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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Pete?

No. I think Federer's decline is a fact and he's not winning any major in the future. 39 17.57%
I kinda agree... He's in a great moment, but the other 2 guys are too good. No more slams for Feddy 45 20.27%
I totally agree. Fed's still playing great tennis and he'll probably win another major 105 47.30%
Hello. I'm Rod Laver and my records are intact. Suck it losers. 33 14.86%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:40 PM   #1126
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

[quote=Greatness;12331967]Fed is always declining even though in his prime he lost to mugs.
His achievements are severely tarnished by his constant failures against Rafa in the slams, which clearly proves that one man alone can easily dominate a weak field since Rafa dominated Federer who was collecting slams easily against mugs in the previous years.


Same garbage again. Nadull only BEAT fed on surfaces favorable to him throughout his career. Predominantly. Anyone can do that. When nadull took over the rivalry fed was Post 27. Losing to everyone just not ONLY nadull a clear sign of decline."did fed mugs suddenly get stronger over one year"
Nadull Is washed up off clay for over 2 years.
Nadull lost to numerous mugs not fed.
Nadull lost to Blake davydenko ferrer n rosol in Prime.
Tell me again who fed lost too?
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THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:42 PM   #1127
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

@Greatness, Prime example of bitter "fan"
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:45 PM   #1128
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post

Same garbage again. Nadull only BEAT fed on surfaces favorable to him throughout his career. Predominantly. Anyone can do that. When nadull took over the rivalry fed was Post 27. Losing to everyone just not ONLY nadull a clear sign of decline."did fed mugs suddenly get stronger over one year"
Nadull Is washed up off clay for over 2 years.
Nadull lost to numerous mugs not fed.
Nadull lost to Blake davydenko ferrer n rosol in Prime.
Tell me again who fed lost too?
Nadal wasn't washed up when he beat Federer at Wimbledon and at the Australian Open.
Rafa has managed to beat Federer on the slam on his favorite surface but Federer has never managed to beat Rafa in his clay palace at Roland Garros. That speaks volumes about who is more capable of rising to the challenge.

Losing to mugs is nothing new for Federer, and nothing new in tennis. The issue is not how many mugs Rafa lost to but how many times he spanked Federer and made him cry like a spoiled entitled brat.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:02 PM   #1129
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
Reading comprehension isn't your forte. The point is not whether or not Novak/Rafa/Murray are better than Federer because that's not what I argued: the merit of winning slams against mugs is what I have been arguing. It is abundantly obvious that the current Rafa/Murray/Novak are far better than the opposition Federer faced in 2003-2006 which is why I said collecting so many slams so quickly doesn't make Federer as impressive as some think. It is still a difficult task to maintain a high level but had he been absent from that time and prime Novak/Rafa/Murray were there, either one of them would have collected several slams.

Also, if you think the previous field of Bag/Rod/Gonzo are no worse than the current players Novak/Murray/Rafa are beating then obviously what I have been saying is true because Novak/Murray/Rafa have been beating the Tsonga/Berdych/Soderling on the way to making slam fnals or winning slams.

Whether or not Nole/Rafa are better than Federer can be argued eventually because they are both over 5 years younger than Federer and have a long way to go in their careers; what can't be argued is the fact that they both beat Federer several times on their way to winning slams.
So if people want to argue that winning a slam in a time when Novak/Rafa/Federer/Murray are playing at a high level is easier than when Roddick/Gonzo/Bag/Hewitt were playing at their best then all I can do is laugh at the sheer stupidity of that notion.
The rather glaring point you seem to be missing is that Federer has also been winning slams after 2007, the "prime" years of Novak/Rafa/Murray (leaving aside the question of when Rafa's prime really began - there seems no obvious reason for dating it later than 2005, since he was higher ranked then than he is now). In fact, in that period he has won precisely the same number of slams as Djokovic, and rather more than Murray. Only Nadal is ahead. In winning those slams he has beaten Murray 3 times and Djokovic twice. He also beat Djokovic at the 2007 U.S. Open (Djoker ended the year at No. 3 & won the next slam) and Nadal at 2006 & 2007 Wimbledon (Nadal ended both years as No. 2, by some distance). And since 2008 he has been noticeably worse against the rest of the field outside the 3 you're obsessing about.

