court after his opening round match. He was scheduled to play his semis in Centre court but rain delay moved it to Court no.1

Gilbert said - "Andy is not complaining, but I'm annoyed."
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Old 07-06-2004, 11:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennischick
yes he must. what he knows how to do is scout players and figure out their particular weaknesses and help his guy exploit that. he calls it "winning ugly" and it is. for example, it's no accident that Duckboy was able to beat Agassi shortly after he picked up with Brad. nobody knew Agassi's game as well as Brad -- and his weaknesses too. that's probably why Andre was so pissed that day -- he probably felt sold out. but he should have known that Brad's particular gift is the ability to win ugly.

but this is not the same as being a good coach. it defines a terrific scout who can pick up on the weaknesses in an opponent. what happens when the opponent has no visible weakness? when, in addition to that, as Marat said, he also has a backhand? in this case he opponent just went out and wildly threw everything at him including the kitchen sink, just hoping desperately for the best.
I don't think you give him enough credit. But I could be wrong. But I'm not the one pretending to know anything about the particulars of Gilbert's coaching repertoire. You don't know enough to say he's just a "scout".
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

i know enuf to say that he is an excellent scout. that's what his book is all about -- scouting your opponent to find his flaws and exploiting them.

a good coach helps his guy repair weaknesses in his own game -- like not relying only on his monster serve, like having a plan for what to do when the serve is returned (and not expecting to score aces all the time), like developing a reliable backhand, like volleying over the net (and not into it). stuff like that.
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
I know the "winning ugly" book you mean, very interesting read and breakdowns on players like Connors, Becker, Lendl and how he relied on grinding them down and mental stratagies like taking more time bewtween serves to break opponents momentum.
I wouldn't take the Lendl section very seriously because Gilbert had the wonderful record of 16-0 against Ivan Lendl, so whatever strategy he had against him it didn't work.

Quote:
Roddick said he owed his 5 set comeback v Nalbandian and winning the tournie to Brads influence and giving him mental strengths which I dont doubt for a minute
Or generous scheduling and crowd calls in a vital tiebreaker, which was a momentum shift, but Roddick took advantage of the situation, unlike on last Sunday.
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Gilbert was Agassi's coach and you can't really criticize Gilbert too much.

At least, David wasn't too injured and exhausted at Roland Garros. It'd be sad if he had been bagelled at U.S. Open. Look on the bright side. He did beat Agassi and Federer. Don't worry, he'll win a title soon.
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalitha
Actually I read that Brad was complaining that Andy did'nt get to play in Centre Court after his opening round match. He was scheduled to play his semis in Centre court but rain delay moved it to Court no.1

Gilbert said - "Andy is not complaining, but I'm annoyed."
Really strange that he wasn't complaining at last year's USO, when Federer was waiting to play his matches for the whole day during rain and then when it finally stops, they tell him to get back to the hotel because it is now night session so Roddick has to play

I know it is "normal" to arange a good schedule for the champion/home players but that was definitely worse that putting Roddick on court no 1

And imagine what Brad would have said if they maintained Roddick's semi after Roger's one, on the same court... "Andy is tired, he got one less day to rest, bla bla..."
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: is Duckboy the third William sister?

From the NYT about Gilbert:

"However canny Federer was, even Phil Jackson might admit that you can't teach talent. Though he played far more baseline tennis here this year than last and got away with it until yesterday, Federer had the serve-and-volley skills to resort to. Roddick was married to his prematch plan to (and we're paraphrasing Roddick here) hit the stuffing out of the ball. For such a strategy he needed Coach Gilbert?

Andre Agassi recast himself with Gilbert but seldom solved Pete Sampras in a big-money match. Roddick, now 1-6 for his career against Federer, admitted that Federer "has an aura about him." To beat him - on grass, at least - Roddick needs work on his volleys, or a better game plan.

What might that be? Coach Gilbert, the author of a soon-to-be-released second book, the subject of a recent magazine profile, a man who by reputation would talk to a racket if it had ears, strode silently past hopeful reporters into a waiting car."
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