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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Pete?

No. I think Federer's decline is a fact and he's not winning any major in the future. 38 17.35%
I kinda agree... He's in a great moment, but the other 2 guys are too good. No more slams for Feddy 45 20.55%
I totally agree. Fed's still playing great tennis and he'll probably win another major 104 47.49%
Hello. I'm Rod Laver and my records are intact. Suck it losers. 32 14.61%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2012, 10:15 PM   #1081
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
Claim #1 Federer's peaked in a weak era.

Claim #2 Federer was only dominant because he was playing in a weak era.

Proving claim one does not prove claim two.

That's the problem with all these 'weak era' debates. If Federer wasn't tested, because he faced weak opposition, then how are we supposed to know what he was capable of in the first place?
Maybe Fed was so much better than the competition that he made them seem weak by comparison. If he hadn't been around the rest wouldn't have appeared so weak because they would have been beating each other.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:18 PM   #1082
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
Shame on them indeed. They should learn from Federer and play the occasional mug tournament to earn cheap points.
Mahut + Walkover against Youzhny + Niemenen + Davydenko + Delpo = 500 hard earned points from Federer.

Where was number 1 Federer at the Olympics? Getting thrashed by Murray.
And what's wrong with playing 500 tourneys. Why shouldn't Nadal play Barcelona or Fed play Basel/Rotterdam/Dubai if he wants. Doesn't Novak play Dubai? As far as I can see, it's not exactly beneficial to play these 500 tourneys (other than the huge appearance fees these players get for playing Dubai - even then, Fed spends a lot of time there). They play 5 matches and don't earn many points. And what about Nole cleaning up in Toronto with everyone injured/withdrawing left and right?

Fed was exhausted. Pretty good stretch - SF at French, Finals at Halle, won at Wimbly, Finals at Olympics. Emotional toll from the Del Potro match took too much out of him. I'm sure he's VERY HAPPY with his summer so far even with the Olympic Finals loss - that weeks at #1 record is sweet.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:19 PM   #1083
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
Novak didn't have to wait for anything. Novak started beating Federer in 2007, when he was 20 years old and Federer was 26. He made the USO final in 2007 and won the AO 2008 beating Federer on the way to the title. The problem for Novak was physical; he always had the game to be successful.
He didn't have to wait three years for his second slam?

Three years after taking his first slam, in exactly the same time frame it took Djokovic to win his second, Federer had already won eight. Nadal had four.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:22 PM   #1084
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Howard View Post
Maybe Fed was so much better than the competition that he made them seem weak by comparison. If he hadn't been around the rest wouldn't have appeared so weak because they would have been beating each other.
Precisely. All arguments about weak eras besed on what players won stop at circular reasoning. The fact that noone consistently made the semis of all slams - except Federer - could just as easily be because there were 15-20 players fighting for #2 behind him at the time, as opposed to just three players doing the same today.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:23 PM   #1085
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

yes , but federer in the semis of 2008 was not in his best level and tsonga defeated nadal in semis too , he was a bit of lucky too.

he had to wait until 2011.

this year he lost matches against mugs like isner or tipsarevic , del potro in his worst surface and after a very hard and long match against federer , could defeat nole in two sets........even hewitt or 34 years old haas were capable to won a set.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:25 PM   #1086
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by bounccer View Post
L.O.L.

Nadal was awful from the beginning.

Yes, he straight-setted his opponents but it means nothing considering their level.

Even the pussal Tomic annoyed him a little bit.
yes , but nadal without the injury and with all the confidence of his great year and victory over nole in usa would be very different to murray
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:26 PM   #1087
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Sinking to a new low? If you stop making these mistakes, you won't have to be embarrassed when people point them out to you.
You should be the one embarrassed to argue Novak only won Toronto without the top players even though the only reason Federer is ranked 1st right now is because of winning a mug tournament like Rotterdamn.

Quote:
You are counting all matches against top 4? Really? Let us see. For top 4 stats this year, we have the following:
Djokovic 2012: 4 wins, 7 losses - 36% win rate
Federer 2012: 4 wins, 4 losses - 50% win rate

You are perhaps still more impressed by Djokovic' more matches, despite there being the same amount of wins?

The more important stat is Novak being 2-1 against Federer.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:27 PM   #1088
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Djokovic gained a lot more points while Federer was absent in 2012 than the opposite.