Fed stopped Nadal winning ONE slam in 2003-6. No evidence there Nadal would have been startlingly more successful than he already was. Besides Federer, "prime" Djoker has lost to Melzer, Kohlschreiber, Roddick, Tsonga, in slams, none of whom is noticeably better than the people Federer was beating in 2003-6 - a younger better Roddick, Safin, Ferrero, Agassi, Davydenko, Gonzo, Hewitt, Nalbandian, et al. Murray has lost to Cilic, Wawrinka, old Roddick, & freaking Verdasco, for God's sake. Do you seriously believe Djoker or Muzz would have had the same success against the players Fed was beating as Federer did? Can't you see there is no evidence for that at all, or is this just a borderline deranged trolling operation?
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #1130
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
Whether or not Nole/Rafa are better than Federer can be argued eventually because they are both over 5 years younger than Federer and have a long way to go in their careers; what can't be argued is the fact that they both beat Federer several times on their way to winning slams.
So if people want to argue that winning a slam in a time when Novak/Rafa/Federer/Murray are playing at a high level is easier than when Roddick/Gonzo/Bag/Hewitt were playing at their best then all I can do is laugh at the sheer stupidity of that notion.
Long way to go is a stretch. Odds of Nadal retiring/dropping in the rankings before Federer is not high. Odds of Nole retiring/dropping in the rankings before Federer is higher, but not outlandish. But I agree the debate have to be taken eventually, not now. At the moment there is no debate. No further decline to speak of either, unless someone is prepared to admit this era is so weak that being a marginal #1 is unimpressive. And quite soon it need not be marginal anymore. Djokovic is defending 2600 points and Federer 900 until the end of USO. If Fed wins Cincy & USO he will be at least 3000 points ahead. At which point you would have to come up with a novel excuse.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #1131
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
Nadal wasn't washed up when he beat Federer at Wimbledon and at the Australian Open.
Rafa has managed to beat Federer on the slam on his favorite surface but Federer has never managed to beat Rafa in his clay palace at Roland Garros. That speaks volumes about who is more capable of rising to the challenge.

Losing to mugs is nothing new for Federer, and nothing new in tennis. The issue is not how many mugs Rafa lost to but how many times he spanked Federer and made him cry like a spoiled entitled brat.
Nadull career PRIME is 21-25 years. Look at it logically
He entered his PRIME in 2007. . Previously he won I slam a year and a final in 05/08.
He entered his absolute Prime from 08-10 3 years of absolute Prime won multiple slams and on different surfaces.
Since then he has reverted back to winning 1 slam a year and the odd final off clay.
So his career is winding down .
He lost to mugs before and after , during his Prime 100 rosol.
Fed never lost a slam since 2003 to present out of the top 6/7 ranked player or former GS champion .
So nadull edge fed on grass in 2008 . Kudos to him.
So fed didn't best nadull at RG , true . However a member of his generation with the firepower to do so did it Soderling. To expose Nadulls weakness even on clay .
Novak nor a member of his current generation was able to that.
Just list the mugs for everyone to see who fed lost to in his Prime and I will do the same for nadull.
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THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #1132
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

And we thought Start da Game was fanatical. This guy Greatness makes SdG, SetSampras and mediter look like sane, rational fans - and that takes some doing!

PS: wasn't this thread supposed to be about Fed's "decline"? So why is Greatness being allowed to hijack the thread into a "weak era" debate thread for the past several days now?
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:13 PM   #1133
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Feds generation past the ultimate test in tennis defeat Nadull at RG in his Prime.
Novak n Murray n Del-po n cilic etc didn't .
" how many times nadull beat fed"
Do u understand tennis . Nadull is Clay GOAT , fed barely top 10. If at all.
It is nothing SPECIAL to beat fed on clay. You are going by the "name federer" not his game or level of play on that surface.
Do u think beating Sampras on clay , Lendl on grass , Borg on HC was such a Great achievement.
It should be based on the level of play. The AO conditions are similiar to RG as many RG champions are AO champions or do well in conditions that favor "attrition" . So nadull ownership is expected in lower bouncing slow surfaces.
So it takes nothing away but adds nothing because he could have a better resume if he had.
So credit for nadull for doing what was necessary.
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THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.

