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Old 11-30-2007, 03:39 AM   #61
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Our government won't do anything about it unless they get paid back handers That's how it seems to work with the Labour government of Britain
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:45 AM   #62
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Originally Posted by MusicMyst View Post
And here's the Little Mo Bear, now available on eBay!
School surplus stock!!!!

But it wasn't clear if ALL bids will be turned into charity donations or just the top bid. At $500, I am not about to go higher.
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:48 AM   #63
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
School surplus stock!!!!

But it wasn't clear if ALL bids will be turned into charity donations or just the top bid. At $500, I am not about to go higher.
I put a couple of bids in Bit scared of winning it though
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:35 PM   #64
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Originally Posted by R.Federer View Post

I am not confused at all. Is it your position that these two are mutually exclusive? In other words do you think it is impossible that a "mere offensive statement" about a religion cannot incite violence? In that case I think that is your subjective opinion (and shared by Post, but not by everyone)
You are confusing again too things. I understand that some people might react in a violent way face to certain offensive remarks (there are multiple examples of that behaviour).

However, this argument has always been rejected by the US Supreme Court as a ground for restricting speech . The US Supreme Court's doctrine is that "a function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute. It may indeed best serveits high purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger" (Terminiello v. Chicago).

The argument you are using ("offensive speech may lead to violence and affect public order") was the arugment used by southern states during the 60's and 70s to ban the rallies and marches of the Civil Rights Movement. And that argument was consistently rejected by the Federal Supreme Court as a ground to ban free speech.

I may not know anything about tennis (as Gustavo would say) but I do know about this, because this is what I do, ok?
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:59 PM   #65
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Federer View Post
I am not confused at all. Is it your position that these two are mutually exclusive? In other words do you think it is impossible that a "mere offensive statement" about a religion cannot incite violence? In that case I think that is your subjective opinion (and shared by Post, but not by everyone)
I'm not sure what you are getting at here, but you seem to be saying that if someone gets violent because of something that was said, then it follows that what was said must have incited to violence. I don't think so. If someone is incited to violence by someone verbally denigrating religion, then the only lawbreaker there is the violent one, not the speaker.
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Old 11-30-2007, 02:09 PM   #66
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Originally Posted by mangoes View Post
MORE QUOTES

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071128/...ritish_teacher




I was so very upset today to read this story. Here is a woman setting out to make a small difference in this world, and this is her reward.

It's very hard to try and be rational with muslims who are extremist. I don't know how many of you remember your elementary school days, but I remember a similar exercise in my 2nd grade. Instead it was a turtle, and not a bear, for me. We named the turtle. Each student got to carry it home and we had to write about the turtle. I remember getting to carry the turtle home for the weekend and spending most of the time staring at it and feeding it lettuce.

So, this wasn't some spiteful anti Islam mission. This should have been understood without a need for arresting her. A simple, "change the bear's name" would have been the rational manner in which to handle this situation. But, unfortunately, we're dealing with a religion that makes it very hard for others to practice tolerance. More and more, each day, I find it harder and harder to look at the religion of Islam with rose colored glasses...
Great post, love

Each time i read a bullshit report like this, it just makes it harder and harder to accept Islam as a valid religion and not as an excuse to objectify women and kill people

Quote:
Sudan's top clerics said in a statement Wednesday that the full measure of the law should be applied against Gibbons, calling the incident part of a broader Western "plot" against Islam.

The Sudanese clerics said this was blasphemy and believed it was intentional.

"What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said the statement.

"It is part of the campaign of the so-called war against terrorism and the intense media campaign against Islam," they said.
wtf is this? The Sudanese ezekiel?
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:47 PM   #67
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Shoot UK teacher, say protesters

Protests took place in Khartoum following Friday prayers


Protests in Khartoum
Thousands of people have marched in the Sudanese capital Khartoum to call for UK teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot.
Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was jailed by a court on Thursday after allowing children in her class to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

She was sentenced to 15 days for insulting religion, and she will then be deported.

A Foreign Office spokesman has said Ms Gibbons said she was "fine" when visited by consular staff on Friday.

'Kill her'

The marchers took to the streets after Friday prayers to denounce the sentence as too lenient.

What we have here is a case of cultural misunderstandings

Ali Alhadithi
Federation of Student Islamic Societies


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The protesters gathered in Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace in the capital, many of them carrying knives and sticks.

Marchers chanted "Shame, shame on the UK", "No tolerance - execution" and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad".

One demonstrator told reporters that it was unacceptable to take a toy and call it Muhammad.

