enforced sterilization, should we have it back? - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 03-03-2008, 06:52 PM   #1
country flag El Magnifico
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Croydon
Age: 23
Posts: 218
El Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond reputeEl Magnifico has a reputation beyond repute
Default enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

In my history class today we were talking about one of the 'scandals' of enforced sterilization. I'm for this procedure in special circumstances. There are way too many poor income mothers who are having extreme numbers of children (6 + 7) when they clearly can’t look after these kids, and the kids almost more than often turn out to be a similar clone of their parent. Either they turn out to be a pest to society or continue the cycle. Many young girls are having babies at terrible ages and they are put into care and a life of misery, and these girls continue to have babies when they don’t have the maturity or money to look after these kids. Often no idea who the father is or they don’t even care. It is also a good population managing tool. Also could be used to stop serious criminals and evil people reproducing and bringing more bad into the world.

Should problem potential mothers and regular offenders be permanently stopped from having children and making their life a misery? The world would be much better off with this procedure, a much cleaner world.
El Magnifico is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 03-03-2008, 07:35 PM   #2
country flag Lee
Gugaholic
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Under the blue sky
Posts: 82,849
Lee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

This is the most ignorant post I have seen lately.
Lee is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 08:10 PM   #3
country flag Zirconek
Tęnis Mambembe
 
Zirconek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 36,804
Zirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond reputeZirconek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Magnifico View Post
In my history class today we were talking about one of the 'scandals' of enforced sterilization. I'm for this procedure in special circumstances. There are way too many poor income mothers who are having extreme numbers of children (6 + 7) when they clearly can’t look after these kids, and the kids almost more than often turn out to be a similar clone of their parent. Either they turn out to be a pest to society or continue the cycle. Many young girls are having babies at terrible ages and they are put into care and a life of misery, and these girls continue to have babies when they don’t have the maturity or money to look after these kids. Often no idea who the father is or they don’t even care. It is also a good population managing tool. Also could be used to stop serious criminals and evil people reproducing and bringing more bad into the world.

Should problem potential mothers and regular offenders be permanently stopped from having children and making their life a misery? The world would be much better off with this procedure, a much cleaner world.
you are begging for someone to post about your mother's fertility skills, aren't you?
__________________
Zirconek is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 08:16 PM   #4
country flag GlennMirnyi
Banned!
 
GlennMirnyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I'm in Porto Alegre, bitch!
Posts: 42,099
GlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond reputeGlennMirnyi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

The whole post takes it too far, but reproductive control must exist. Not forced, but the goverment (especially in countries like Brazil) should encourage it.
GlennMirnyi is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 09:12 PM   #5
country flag Jelena
Registered User
 
Jelena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 80,767
Jelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond reputeJelena has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Magnifico View Post
In my history class today we were talking about one of the 'scandals' of enforced sterilization. I'm for this procedure in special circumstances. There are way too many poor income mothers who are having extreme numbers of children (6 + 7) when they clearly can’t look after these kids, and the kids almost more than often turn out to be a similar clone of their parent. Either they turn out to be a pest to society or continue the cycle. Many young girls are having babies at terrible ages and they are put into care and a life of misery, and these girls continue to have babies when they don’t have the maturity or money to look after these kids. Often no idea who the father is or they don’t even care. It is also a good population managing tool. Also could be used to stop serious criminals and evil people reproducing and bringing more bad into the world.

Should problem potential mothers and regular offenders be permanently stopped from having children and making their life a misery? The world would be much better off with this procedure, a much cleaner world.
I don't even want to read that post. But I have an opinion about that topic though. My mother just read a biography of a Chinese woman, who was a victim of enforced abortion in her own case, and who forced women to abort (until the birth). Those women, who she forced to abort their children, were after that sterilizated though they didn't want it. The woman, who wrote her biography, still has psychical problems because of that. So, NOOOO! Not at all!
__________________
Vamos Nando! Come on Andy! A portuguese Vamos to André Sá e Marcelo Melo! Vamos Gastăo!Auf geht's Dustin! Vamos Andyoni! Vamos David! Come on Tomáš! Davai Dolgo!

favourites in other sports: Bolo Zenden, Bobo Gille and Tiago Camilo

A link to positive and encouraging music: K-Love My blog in German
Mikey, you're missed
on a mission
Jelena is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:44 PM   #6
country flag Kristen
MTF. Never changes!
 
