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Old 06-18-2008, 09:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz View Post
i have seen scientific evidence that they can decrease vibrations in the grip of the racket by upto 75%
i'd like to see that, cos it not only contradicts all the reseach i have seen but also sounds like complete bollocks
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

ok string a racket with poly at a high tension and then hit with it with no vibration dampener, then put a small logo one i.e. babolat 'o' wilson 'w' etc and then use a long worm and you will def see a difference.

the research i saw was from a scientific company about 5 years ago but cant remember it

they were also talking about string tensions and that was interesteing cos they were saying a high tension gives you more control and the lower the tension doesnt give you more powerful jus a higher projection for the ball off the racket if that makes sense
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz View Post
ok string a racket with poly at a high tension and then hit with it with no vibration dampener, then put a small logo one i.e. babolat 'o' wilson 'w' etc and then use a long worm and you will def see a difference.
i'm not saying there is no difference, i'm saying that there is no significant difference.

of course you will feel some difference with poly, its a stiff string that transmits more vibrations. with multifilament strings there will be very little difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz View Post
they were also talking about string tensions and that was interesteing cos they were saying a high tension gives you more control and the lower the tension doesnt give you more powerful jus a higher projection for the ball off the racket if that makes sense
that is correct
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz View Post
i have seen scientific evidence that they can decrease vibrations in the grip of the racket by upto 75%
Prove it.

I can prove with very simple physics knowledge that this is bullshit.
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

ok it is not my research

but take it to an extreme if you use poly at a high tension it creates more vibrations than a soft multifilament and if you use a multi there is a good cchance you will not need a vibration dampener

all i said was try it

it is no different to the systems the racket manufacturers work and they would not do it unless they could prove it works it would be illegal and with brnads like babolat and wilson whi quote figures on tehir products i would listen

jazar you work in wigmore so when some asks you i get a lot of vibrations - your response is........

glenn please enighten me in your physics
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Simple:

A medium tennis ball weighs 56 grams (from ITF's website). A racket weighs like 330 grams. I doubt a anti-vibe weighs more than 5 grams.

So here it goes.

Let's take a 200 kph serve, for instance. It's an extreme of it all, but it should work. It will reach the opponent's racket at about 100 kph speed, maybe less.

The ball will reach the racket with a kinetic energy of 21.61J.

Considering an elastic collision and everything. (I'll spare you my calculations here, but it involves conservation of kinetic energy and momentum).

You'll end up with two speeds. The speed of the ball and the speed the racket would have if you weren't holding it. Now I used that speed to calculate the energy you'd have to put into it to keep the racket still. Mind you this is very simple but it will show you clearly.

Without the anti-vibe, E = 10.72 Joules
With the anti-vibe, E = 10.61 Joules

That means that the anti-vibe only absorbed 0.11 Joules of energy. 1.026% of the initial energy.

If you want my calculations I can show you.

Two things:
1- I'm using a very simple model, I know.
2- The vibrations are caused by the impact. They're a manifestation of the dissipation of energy throughout the racket's body. That's something I presume you understand mate. Simple physics.

I hope this is very clear.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

but you have assumed you are not holdong it - but you are holding i am sure that would make a difference

and i am not sure what you have measured what you need to measure is the amount of vibrations with and without a vibration dampener
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz View Post
jazar you work in wigmore so when some asks you i get a lot of vibrations - your response is........
JOURNAL OF SPORTS SCIENCES
Volume 22, Issue 11-12, Pages 1041-1052, Published: 2004

By F.X. Li, D. Fewtrell and M Jenkins

In this study, we examined the effect of string vibration damping devices on reducing racket frame vibration transfer to the forearm. Twenty participants volunteered to hold a tennis racket stationary in a forehand and backhand stroking position while tennis balls were fired at 20 m (.) s(-1) towards two impact locations, the node of vibration and the dead spot. A three-way analysis of variance with repeated measures on damping condition, impact location and stroke condition was performed on the data. The resonant frequency of the hand-held racket was found to be similar to 120 Hz. No significant differences in amplitude of vibration at the resonant frequency were found for the wrist or the elbow when damped and non-damped impacts were compared. Impacts at the dead spot produced greater amplitudes of vibration (P < 0.01) but no interaction between impact location and string dampers was evident. The string dampers had no effect on the grip force used or the muscle electrical activity in the forearm after impact. In conclusion, we found that string dampers do not reduce the amount of racket frame vibration received at the forearm. We suggest that string dampers remain a popular accessory among tennis players because of their acoustic effects and psychological support rather than any mechanical advantage.

JOURNAL OF SPORTS SCIENCES
Volume 17, Issue 5, Pages 379-385, Published: MAY 1999

By C.L. Stroede, L. Noble and H.S. Walker

In this study, we evaluated the effect of the use of tennis racket string vibration dampers on racket handle vibrations, and perceptions of hand and arm discomfort experienced by tennis players owing to stationary racket impacts. Twenty tennis players (10 males, 10 females) aged 18-29 years volunteered for the study. Two different racket models were impacted at the geometric centre of the racket face and 100 mm distal to the centre both with and without string vibration dampers in place. The participants could neither see nor hear the impacts, and they indicated their discomfort immediately after each impact using a visual analogue scale. An analysis of variance (2 x 2 x 2 factorial) was performed on the scaled discomfort ratings with the factors damping condition, racket type and impact location. No significant differences in discomfort ratings between damped and undamped impacts or between the two racket types were found. Also, central impacts were found to be more comfortable than impacts 100 mm distal to the centre (P < 0.05). There were no significant interaction effects. Vibration traces from an accelerometer mounted on the racket handle revealed that string vibration dampers quickly absorbed high-frequency string vibration without attenuating the lower-frequency frame vibration. In conclusion, we found no evidence to support the contention that string vibration dampers reduce hand and arm impact discomfort.

these two studies prove what glenn and i have been saying throughout this thread. anyone who wishes to disagree with this scientific evidence is more than welcome to.

so gaz, what i tell customers is that vibration dampeners are not effective. if they experience excessive vibrations i recommend they change the string or racket they use.
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

I assumed the amount of energy you'd have to input to hold it. Can you read mate? The "not holding" part is just for the physical model matter.

I guess Newton himself could post here and you still wouldn't admit it.
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

I use them, not because I think they're overly helpful but I find without them, the strings make an annoying pinging sound when I hit the ball. It's reduced with a dampener.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz View Post
ok string a racket with poly at a high tension and then hit with it with no vibration dampener, then put a small logo one i.e. babolat 'o' wilson 'w' etc and then use a long worm and you will def see a difference.

the research i saw was from a scientific company about 5 years ago but cant remember it

they were also talking about string tensions and that was interesteing cos they were saying a high tension gives you more control and the lower the tension doesnt give you more powerful jus a higher projection for the ball off the racket if that makes sense
I now when i use a racket that as a tension of 55 the ball leaves the racket much faster then when i use a racket with 62 tension,i must hit the ball harder with my racket at 62 tension then with one of 55.

P.S do pro's all play with anti-vibrator?
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

Only joke pros use anti-vibes.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:47 AM   #28
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

most

nadal does, agassi always did (won all 4 grand slams - joke pro?) (rubber band smae thing) sampras did (joke pro?7 wimbledons?)
djokovic and roddick both do 2
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

i have one the racquet goes kapoinfzgfhadhgdah if i dont have one so its mainly for noise to me
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Do you use anti-vibe?

God no!

I used to when I was a junior, thought they were an absolute necessity but now I just think they take away all the feel on the shot.
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