The Federer Decline Thread - Page 72 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

View Poll Results: Do you agree with Pete?

No. I think Federer's decline is a fact and he's not winning any major in the future. 38 17.35%
I kinda agree... He's in a great moment, but the other 2 guys are too good. No more slams for Feddy 45 20.55%
I totally agree. Fed's still playing great tennis and he'll probably win another major 104 47.49%
Hello. I'm Rod Laver and my records are intact. Suck it losers. 32 14.61%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Old 08-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #1066
country flag luie
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 3,515
luie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
You can't fluke 3 slams and 5 masters beating the top 3 players consistently. Especially since Novak defended the Australian Open and 2 of his masters this year still beating the top players to do that.

A fluke is Rosol beating Nadal at Wimbledon and losing in the next round.


There is more than one way to play the game and it will keep changing with time. Winning from the baseline is harder and more taxing physically, but that's the way a lot of players are playing today. Against Nadal, serve and volley is suicide because of his passing shots. Also, players hit with more pace which makes it tough to redirect shots at the net.



What many variables? Far more skilled players of today would destroy the weaker field Federer faced. You don't need a million variables to realize that Bagdhatis/Roddick/Gonzalez/etc at their best are nowhere near as good as Novak/Rafa/Murray. There are three players competing for slams with a legitimate chance of winning multiple ones each year. Who apart from Federer was making slam semis/finals consistently from 2003-2006 and how good were they? The answer is clear, and your logic is stupid because you keep thinking an old player can't win against a younger player otherwise it proves that he younger player isn't good.

Rafter beat Federer on grass/clay/hardcourt. However, that was 29 year old Rafter vs 20 year old Federer, who was still a baby finding his game. The past greats beating the younger players isn't a shocker. Federer beating Novak/Rafa/Murray doesn't prove they wouldn't dominate he field he faced because even the current Federer is a lot better than most of the players from 2003-2006.
It's a simple concept that you have been dodging all along with nonsense about hypotheticals/variables. Some things are obvious, you can either choose to accept it or delude yourself into thinking prime Roddick/Gonzalez/Hewitt etc are better than prime Nadal/Novak/Murray.




Glutinous Novak still straight-setted Federer at AO 2008. Gluten free Novak is 6-2 against Federer starting from AO 2011.
As expected . U fail to see that nadull is part of Feds generation . And federer played him in 05/06. He won on all surface. Nadull entered his Prime in 2007.
So u cannot put nadull in a SEPERATE group because he is Feds main rival. U can't see that then what is the point discussing with u. AGAIN Nadull played in Feds era. Gosh. His simplistic game is more applicable when he is young.
Nadull is an early bloomer. Just like Borg won a slam 18 multiple champion n finalist by 21 . Do u hear anyone young Borg. Becker/ wilander/ Chang/ Hewitt all won slams some multiple before 21 years old they are not young.
That's the concept to cannot grasp. So he is Feds rival during his dominant period.
So if u split nadull in 2 . U are saying old / injury prone nadull greater than young nadull.
Bring up rafter. Is irrelevant as fed has a different game to nadull, rafter played fed in his first ever match. Should I bring up how nadull lost to Blake/ Roddick etc no its irrelevant.
So everyone knows nadull is greater than Gonzalez etc. so what he is Feds rival. Feds career encompassed his entire career most likely.
Murray u say is better that Roddick/ ferrero/ Agassi/Safin/ hewitt. All of them has slams Murray does not.
Is Murray greater than Gonzalez /baghdatis etc. in terms of results so what. Fed beat him and nadull won against Soderling/ Berdych. Similiar in career to Baghdatis and Gonzalez as I already pointed out. So he is better than Feds second tier competition.
Novak . Feds rivals Safin/ Hewitt/ 2003 Agassi than glutinous Novak.
Gluten free Novak has accomplished more. However old fed could still take him down.unsure if he would have discovered his *allergy* winke winke back in those days. Against a faster courts and servers and flat hitters.
That take time "away" to make his FH susceptible .
Roddick has a superior h2h in his old age. PRIME Roddick on faster court I would give the edge.
__________________
The law of nature,only the strong survive.




THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
luie is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 08-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #1067
country flag Looner
Registered User
 
Looner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,055
Looner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Federer and Nadal were winning their Wimbledon titles from the basline, too.
Except for 2009, Fed never won Wimbledon only from the baseline.
__________________
Can't touch this


