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Old 11-29-2007, 05:09 AM   #31
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Yes, it was the kids that named the teddy bear.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:03 AM   #32
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

Latest update on the story: (again from BBC)

UK teacher due before Sudan court

If convicted Gillian Gibbons could face a prison sentence
A British teacher charged in Sudan with insulting religion, inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs is due to appear in court later.
Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, will appear at a court in Khartoum and, if convicted, could face a prison sentence, a fine or 40 lashes.

She was arrested in Khartoum after allowing her class of primary school pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

The UK is seeking an urgent meeting with the Sudanese ambassador in London.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has said he will summon the Sudanese ambassador "as a matter of urgency".

In a statement, Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he was "surprised and disappointed" that the teacher had been charged following blasphemy claims.

A spokesman said the first step was to "understand the rationale behind the charge", something which would be discussed by Mr Miliband and the ambassador as soon as possible.

"We will consider our response in the light of that," he added.




What can't be named Muhammad?

Sudanese state media said prosecutors had completed their investigation and decided to charge Mrs Gibbons under Article 125 of the Sudanese criminal code.

The Muslim Council of Britain reacted angrily to the news, saying it was "appalled" and demanded Mrs Gibbons' immediate release.

"This is a disgraceful decision and defies common sense. There was clearly no intention on the part of the teacher to deliberately insult the Islamic faith," said Secretary-General Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, in a strongly-worded statement.

"We call upon the Sudanese President, Omar al-Bashir, to intervene in this case without delay to ensure that Ms Gibbons is freed from this quite shameful ordeal," said Dr Bari.

Earlier, the Sudanese Embassy in London had said the situation was a "storm in a teacup" and signalled that the teacher could be released soon, attributing the incident to a cultural misunderstanding.

But Sudan's top clerics have called for the full measure of the law to be used against Mrs Gibbons and labelled her actions part of a Western plot against Islam.

Mrs Gibbons was arrested on Sunday after several parents made complaints to Sudan's Ministry of Education.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:04 AM   #33
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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The Muslim Council of Britain reacted angrily to the news, saying it was "appalled" and demanded Mrs Gibbons' immediate release.

"This is a disgraceful decision and defies common sense. There was clearly no intention on the part of the teacher to deliberately insult the Islamic faith," said Secretary-General Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, in a strongly-worded statement.

"We call upon the Sudanese President, Omar al-Bashir, to intervene in this case without delay to ensure that Ms Gibbons is freed from this quite shameful ordeal," said Dr Bari.
I think this is important to highlight. Also the fact that the Sudanese embassy think she will be released shortly.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

If any of the Sudanese Muslim clerics or government officials are named ''Muhammad'' and their parents have not been flogged and locked up, then this is adequate precedent that in Sudan there is no crime in naming animals ''Muhammad''
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

All I hope is that any Westerners who feel compelled to help educate countries such as Sudan think twice after this! If this is the way they operate then sod them and leave them to it! If these countries are discouraging western "missions" and "education" then they it is their fault should there be an inevitable increase in AIDS cases etc.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Not true. Abortion is legal in all states.
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Yeah, I thought so. Isn't that what Roe v Wade was all about:- Abortion is a constitutional right? And so American politics has been mired down in the abortion issue for years because the religious right just can't accept that they are not calling the shots for everyone.
I don't think that is exactly correct. The legality of abortion depends on a number of issues which are STATE mandated. The federal mandate does NOT supercede state's own decisions

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The current judicial interpretation of the U.S. Constitution regarding abortion in the United States, following the Supreme Court of the United States's 1973 landmark decision in Roe v. Wade, and subsequent companion decisions, is that abortion is legal but may be restricted by the states to varying degrees. States have passed laws to restrict late term abortions, require parental notification for minors, and mandate the disclosure of abortion risk information to patients prior to treatment.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:57 PM   #37
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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There is a huge difference: in the US it is not a crime (and it cannot be a crime) to denigrate a religion. They take free speech a bit more seriously.
I think you are confused about my post or maybe your own post. You said "..it is not a crime (and it cannot be a crime) to denigrate a religion. They take free speech a bit more seriously" and I responded to that and explained to you that "free speech" is not a blank check to say what you want about who or whatever you want. You CAN be prosecuted successfully if your "free speech" violates the exclusions of the First Amendment. It is not the "speech" which is the violation, it is the consequence of that speech which could be.
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FIrst: I said "denigrating" a religion. Not inciting to violence. You are confusing two different things
I am not confused at all. Is it your position that these two are mutually exclusive? In other words do you think it is impossible that a "mere offensive statement" about a religion cannot incite violence? In that case I think that is your subjective opinion (and shared by Post, but not by everyone)
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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I think this is important to highlight. Also the fact that the Sudanese embassy think she will be released shortly.
I think many expected her to be released quickly. However, one has to consider the strength of the religious leaders calling for her to be punished. Omar al-Bashir took over via a coup and built his government's foundation upon returning the legal code to Islamic Sharia law thereby gaining the support of religious extremists. The idiot al-Bashir waves his religious devotion like a red flag. Therefore, this situation will prove more tricky for him. He can't exactly let her go because that will annoy the very root of his base supporters.