"We can't accept it from anybody. Even if they can do that in Europe, they cannot do it here in Sudan. We ask our rulers and judges to review what they have said. Fifteen days is not enough."

Hundreds of riot police were deployed but they did not break up the demonstration.

The Foreign Office said it was seeking more details about the protest.

'Strongest terms'

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has been in touch with Mrs Gibbons' family for a second time, speaking to a close relative of the teacher.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has expressed "in the strongest terms" the UK's concern at her detention.

On Friday afternoon a spokesman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said: "Consular staff have visited her today and she said she is fine."

He said there were no plans to issue advice to British nationals living and working in Sudan in the light of the trouble, but diplomatic staff were keeping "a close eye" on the situation.


Mrs Gibbons allowed her class to name the teddy bear Muhammad


Naming as Muhammad
Respecting feelings abroad
Bloggers condemn Sudan

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, said he could not "see any justification" for the sentence, calling it an "absurdly disproportionate response" to a "minor cultural faux pas".

The Federation of Student Islamic Societies (Fosis), which represents more than 90,000 Muslim students in the UK and Ireland, said it was "deeply concerned" at what was a "gravely disproportionate" verdict.

The federation's president, Ali Alhadithi, said: "What we have here is a case of cultural misunderstandings, and the delicacies of the matter demonstrate that it was not the intention of Gillian Gibbons to imply any offence against Islam or Muslims.

"We hope that the Sudanese authorities will take immediate action to secure a safe release for Gillian Gibbons."

In September, Mrs Gibbons allowed her class of primary school pupils to name the teddy bear Muhammad as part of a study of animals and their habitats.

The court heard that she was arrested on Sunday after another member of staff at Unity High School complained to the Ministry of Education.
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:51 PM   #68
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Originally Posted by PaulHopkins View Post
Marchers chanted "Shame, shame on the UK", "No tolerance - execution" and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad".
Next time Sudan come asking the UK for aid (we give them over £60m each year) they can fuck right off!
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

How horrible. Poor woman.

Hopefully she will be released unharmed and allowed to return home but even so this incident and its outfall will have scarred her for life.
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Old 11-30-2007, 04:21 PM   #70
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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How horrible. Poor woman.

Hopefully she will be released unharmed and allowed to return home but even so this incident and its outfall will have scarred her for life.
Hopefully she will be out of the prison soon - they cram up to 20 people in a cell and they are treated very poorly!
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Old 11-30-2007, 04:29 PM   #71
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Islam is the religion of peace remember.
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Old 11-30-2007, 04:37 PM   #72
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Good to see Islam showing the world how peaceful their religion is again.

Will any of the moderate Muslims come out to defend this poor woman from the murderous radicals?
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Old 11-30-2007, 05:11 PM   #73
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
Good to see Islam showing the world how peaceful their religion is again.

Will any of the moderate Muslims come out to defend this poor woman from the murderous radicals?
I understand that British Muslims already have. But Muslims in Muslim-controlled countries would be afraid to. No doubt the mobs on the streets have been organised by the government. Hopefully it is because they can then release the woman and show the world how ''wonderful'' they are to forgive her, even when the citizens are braying for death.
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:05 PM   #74
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

What I would really like to see (not that I'm holding my breath) is some of the so-called moderate and modern Islamic governments express their disgust. Right now, there's nothing but deafening silence.
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:32 PM   #75
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

I have come into many threads and been called a defender of Islam etc and that I never go against them, well just to make this clear this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and think people who are seriously offended are total morons and a country which imprisons someone for this is clearly acting in a ludicrous manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtw View Post
You know, if she named this toy Muhammad and this name is reserved only for people and it is name of their prophet, who is creator of their religion. People should pass to the law of country in which they live hospitably.
Can you imagine that a man from Sudan would live in USA and he would buy for instance a pig and named it for instance George. Would it be tolerated in your country?
Your stupidity amazes me.

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Originally Posted by PaulHopkins View Post
The next time we have Red Nose Day or Live Aid in England I'll be giving them two words and the second one is "off"
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulHopkins View Post
Next time Sudan come asking the UK for aid (we give them over £60m each year) they can fuck right off!
This is the kind of stupidity that really pisses me off.
Your great idea is that because the Sudanese have imprisoned a British woman for something which no-one should be imprisoned for we should... do as much as we can to make the people of the whole country suffer???
What nonsense is this? So, their law on this matter (and as far as i can see many matters) is awful, so what? We leave people living in dreadful conditions? Sure, that'll be a big help . The common people in Sudan do not deserved punished for this and even if the common people in Sudan all want the teacher punished the thing to do is not to stop helping them.

I wonder what you think that would achieve.
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