Kristen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sydney
Age: 32
Posts: 10,054
Kristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond reputeKristen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

n.b. I have pretty big issues with overpopulation, the environment, and carrying capacity. To the point where I don't think I want kids to avoid adding to the problem [although they would be damn well educated on the issue!].

I often think there should be some sort of permit before you are allowed to have children, because there are so many people out who really should not reproduce. My mothers friend has a daughter around my age who has 7 children to 7 fathers. I wish I was joking. What are those lyrics "I hate stupid people. They just eat, sleep, and multiply."

I see your point, and aside from the word 'enforced' I mostly agree with you. I just think it would be extremely difficult to find a erm 'happy' medium, to suggest this without offending. I think the only way governments could do this nicely would be to educate. But there's only so much Sex Ed we can all be given.

EDIT: My post refers to developed nations. I don't mean anything to do with 3rd world, or infanticide etc.
Kristen is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 12:15 AM   #7
country flag MisterQ
Registered User
 
MisterQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 17,115
MisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond reputeMisterQ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

Sounds like a plan to create a class of sterile poor people.

Just as poverty is not a permanent condition, neither is wealth. Let's hope those who would support such a situation don't get laid off...

At any rate, I view reproductive rights as fundamental. As for overpopulation, let's confront contributing causes instead, particularly in developing nations: poverty, lack of contraception and education, cultural barriers to family planning, son preference, and lack of status and rights for women. Add to this a couple of factors which provide the incentive to have many children: high child death rates and economies in which children are needed to perform labor and contribute to income. In nations with a high standard of living it is usually economically disadvantageous to have many children, and indeed such nations have the lowest birth rates in the world today.
__________________
Last of the moon-and-volley specialists.

I believe in luck. How else can you explain the success of those you don't like? ---Jean Cocteau
MisterQ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 03:15 AM   #8
country flag Merton
Registered User
 
Merton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,760
Merton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond reputeMerton has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

The thought of any goverment having the authority to make such decisions scares the crap out of me. Population growth slows down historically when countries develop.

Having said that, actually I think that rumors that Malthus was wrong may have been greatly exaggerated. The great story of the 21st century might very well be the return of the Malthusian trap in economic development.
__________________
Salvor Hardin: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"

From Isaac Asimov's "Foundation".
Merton is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 03:18 AM   #9
country flag Lillith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 209
Lillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

This post sounds like it could have been written by a modern day Hitler Youth Eugenics supporter.

Certain demographics have more children than others because of a lack of education, no or little access to contraception because of religious influence and control, and a male dominated culture in which the "worth" of the female is judged only by how many children she can produce. Studies consistently demonstrate that educated, emancipated and independent women have fewer children voluntarily, but they also typically live in societies in which contraception and abortion are legal and at least somewhat accepted. Improve the plight of women in this world, and you will also reduce the number of children being born.

As was said by another poster, for environmental reasons, voluntary zero population growth would be the best thing we humans could do at this point in time. But it MUST be voluntary.
Lillith is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 03:20 AM   #10
country flag Lillith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 209
Lillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond reputeLillith has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterQ View Post
Sounds like a plan to create a class of sterile poor people.

Just as poverty is not a permanent condition, neither is wealth. Let's hope those who would support such a situation don't get laid off...

At any rate, I view reproductive rights as fundamental. As for overpopulation, let's confront contributing causes instead, particularly in developing nations: poverty, lack of contraception and education, cultural barriers to family planning, son preference, and lack of status and rights for women. Add to this a couple of factors which provide the incentive to have many children: high child death rates and economies in which children are needed to perform labor and contribute to income. In nations with a high standard of living it is usually economically disadvantageous to have many children, and indeed such nations have the lowest birth rates in the world today.

"You must spread some reputation around..."

Great post, Mr. Q.
Lillith is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 04:36 AM   #11
country flag Sparko1030
Registered User
 
Sparko1030's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land of sky blue waters
Posts: 10,269
Sparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

That anyone would seriously consider forced sterilization is more than a little scary. The phrase "much cleaner world" is particulary disturbing. This kind of thinking would lead to eradicating any group or person deemed detrimental. This kind of thinking did have its "day" during the reign of facisim in the last centruy. Lets be sure to learn from the past not repeat it, OK?