Federer absent in MC and Toronto = 1600 points for Nole
Djokovic absent from Doha, Rotterdam and Halle = 740 points for Fed, so i don't see the point here

If you look about the 52 lasts week, you add Basel, 500 points more for Fed = still less than Djokovic

So, Greatness = big fail

F
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:30 PM   #1089
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
You should be the one embarrassed to argue Novak only won Toronto without the top players even though the only reason Federer is ranked 1st right now is because of winning a mug tournament like Rotterdamn.




The more important stat is Novak being 2-1 against Federer.
The most important stat, long after your circular arguments that try to defy the obvious principles of Ockham's Razor are lost away in some archive on a long-forgotten server, will be 17 >>>>>> 5
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:31 PM   #1090
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
You should be the one embarrassed to argue Novak only won Toronto without the top players even though the only reason Federer is ranked 1st right now is because of winning a mug tournament like Rotterdamn.

The more important stat is Novak being 2-1 against Federer.
You cannot deflect your embarrassment on others. Rotterdam was just as good as Toronto for 500 points less.

I see. Top 4 statistics was only important until you realized Federers was better. I repeat, because you have probably forgot - your memory is not up to these kinds of discussions. Unless you fail on purpose to make Federer look good. Wouldn't surprise me, but I can tell you this - it is not necessary.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:32 PM   #1091
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Because the current #1 is the GOAT.
Shhhhhh! Don't tell the tards or they'll be mad at you.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:33 PM   #1092
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by sco View Post
And what's wrong with playing 500 tourneys. Why shouldn't Nadal play Barcelona or Fed play Basel/Rotterdam/Dubai if he wants. Doesn't Novak play Dubai? As far as I can see, it's not exactly beneficial to play these 500 tourneys (other than the huge appearance fees these players get for playing Dubai - even then, Fed spends a lot of time there). They play 5 matches and don't earn many points. And what about Nole cleaning up in Toronto with everyone injured/withdrawing left and right?

Fed was exhausted. Pretty good stretch - SF at French, Finals at Halle, won at Wimbly, Finals at Olympics. Emotional toll from the Del Potro match took too much out of him. I'm sure he's VERY HAPPY with his summer so far even with the Olympic Finals loss - that weeks at #1 record is sweet.
It's nice to say all that but Novak didn't take away number 1 ranking away from Nadal because of winning an ATP 500.

Fed is always exhausted when he loses. If he's so good he wouldn't have needed to play 58 games to win a best of 3 on grass against Del Potro for which grass is his worst surface.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
The only stats that count are those that make Djokovic look better, I guess.
They're the most relevant to the point I was making

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
You cannot deflect your embarrassment on others. Rotterdam was just as good as Toronto for 500 points less.

I see. Top 4 statistics was only important until you realized Federers was better. I repeat, because you have probably forgot - your memory is not up to these kinds of discussions. Unless you fail on purpose to make Federer look good. Wouldn't surprise me, but I can tell you this - it is not necessary.
Top 4 statistics are important, which is why I'm telling you that Novak is 2-1 against Federer this year. Novak has 3 more losses against the top 4 because of Nadal beating him on clay. However, on the way to those defeats, Novak straight-setted Federer twice, which is more relevant.

Last edited by Greatness : 08-16-2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:34 PM   #1093
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
The more important stat is Novak being 2-1 against Federer.
The only stats that count are those that make Djokovic look better, I guess.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:35 PM   #1094
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

whats the name of this disease?
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:39 PM   #1095
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Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

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Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
On the big stage, Federer has lost all his slam matches against Nadal since 2008. That kind of domination diminishes a lot of his aura he developed against the weak field of his era.

Nadal made the finals of IW/Miami 2011 (destroyed Federer 6-3 6-2 in Miami), won USO 2010, made the final of USO 2011 and made the final of the AO 2012 by beating Federer again in a slam. Rafa is now a threat on all courts. Novak is the one who has been stopping him in the hardcourt slams, not Federer.
In 2008 nadull was in his prime and fed at 27 just past his.
Nadull only beat fed apart from Wimby 2008. On clay and Slow tour. The first 6 months of the year.
So nadull has the upper hand on the slow high bouncing tour 1 st half but is irrelevant for the second half generally apart from USO 2010. So the status quo is maintained that nadull is great on slow surfaces that we already know from 2005.
Fed did beat nadull in IW ragas favorite HC masters in straight sets. To set up a great 2nd half of the season but like always nadull is a no- show.
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