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Old 08-17-2012, 04:21 PM   #1134
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
The rather glaring point you seem to be missing is that Federer has also been winning slams after 2007, the "prime" years of Novak/Rafa/Murray (leaving aside the question of when Rafa's prime really began - there seems no obvious reason for dating it later than 2005, since he was higher ranked then than he is now). In fact, in that period he has won precisely the same number of slams as Djokovic, and rather more than Murray. Only Nadal is ahead. In winning those slams he has beaten Murray 3 times and Djokovic twice. He also beat Djokovic at the 2007 U.S. Open (Djoker ended the year at No. 3 & won the next slam) and Nadal at 2006 & 2007 Wimbledon (Nadal ended both years as No. 2, by some distance). And since 2008 he has been noticeably worse against the rest of the field outside the 3 you're obsessing about.

Fed stopped Nadal winning ONE slam in 2003-6. No evidence there Nadal would have been startlingly more successful than he already was. Besides Federer, "prime" Djoker has lost to Melzer, Kohlschreiber, Roddick, Tsonga, in slams, none of whom is noticeably better than the people Federer was beating in 2003-6 - a younger better Roddick, Safin, Ferrero, Agassi, Davydenko, Gonzo, Hewitt, Nalbandian, et al. Murray has lost to Cilic, Wawrinka, old Roddick, & freaking Verdasco, for God's sake. Do you seriously believe Djoker or Muzz would have had the same success against the players Fed was beating as Federer did? Can't you see there is no evidence for that at all, or is this just a borderline deranged trolling operation?
The noticeable fact is that Federer didn't collect 10 slams as quickly as he did when facing his weak field of the past.
You have not said anything to support that the past mugs would fare any better in the slams against prime Novak/Nadal/Murray.

I also see the excuse of Federer declining as soon as he started losing more frequently in the slams still being used.
Looks like a bunch of deluded fans refusing to admit that the field finally got strong enough to prevent one man from winning so much compared to the usual mugs that provided little to no resistance.

Federer lost to Roddick and Haas this year. By your faulty logic, they are older and yet are managing to beat Federer now. Does that mean prime Roddick would have destroyed the current Federer in most of their matches? Of course not. Any mug can have his day.
The current field is stronger and that's a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Long way to go is a stretch. Odds of Nadal retiring/dropping in the rankings before Federer is not high. Odds of Nole retiring/dropping in the rankings before Federer is higher, but not outlandish. But I agree the debate have to be taken eventually, not now. At the moment there is no debate. No further decline to speak of either, unless someone is prepared to admit this era is so weak that being a marginal #1 is unimpressive. And quite soon it need not be marginal anymore. Djokovic is defending 2600 points and Federer 900 until the end of USO. If Fed wins Cincy & USO he will be at least 3000 points ahead. At which point you would have to come up with a novel excuse.
Being number #1 by playing more 500 ATP or 250 is nothing impressive. Nadal could play more clay tournaments and have a much bigger tally of points to boost his rankings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
Nadull career PRIME is 21-25 years. Look at it logically
He entered his PRIME in 2007. . Previously he won I slam a year and a final in 05/08.
He entered his absolute Prime from 08-10 3 years of absolute Prime won multiple slams and on different surfaces.
Since then he has reverted back to winning 1 slam a year and the odd final off clay.
So his career is winding down .
He lost to mugs before and after , during his Prime 100 rosol.
Fed never lost a slam since 2003 to present out of the top 6/7 ranked player or former GS champion .
So nadull edge fed on grass in 2008 . Kudos to him.
So fed didn't best nadull at RG , true . However a member of his generation with the firepower to do so did it Soderling. To expose Nadulls weakness even on clay .
Novak nor a member of his current generation was able to that.
Just list the mugs for everyone to see who fed lost to in his Prime and I will do the same for nadull.
Looking at it logically, Nadal made 2 hardcourt slam finals last year and 2 masters finals on hardcourts. Meaning if not for Novak, Rafa would probably have 2 USO and 2 AO titles right now along with Miami/IW titles. You can't belittle the player that has owned Fed in slams for 5 years straight because it makes Fed look even more pathetic.

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Old 08-17-2012, 04:34 PM   #1135
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Why do people keep responding to this clueless guy is beyond me. He's obviously a troll or not very smart. Either way, he's not worth your time.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:42 PM   #1136
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Why do people keep responding to this clueless guy is beyond me. He's obviously a troll or not very smart. Either way, he's not worth your time.
I tend to think he is a Federer fan trying to make Fed look good by failing miserably. I have tried to actertain this, but so far he has not been willing to admit to it. So either he's good, or he's really bad.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #1137
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
The noticeable fact is that Federer didn't collect 10 slams as quickly as he did when facing his weak field of the past.
You have not said anything to support that the past mugs would fare any better in the slams against prime Novak/Nadal/Murray.