The "Who plays tennis?" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
Say what you want about Federer playing Baghdatis and Gonzo in AO finals... But at least he won them
Looner is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 07:58 PM   #1068
country flag yesyesok
Registered User
 
yesyesok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 219
yesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond reputeyesyesok has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Lozlles. gonzalez makes one slam final and suddenly he defines an era. i think one fails to grasp the concept that there was a broader field in prime fed era. now we have four players who have a monopoly on most big titles, including past it fed at number one which completely defeats your argument alone. tennis has changed as a result of feeders dominance and all you can seethrough tinted glasses is super novak saving tennis. Besides, tennis was far better to watch before ball bouncing and grunting became normal regardless of what era is 'stronger'
yesyesok is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #1069
country flag Fed=ATPTourkilla
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,399
Fed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond reputeFed=ATPTourkilla has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Of course, another very obvious point is that if the current era is so strong, why do we have the oldest Wimbledon champion since the 1970s and the second oldest world no 1 in the Open Era? Hardly a ringing endorsement for Djokovic, Murray, Nadal.
Fed=ATPTourkilla is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:05 PM   #1070
country flag Silvester
Registered User
 
Silvester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 1,159
Silvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond reputeSilvester has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed=ATPTourkilla View Post
Of course, another very obvious point is that if the current era is so strong, why do we have the oldest Wimbledon champion since the 1970s and the second oldest world no 1 in the Open Era? Hardly a ringing endorsement for Djokovic, Murray, Nadal.
Because the current #1 is the GOAT.
Silvester is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:09 PM   #1071
country flag Whiznot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 65
Posts: 1,252
Whiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond reputeWhiznot has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

This thread is a year older than the Maestro's twin daughters. Perhaps when the girls enter their second or third school year the decline poll might be relevant. Tough luck for fans who can't stomach the natural superiority of a genius.
Whiznot is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:12 PM   #1072
country flag Brick Top
Registered User
 
Brick Top's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Planet Djokovic
Posts: 2,419
Brick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond reputeBrick Top has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

We need Everko in this thread!
__________________
Heroes
Djoker = GOAT
DelPo = Purger of the Vultures
Hewitt = Llegend
Iron STan = Saviour of tennis
Villains
Nadull - moonballer with zero talent
Ferrer - Talentless Vulture
Tomic - overrated mug who will never win anything big
Brick Top is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:23 PM   #1073
country flag Greatness
Registered User
 
Greatness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 422
Greatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
As expected . U fail to see that nadull is part of Feds generation . And federer played him in 05/06. He won on all surface. Nadull entered his Prime in 2007.
So u cannot put nadull in a SEPERATE group because he is Feds main rival. U can't see that then what is the point discussing with u. AGAIN Nadull played in Feds era. Gosh. His simplistic game is more applicable when he is young.
Nadull is an early bloomer. Just like Borg won a slam 18 multiple champion n finalist by 21 . Do u hear anyone young Borg. Becker/ wilander/ Chang/ Hewitt all won slams some multiple before 21 years old they are not young.
That's the concept to cannot grasp. So he is Feds rival during his dominant period.
So if u split nadull in 2 . U are saying old / injury prone nadull greater than young nadull.
Bring up rafter. Is irrelevant as fed has a different game to nadull, rafter played fed in his first ever match. Should I bring up how nadull lost to Blake/ Roddick etc no its irrelevant.
So everyone knows nadull is greater than Gonzalez etc. so what he is Feds rival. Feds career encompassed his entire career most likely.
Murray u say is better that Roddick/ ferrero/ Agassi/Safin/ hewitt. All of them has slams Murray does not.
Is Murray greater than Gonzalez /baghdatis etc. in terms of results so what. Fed beat him and nadull won against Soderling/ Berdych. Similiar in career to Baghdatis and Gonzalez as I already pointed out. So he is better than Feds second tier competition.
Novak . Feds rivals Safin/ Hewitt/ 2003 Agassi than glutinous Novak.
Gluten free Novak has accomplished more. However old fed could still take him down.unsure if he would have discovered his *allergy* winke winke back in those days. Against a faster courts and servers and flat hitters.
That take time "away" to make his FH susceptible .
Roddick has a superior h2h in his old age. PRIME Roddick on faster court I would give the edge.
I've already included Nadal as one of the few players actually having the level to challenge Federer and doing it early as a teenager.
The rest of the field was a joke apart from Safin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sco View Post
The counter to your argument is that a 31 year old Federer is #1 in the prime years of Nadal, Novak and Murray. So whether it's Roddick/Gonzalez/Hewitt or Nadal/Novak/Murray, he's still #1. If you say it that way, gosh, at least Roddick/Gonzalez/Hewitt had the excuse that Federer was in his prime. What excuse do Nadal/Novak/Murray have to allow a 31 year old, past prime, married with 2 kids (because we all know from past history that marriage and kids are a death knoll to a tennis player) who should be lacking motivation and drive because he's won everything to be sitting at #1. Shame on them.
Shame on them indeed. They should learn from Federer and play the occasional mug tournament to earn cheap points.
Mahut + Walkover against Youzhny + Niemenen + Davydenko + Delpo = 500 hard earned points from Federer.