Besides, why is it just the poor who are accused of being promisicuos, poor parents and generally being detrimental to society? I mean, could there be a more useless human than Paris Hilton? And Britany has proven to be such a great mom and now her 16 year old sis is following in her footsteps. Cm'on,admit it, if we're going to save the world, we'll have to sterilize the very wealthy too
__________________
NICOLAS MASSU

FERNANDO GONZALEZ

Best Wishes to: Marcos~Janko~Ivan~Marat~Lucho~Rafa~Tommy H
Gaston-best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

"Its hard to argue against cynics-they always sound smarter than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side." Molly Ivins, 1944-2007
Sparko1030 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 04:57 AM   #12
country flag buddyholly
RAVE ON
 
buddyholly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LUBBOCK TX
Posts: 13,963
buddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparko1030 View Post
Besides, why is it just the poor who are accused of being promisicuos, poor parents and generally being detrimental to society? I mean, could there be a more useless human than Paris Hilton?
Paris has kids? Not a good example of how the rich have too many kids.

And why call her useless? Is Roger Federer useless? Paris makes millions from movies, DVD's, TV shows, perfume, etc. You can't blame Paris if people buy it. In reality she is a great example of fulfilling the American dream.
__________________
JOIN THE CHURCH OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER TODAY
buddyholly is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 05:06 AM   #13
country flag buddyholly
RAVE ON
 
buddyholly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LUBBOCK TX
Posts: 13,963
buddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond reputebuddyholly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

I don't think enforced sterilization is an option. But I think the cure for global warming is very simple. All we need is a population level low enough that it permits everybody to do what they want. We tax everything, why not children? But there are too many religious taboos.
Unfortunately, in a world of so many diverse nations, global programmes are just not going to happen. There will be no controls on birth, just as there will be no meaningful controls on CO2 emissions, no matter how much Al Gore tries to scare us.
__________________
JOIN THE CHURCH OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER TODAY
buddyholly is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 05:42 AM   #14
country flag Sparko1030
Registered User
 
Sparko1030's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land of sky blue waters
Posts: 10,269
Sparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond reputeSparko1030 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Paris has kids? Not a good example of how the rich have too many kids.

And why call her useless? Is Roger Federer useless? Paris makes millions from movies, DVD's, TV shows, perfume, etc. You can't blame Paris if people buy it. In reality she is a great example of fulfilling the American dream.
More like she fulfills your dreams Her mother should have been sterilized-and Paris should be to put an end to this line of useless rich kids (according to this line of thinking) As far as her fulfilling the American dream, well, that was her grandfather or great grandfather who did that. She would not be where she is had she not been born into that life. She's capitalzied on it for sure but she'd be just be another ignorant poor woman, not a ignorant rich one had she not been born to great wealth Really, the list of wealthy people who should not or should not have reproduced is quite long.

Quit picking on the poor-who else is going to work in the sweatshops to make our cheap clothing, who else is going to do all those nasty but necessary jobs we more educated and wealthy don't want to do? Thanks goodness they do keep on having kids, otherwise who would we have to feel superior to? There must always be a a lower, more pathetic class for us to despise so we don't start turning on eachother. (this is sarcasm btw )
__________________
NICOLAS MASSU

FERNANDO GONZALEZ

Best Wishes to: Marcos~Janko~Ivan~Marat~Lucho~Rafa~Tommy H
Gaston-best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

"Its hard to argue against cynics-they always sound smarter than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side." Molly Ivins, 1944-2007
Sparko1030 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 07:18 AM   #15
country flag <Blue>
Registered User
 
<Blue>'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Age: 31
Posts: 185
<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute<Blue> has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: enforced sterilization, should we have it back?

I'm against enforced sterelization, it's not right to decide for others against their will, they're humans no matter what they do. When we broke that line for the persons we may agree "they better don't have children", humans become equal anymore, then any stupid goverment/society/group with power can sterilize another ones, and then maybe you and me, not to mention it can make some people to remove other human rights we took so long to get.

Back to the ages where the prisioners of a battle were castrated (to become slaves) and if the village was conquered the "winners" killed their children and took their women to distant lands to serve as uterus of the victorious. Or the castratti singers, so popular in their days. See how stupid we are?


In the other hand, with all goverments preventing overpopulation and wars through education, promoting common weatlh for all people and accepting differences in the long run should reduce criminals, poverty and "external enemies" just because we're all on the same side.
Just a thought.
<Blue> is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios