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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Pete?

No. I think Federer's decline is a fact and he's not winning any major in the future. 38 17.35%
I kinda agree... He's in a great moment, but the other 2 guys are too good. No more slams for Feddy 45 20.55%
I totally agree. Fed's still playing great tennis and he'll probably win another major 104 47.49%
Hello. I'm Rod Laver and my records are intact. Suck it losers. 32 14.61%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2012, 09:33 PM   #1096
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by sco View Post
And what's wrong with playing 500 tourneys. Why shouldn't Nadal play Barcelona or Fed play Basel/Rotterdam/Dubai if he wants. Doesn't Novak play Dubai? As far as I can see, it's not exactly beneficial to play these 500 tourneys (other than the huge appearance fees these players get for playing Dubai - even then, Fed spends a lot of time there). They play 5 matches and don't earn many points. And what about Nole cleaning up in Toronto with everyone injured/withdrawing left and right?

Fed was exhausted. Pretty good stretch - SF at French, Finals at Halle, won at Wimbly, Finals at Olympics. Emotional toll from the Del Potro match took too much out of him. I'm sure he's VERY HAPPY with his summer so far even with the Olympic Finals loss - that weeks at #1 record is sweet.
It's nice to say all that but Novak didn't take away number 1 ranking away from Nadal because of winning an ATP 500.

Fed is always exhausted when he loses. If he's so good he wouldn't have needed to play 58 games to win a best of 3 on grass against Del Potro for which grass is his worst surface.

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
The only stats that count are those that make Djokovic look better, I guess.
They're the most relevant to the point I was making

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
You cannot deflect your embarrassment on others. Rotterdam was just as good as Toronto for 500 points less.

I see. Top 4 statistics was only important until you realized Federers was better. I repeat, because you have probably forgot - your memory is not up to these kinds of discussions. Unless you fail on purpose to make Federer look good. Wouldn't surprise me, but I can tell you this - it is not necessary.
Top 4 statistics are important, which is why I'm telling you that Novak is 2-1 against Federer this year. Novak has 3 more losses against the top 4 because of Nadal beating him on clay. However, on the way to those defeats, Novak straight-setted Federer twice, which is more relevant.

Last edited by Greatness : 08-16-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:34 PM   #1097
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
The more important stat is Novak being 2-1 against Federer.
The only stats that count are those that make Djokovic look better, I guess.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:35 PM   #1098
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

whats the name of this disease?
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:39 PM   #1099
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
On the big stage, Federer has lost all his slam matches against Nadal since 2008. That kind of domination diminishes a lot of his aura he developed against the weak field of his era.

Nadal made the finals of IW/Miami 2011 (destroyed Federer 6-3 6-2 in Miami), won USO 2010, made the final of USO 2011 and made the final of the AO 2012 by beating Federer again in a slam. Rafa is now a threat on all courts. Novak is the one who has been stopping him in the hardcourt slams, not Federer.
In 2008 nadull was in his prime and fed at 27 just past his.
Nadull only beat fed apart from Wimby 2008. On clay and Slow tour. The first 6 months of the year.
So nadull has the upper hand on the slow high bouncing tour 1 st half but is irrelevant for the second half generally apart from USO 2010. So the status quo is maintained that nadull is great on slow surfaces that we already know from 2005.
Fed did beat nadull in IW ragas favorite HC masters in straight sets. To set up a great 2nd half of the season but like always nadull is a no- show.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:43 PM   #1100
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
It's nice to say all that but Novak didn't take away number 1 ranking away from Nadal because of winning an ATP 500.

Fed is always exhausted when he loses. If he's so good he wouldn't have needed to play 58 games to win a best of 3 on grass against Del Potro for which grass is his worst surface.
You don't really make sound logic. Novak lost his number 1 ranking only because Federer won arguably the most prestigious title in tennis - Wimbledon. Novak lost his number 1 ranking because he lost to Federer in that tournament. Sure, Federer has accumulated a lot of points in smaller tournaments, but there is no way he could have become number 1 this year if he didn't win a Grand Slam. And to do it at Wimbledon is icing on the cake.

You also miss the point about someone being so good. Did you read my earlier post? If Nadal is so good, why did he lose to the world no. 100 in the 2nd round of Wimbledon? The more skilled player or player with more stamina etc does not necessarily win the match. Please re-read this daily for the next 10 years:

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People are talking about winning "multiple slams" like it's a walk in the park. Even if you have more skill and more stamina than the person across the net, there's no guarantee that you will win the match. There's a reason why it took so long for someone to break Roy Emerson's 12 slams. Just ask Nadal - he could be sitting on 12+ slams easily by now, but he lost 3 straight slam finals in the last 12 months. You can ask Federer about the 2009, 2010 and 2011 US Open - all matches he lost went to 5 sets and were either in the semis or finals, and he held match points in the semis (even at one stage being 40-15 up on his own formidable serve).

But this is nothing new. If you look at history, many "great" players have held match points in semis and finals and ended up losing. Many "great" players played amazing 5 set matches and ended up losing them, despite being the favourite. A vast majority (in fact, all of them) of "great" players ended up losing in early rounds of Grand Slams to "lesser" players with "less talent" and "less stamina" - ask Nadal when he lost to Rosol at Wimbledon 2012 and when he lost to Soderling in Roland Garros 2009. Sure, he may have been slightly injured or tired or whatever - every "great" player has been slightly injured or tired or whatever, and this often plays a part in their loss.

But the exception surely has to be Federer. 23 consecutive Grand Slam semi-finals and 33 consecutive quarter-finals (and counting) over 8 years is just beyond amazing. You can't possibly tell me that Federer was never slightly injured or mentally tired during this 8 year period of Grand Slam competition. But despite this, he still managed to win by playing well below his best. And this is why he has 17 Grand Slam titles. This is why he has been world no. 1 three times from 2003-2012, and is the current world no. 1, at the age of 31! This is why he has held the no. 1 ranking for the most number of weeks in history.

And this is why he must be the GOAT.

But yes, he is turning 32 next year - surely he will drop to number 4? I think it is very likely that will happen. In fact, it would be no surprise if he dropped out of the top 5. There's simply nothing significant left for him to achieve anyway - a large proportion of people are already calling him the GOAT (and have been for many years). What more can a tennis player want?
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:45 PM   #1101
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Old no knees nadull is a threat to the fishes of late. He he. Zzzzzzzz call me back if and when he wins anything of clay.. Nadull lost a lot to Novak but get real he lost to a lot more players over 2 years to not have a title of clay. Like Monfils, Kohlscriber melzer. Nadull is a clay courter who has been receiving PRP treatment since 2010 for his dodgy knees.
He is an early bloomer with a short shelf life.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:50 PM   #1102
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by luie View Post
In 2008 nadull was in his prime and fed at 27 just past his.
Nadull only beat fed apart from Wimby 2008. On clay and Slow tour. The first 6 months of the year.
So nadull has the upper hand on the slow high bouncing tour 1 st half but is irrelevant for the second half generally apart from USO 2010. So the status quo is maintained that nadull is great on slow surfaces that we already know from 2005.
Fed did beat nadull in IW ragas favorite HC masters in straight sets. To set up a great 2nd half of the season but like always nadull is a no- show.
Nadal a no-show except in the slams against Federer. lol

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Old 08-16-2012, 09:51 PM   #1103
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
Top 4 statistics are important, which is why I'm telling you that Novak is 2-1 against Federer this year. Novak has 3 more losses against the top 4 because of Nadal beating him on clay. However, on the way to those defeats, Novak straight-setted Federer twice, which is more relevant.
Djokovic has three more losses because of Nadal beating him on clay, yes. And Federer has two more losses because of Djokovic beating him on clay. So if you want to disregard clay, we have a new statistic here:
Top 4 stats without clay:
Djokovic 2012: 3-3
Federer 2012: 4-2

What do you make of this?
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:55 PM   #1104
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Safin was the exception but tennis wasn't a priority. The rest have fluke wins over Novak, as evidenced by how much they have achieved against the top players and in slams.
Roddick and Djokovic 1-1 in slams, 5-4 to Roddick head to head. But five wins are flukes, no
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:59 PM   #1105
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Roddick and Djokovic 1-1 in slams, 5-4 to Roddick head to head. But five wins are flukes, no
Wow, didn't realise Novak has a losing H2H with Roddick. How did that happen? This is yet another reason why H2H's are silly. Clearly Djokovic didn't play Roddick much in 2011 when he was dominating. Look how many times Del Potro played Federer this year and lost! If Roddick had played that many times against Djokovic in 2011, their H2H would be vastly different - likely Djokovic will lead 10-5.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:00 PM   #1106
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Roddick and Djokovic 1-1 in slams, 5-4 to Roddick head to head. But five wins are flukes, no
Nole won where it matters, only loss was at AO under 40 degrees.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:01 PM   #1107
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Nole won where it matters, only loss was at AO under 40 degrees.
You seem to have a thing for H2H. Apart from Federer and Nadal, does Djokovic have any other losing H2H's?
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:02 PM   #1108
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Circumstantial - Fed is one lucky sob - lucked his way to 17 GSs - he should stop playing tennis and focus on the $320 million PowerBall lottery tonight.

Greatness is determined by how much you win - not the greats you defeat and in which fashion. Can't blame Fed that he won almost everything and left almost nothing for the others. No one has control over who makes it to the Finals on the other side of the draw - you play who's in front of you. And in case you haven't noticed, Fed almost always makes it to the later rounds of the GSs. Not easy to do - over 8 years and counting and don't tell me he hasn't been off, slightly injured, bad days in all those 8 years.

The "weak field" theory fails - unless today is also a weak field. Fed (at age 31) sits at #1 with Nole, Nadal and Murray in their prime years.

McEnroe goes from praising Nadal to Nole - bends over backward for whoever is the latest flavor of the month. Good that Fed stunned him into near speechlessness during the Wimby Finals.
It's just rather ridiculous to suggest Fed won because of weak field, yada yada yada. He's beaten who's he's had to to win his Grand Slams( and the 2nd and 4th seeds at his last Wimbledon title). He's found a way to keep winning an no current players record is anywhere even close in terms of Grand Slams or total titles. At the end of the day, all that matters is the total record and that he has. Case closed.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:02 PM   #1109
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Nole won where it matters, only loss was at AO under 40 degrees.
True champions can handle both the opponent and weather conditions. Apparently Djokovic isn't one of them. He's the only one among Top 4 who suffers from the heat.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:02 PM   #1110
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Wow, didn't realise Novak has a losing H2H with Roddick. How did that happen? This is yet another reason why H2H's are silly. Clearly Djokovic didn't play Roddick much in 2011 when he was dominating. Look how many times Del Potro played Federer this year and lost! If Roddick had played that many times against Djokovic in 2011, their H2H would be vastly different - likely Djokovic will lead 10-5.
Indeed, but in case of Fed and Nadal, if they play 27 times from now on H2H would be same if not even worse. Clearly Nadal knows how to deal with Federer.
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