I also see the excuse of Federer declining as soon as he started losing more frequently in the slams still being used.
Looks like a bunch of deluded fans refusing to admit that the field finally got strong enough to prevent one man from winning so much compared to the usual mugs that provided little to no resistance.

Federer lost to Roddick and Haas this year. By your faulty logic, they are older and yet are managing to beat Federer now. Does that mean prime Roddick would have destroyed the current Federer in most of their matches? Of course not. Any mug can have his day.
The current field is stronger and that's a fact.
One more reply and then you're going on the ignore list.

I offered a very striking piece of evidence in favour of past mugs doing better against Nole/Rafa/Muzz than they did against prime Fed: the fact that present mugs do better against those guys than past mugs did against Fed.

Fed started losing more against the rest of the field in 2008. What part of that sentence do you not understand? A worse player is more likely to lose against worse players.

Now piss off & stop trolling.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:45 PM   #1138
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
The noticeable fact is that Federer didn't collect 10 slams as quickly as he did when facing his weak field of the past.
You have not said anything to support that the past mugs would fare any better in the slams against prime Novak/Nadal/Murray.

I also see the excuse of Federer declining as soon as he started losing more frequently in the slams still being used.
Looks like a bunch of deluded fans refusing to admit that the field finally got strong enough to prevent one man from winning so much compared to the usual mugs that provided little to no resistance.

Federer lost to Roddick and Haas this year. By your faulty logic, they are older and yet are managing to beat Federer now. Does that mean prime Roddick would have destroyed the current Federer in most of their matches? Of course not. Any mug can have his day.
The current field is stronger and that's a fact.



Being number #1 by playing more 500 ATP or 250 is nothing impressive. Nadal could play more clay tournaments and have a much bigger tally of points to boost his rankings.



Looking at it logically, Nadal made 2 hardcourt slam finals last year and 2 masters slam finals on hardcourts. Meaning if not for Novak, Rafa would probably have 2 USO and 2 AO titles right now along with Miami/IW titles. You can't belittle the player that has owned Fed in slams for 5 years straight because it makes Fed look even more pathetic.
No body is belittling nadull . He did what he was supposed to do beat fed on conditions that favor him that's not up for debate. I agree nadull maintained the status quo.
My point is he was through out his career a practical No- show on conditions that favor fed. For one reason or the other other.
My second point the that nadull is still in his Prime but reverting back to his old clay court self . Yes he lost to Novak but he also lost to ferrer n rosol , so he is inconsistent .
There are on average 20 tourneys a year he lost to Novak 7 times won on clay like 7 times . So who beat him for the balance of tourney. Yes u guess it Mugd young n old.
For 2 years that's like 35-40 tournys
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THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:02 PM   #1139
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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One more reply and then you're going on the ignore list.

I offered a very striking piece of evidence in favour of past mugs doing better against Nole/Rafa/Muzz than they did against prime Fed: the fact that present mugs do better against those guys than past mugs did against Fed.

Fed started losing more against the rest of the field in 2008. What part of that sentence do you not understand? A worse player is more likely to lose against worse players.

Now piss off & stop trolling.
This.

In 2008 Fed lost to Nadal/Djokovic at Slams, but he also lost to mugs pretty much everywhere. This is why we consider the decline starting in 2008. Losing to Nadal was expected (ok, maybe not at wimblodon but it was a tight 5-setter during Nadal absolute peak). Fed losing to mugs he dominated though makes 2008 the year the decline started.
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Once upon a time there was a myth about strong and weak eras. On this glorious day the clownery was eventually unmasked: 30 y.o. past-prime daddy Fed became #1 once again in the supposed strong "Spartan" era with his rivals at their peak.
And they all lived happily ever after.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #1140
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Greatness playing the IF game if wasn't for Novak . Nadull won have 3 more slams is the argument.
If not for fed Roddick would have 5 slams.
What does that prove nothing. Nadull still hasn't win a title of clay even a 250/500 in MORE than 2 years.
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THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
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