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I don't think that is exactly correct. The legality of abortion depends on a number of issues which are STATE mandated. The federal mandate does NOT supercede state's own decisions
Yes, the Federal mandate does supercede the state's own decision about abortion. Republicans would like to strike down Roe vs Wade and have the States make their own laws. Democrats would like to keep Roe vs Wade intact with the States passing smaller laws to govern abortion rights such as parental notification.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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If any of the Sudanese Muslim clerics or government officials are named ''Muhammad'' and their parents have not been flogged and locked up, then this is adequate precedent that in Sudan there is no crime in naming animals ''Muhammad''
Good one...
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Yes, the Federal mandate does supercede the state's own decision about abortion. Republicans would like to strike down Roe vs Wade and have the States make their own laws. Democrats would like to keep Roe vs Wade intact with the States passing smaller laws to govern abortion rights such as parental notification.
Cheryl, federal law would supercede state law only IF there was a conflict.

But it is a provision of Roe v. Wade, ie the Federal mandate includes the provision that states be allowed to dictate what their law is in regards to abortion subsequent to the first trimester. This means that in some states where such a law has been passed, the state is within its rights to prosecute if the abortion is carried out and deemed to be (for e.g.) not due to risk to the mother's health.

Roe v. Wade is a uniform right for any person and in any place only up to the first 12 weeks. The states vary widely in what happens after that, and that IS a right given to states by Federal law.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:14 PM   #41
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

This is a total joke, the Sudanese officials should be ashamed and as for the parents who complained
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:18 PM   #42
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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If any of the Sudanese Muslim clerics or government officials are named ''Muhammad'' and their parents have not been flogged and locked up, then this is adequate precedent that in Sudan there is no crime in naming animals ''Muhammad''
There are 100s.

Syrian Prime Minister Muhammad Naji al-Otari
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

She should call this Teddy Bear for instance Tony or this second guy of GB and the case would be arranged.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:35 PM   #44
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

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Cheryl, federal law would supercede state law only IF there was a conflict.

But it is a provision of Roe v. Wade, ie the Federal mandate includes the provision that states be allowed to dictate what their law is in regards to abortion subsequent to the first trimester. This means that in some states where such a law has been passed, the state is within its rights to prosecute if the abortion is carried out and deemed to be (for e.g.) not due to risk to the mother's health.

Roe v. Wade is a uniform right for any person and in any place only up to the first 12 weeks. The states vary widely in what happens after that, and that IS a right given to states by Federal law.
I think there is a misunderstanding between us. You're getting into the nitty gritty of the law and talking about partial birth abortions.

You stated that abortion is illegal in the US in an earlier post and elaborated on your statement using Federal vs State law. However, abortion is legal in the US as per Roe v Wade. Federal law supercedes State laws in this matter. And, as you just pointed out, the Federal law leaves room for the States to determine the law for partial birth abortions and for other matters such as parental notification. Should those within a state disagree with laws such as parental notification, the matter can be brought before the Supreme Court which has the right to strike down the law if they deem it a violation of the Federal law.

In a nutshell: Abortions need to be done during the first trimester. It is illegal to perform a partial birth abortion unless the mother's life is at risk. If a woman has a partial birth abortion with no medical reason, she has committed a crime.

I just reread your posts and now see your train of thought. My original thoughts on your posts didn't follow along that path. Misunderstanding I think your original statement threw me off as it seems to have done to others.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:46 PM   #45
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Default Re: Sudanese hissy fits over teddy bear

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071129/...ritish_teacher

Briton convicted in Sudan blasphemy case


KHARTOUM, Sudan - A British teacher in Sudan was convicted Thursday of inciting religious hatred for letting her pupils name a teddy bear Muhammad, and she was sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation from the country, one of her lawyers said.

Gillian Gibbons was arrested Sunday after complaints to the Education Ministry that she had insulted Prophet Muhammad, the most revered figure in Islam, by applying his name to a toy animal.

The maximum penalty in the case, which has attracted worldwide attention, was 40 lashes and six months in prison.

"The judge found Gillian Gibbons guilty and sentenced her to 15 days jail and deportation," said Ali Mohammed Hajab, a member of her defense team.
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