Where was number 1 Federer at the Olympics? Getting thrashed by Murray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Don't be ridiculous. My memory is excellent, if you're trying to hit a nerve you're barking up the wrong tree. You were talking about beating top players in title defences, not on the way to losing finals, and you did not qualify your statement with "mostly". Also, Djokovic never faced either Federer nor Nadal in Miami. So saying he beat top players, in plural, means you are counting as a top player...Ferrer, perhaps?
It didn't matter how I qualified my statement because it was true either way that he beat top players this year regardless.
You were the one sinking to a new low by singling out Toronto while being fully aware that he had beaten the top 4 including Federer.

I'm counting all matches versus the top four. Whether or not he faced only 1 top player in Miami because Federer was too busy losing to Roddick isn't relevant to the point that to actually win the title, he had to beat a top player.
Greatness is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:30 PM   #1074
country flag luie
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 3,515
luie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
I've already included Nadal as one of the few players actually having the level to challenge Federer and doing it early as a teenager.
The rest of the field was a joke apart from Safin.



Shame on them indeed. They should learn from Federer and play the occasional mug tournament to earn cheap points.
Mahut + Walkover against Youzhny + Niemenen + Davydenko + Delpo = 500 hard earned points from Federer.

Where was number 1 Federer at the Olympics? Getting thrashed by Murray.



It didn't matter how I qualified my statement because it was true either way that he beat top players this year regardless.
You were the one sinking to a new low by singling out Toronto while being fully aware that he had beaten the top 4 including Federer.

I'm counting all matches versus the top four. Whether or not he faced only 1 top player in Miami because Federer was too busy losing to Roddick isn't relevant to the point that to actually win the title, he had to beat a top player.
Ok now we getting some where.
Now I can also claim that Murray and del-po is a joke from the current generation.
Murray only won 1 set in GS. And del-po he is 13-2 against.
So I can also say this era is a joke apart from old nadull n gluten free Novak.
For federer that is.
__________________
The law of nature,only the strong survive.




THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
luie is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:34 PM   #1075
country flag Greatness
Registered User
 
Greatness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 422
Greatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond reputeGreatness has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed=ATPTourkilla View Post
Of course, another very obvious point is that if the current era is so strong, why do we have the oldest Wimbledon champion since the 1970s and the second oldest world no 1 in the Open Era? Hardly a ringing endorsement for Djokovic, Murray, Nadal.
In the history of tennis' Open Era, only 6 players have achieved 3 slams with multiple masters in the same year.
Three of them are playing right now and are sharing slams. That is a testament of how special the current top players are.

At Federer's peak, all he faced as a threat was baby Nadal and a lot of mugs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
Ok now we getting some where.
Now I can also claim that Murray and del-po is a joke from the current generation.
Murray only won 1 set in GS. And del-po he is 13-2 against.
So I can also say this era is a joke apart from old nadull n gluten free Novak.
For federer that is.
The only joke is Federer losing to 34 year old Haas and washed up Roddick who can't even get a first serve in anymore.
Greatness is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:35 PM   #1076
country flag sera$un
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Filchner Ice Shelf
Posts: 98
sera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond reputesera$un has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

sera$un is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:41 PM   #1077
country flag Corey Feldman
Banned!
 
Corey Feldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 95,413
Corey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond reputeCorey Feldman has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post

Where was number 1 Federer at the Olympics? Getting thrashed by Murray.
Least he made the final

Gold and Silver medals in the bank
back too back Olympics.
Corey Feldman is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:43 PM   #1078
country flag luie
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 3,515
luie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond reputeluie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatness View Post
In the history of tennis' Open Era, only 6 players have achieved 3 slams with multiple masters in the same year.
Three of them are playing right now and are sharing slams. That is a testament of how special the current top players are.

At Federer's peak, all he faced as a threat was baby Nadal and a lot of mugs.




The only joke is Federer losing to 34 year old Haas and washed up Roddick who can't even get a first serve in anymore.
On the big stage . I talk slams, that's why Presently don't rate Murray that high with his masters as compared to fed.
This era is a joke with only old injury prone no knees nadull and gluten free Novak.
Cut it any way u like. Nadull losing to the likes of 100 Rosol. Not winning a title of clay for what would be more that 2 years. He has reverted back to a core clay courter .
Gluten free Novak is ok , plus he had luck on his side at the USO. Hit n hope.
The rest of the tour is forgettable at best.
__________________
The law of nature,only the strong survive.




THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
luie is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:52 PM   #1079
country flag Burrow
Registered User
 
Burrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,004
Burrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

People throwing names around, numbers, records etc etc.

Shows how members of this forum don't know a thing about tennis because they can't judge the greatness of an era by analysing the performances themselves.
Burrow is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 09:01 PM   #1080
country flag Singularity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,839
Singularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Federer will drop to number 4 next year)

Claim #1 Federer's peaked in a weak era.

Claim #2 Federer was only dominant because he was playing in a weak era.

Proving claim one does not prove claim two.

That's the problem with all these 'weak era' debates. If Federer wasn't tested, because he faced weak opposition, then how are we supposed to know what he was capable of in the first place?
Singularity is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios