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Old 11-28-2007, 12:57 AM   #31
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Originally Posted by cmurray View Post
I concur - it DOES make you feel better. The growth hormones and anti-biotics that cattle are given are TERRIBLE for humans. I like the taste of red meat, but it isn't worth it for me.
You don't seem to have any other reason to not eat red meat other than it is not good for you. I don't eat much either but I do like the taste and I do not think there is any reason to totally reject it. If you avoid junk food, then when the occasion merits it, a nice juicy, rare steak and a salad is a great way to treat yourself - because you deserve it! And yes, about twice a year I have a Bic Mac and fries.

And when I was recovering from a bad case of malaria, the doctor advised me to eat a lot of liver. What would a vegan do in that situation?
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:19 AM   #32
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

Well i can say im not a vegan, But i really do disagree with people Slaughtering Animals... I only ever eat Steak, that is the only form of meat i would eat.

With the grain it takes to feed a cow for its lifetime you could feed a family for many years Seems simple enough to me. I would prefer that grain to go to a hungry family rather than a cow who is simply being raised to be slaughtered.

and i treuly agree with that statement of yours.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Originally Posted by Guarrigues View Post
Well i can say im not a vegan, But i really do disagree with people Slaughtering Animals... I only ever eat Steak, that is the only form of meat i would eat.

With the grain it takes to feed a cow for its lifetime you could feed a family for many years Seems simple enough to me. I would prefer that grain to go to a hungry family rather than a cow who is simply being raised to be slaughtered.

and i treuly agree with that statement of yours.
Well, you certainly know where you stand on this issue.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:40 AM   #34
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
ecause you deserve it! And yes, about twice a year I have a Bic Mac and fries.

And when I was recovering from a bad case of malaria, the doctor advised me to eat a lot of liver. What would a vegan do in that situation?
Tofliver?
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:19 PM   #35
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Great pun! Oh wait, they only count when you know you did it.

I have actually never come across a diseased egg. Lucky me!
Do you perform tests on eggs before you eat them?

And that pun has been a joke between my Dad and I for years. Ass, u, me, you know that one right?
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

And Buddy, how come you are so silent about the points that Q and I raised?
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:42 PM   #37
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Originally Posted by Nunyabeezwax View Post
Raising livestock en mass is also very harmful to the environment.
Of course, this is already a big problem for the future. Mass production of animal products brings a lot of problems. Where you have a lot of animals, you will have to deal with diseases of all kind. Especially chickens or turkeys from a big farm are often not much more than antibiotics and other immunisations cocktails because so many animals at one place are a big incubator for diseases.
Also you have to consider that the population is growing and so did the demand for these animal products over the last time. Animal manure and animal emissions have an impact on our environment, for example a cow produces lots of methane gas (CH4) which is about 20-times more dangerous for the climate and ozone layer than CO2. But CO2 is the much much bigger amount, so CH4 by cows is only a very little piece of the overall effect. But still, these are all little pieces.

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Buying locally may be the only way to truly combat this system. I have tried to do this more often lately --- but it's not easy to stick to that mantra.
I also try to do this as often as I can. But you don't have the possibility to buy local bio food everywhere and plus I also want to enjoy some food where I can't avoid that I will not know from where it does exactly come from. Also another factor not to forget is the higher price. If you have enough people who are struggling financially to manage their living, you won't get them to buy something which costs around 50% more.

___
A completely different point I want to add is referring to "I only eat what I cook" somebody said above. This is the ideal solution if you can do that, but I think our society in most countries became too different to realize this. Too many single households, and if you have a family, too often -even in ordinary middle-class families- both parents have to go to work to earn the living. And who comes home from work in the evening, is maybe tired from the day, just wants to relax a bit, to cook him/herself (alone?) a nice, but very time-intensive meal with fresh and natural ingredients where nothing was prepared. And what are you doing during your lunch break when you are at work? Usually you should have the most important warm meal of your day at this time and not in the evening.
It's really difficult to pay attention to these important things.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:18 AM   #38
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Homo sapiens is naturally an omnivore. That is how he evolved.

And animals don't have rights. When a law is passed forbidding cruelty to animals, that is a decision of homo sapiens. If animals had rights they would claim the right to eat us all up.
Some would claim that humans are also naturally murderers of their own race. I'm sure you'd enjoy some Hobbes, so you probably know this. It does not matter what is natural, that's not a good reason for it. We also have the ability not to do it.

The fact that animals aren't as intelligent as us does not mean that they have no rights. As i said originally, creating rights for animals and then having them killed is something close to paradoxical, it's certainly illogical. There is no way to show that animals have rights much as there is no way to show that humans should have rights, it is simply a belief that is held throughout the world. If one accepts that there are such things as animal rights then a basic one would certainly be we can't kill them just cos we fancy some meat when there is no need to do so.

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As far as chickens are concerned, my stepdad lives in a little backwoods town near Mt. Rainier in Washington state. He has a chicken coop with 3 chickens and a hen. They are really cool little animals. When I go to visit him, I like to go into the chicken coop and play with them. They seem to enjoy the attention. They also like to chase his dogs around. It's pretty damn cute.

And then a few miles down the road there is one of those egg factory things. I assume there are thousands of chickens and hens in there. When you drive by, you can smell it from almost a mile away. It's a fowl, horrible odor. And the conditions there are perfectly hospitable to disease. And those diseased eggs make it to our dinner tables.

So of course, someone is going to ask, do I eat the eggs that my dad's chickens lay? Nope. And that's because since I've gone vegan my skin has taken on a rather nice healthy look. Dig deep enough and you can always find a superficial answer for everything.
Certainly where I live, packs of eggs tell you in what conditions the chickens are kept. You have a choice between free-range eggs, barn eggs and basically caged eggs. If you just buy free-range eggs, isn't that problem theoretically sorted?
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Originally Posted by Nunyabeezwax View Post
And Buddy, how come you are so silent about the points that Q and I raised?
And what were those?

But if you mean how great it makes you feel, then sure, eating right makes you feel great. But for me, eating right means a balanced diet that includes all foods.
I think that a vegan reasons that meat is bad for you, when the point is really that excessive meat and fat is bad for you. Cutting it out completely is not necessarily the right think to do, just the most extreme. In the same manner, keeping one's weight down will make you feel better, but that does not mean that becoming anorexic will make you feel the best of all.

But there seem to be two discussions here. Are we talking about the effects of various foods on our bodies or are we talking about the rights of animals, and insects even, to be left alone? Personally I think anyone who will not wear silk because it is cruel to silk worms, has lost the thread (pun intended.)
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

This one has selective vision I suppose.

When are you going to address the environmental impacts that have been raised several times in this thread? I suppose you aren't because you likely don't have an adequate response.

Some here say the answer is to buy locally. My personal decision has been to go vegan. Either way, the environment benefits from our decisions.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

Those crazy monks.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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Originally Posted by Nunyabeezwax View Post
When are you going to address the environmental impacts that have been raised several times in this thread? I suppose you aren't because you likely don't have an adequate response.
I'm not. Taking political correctness to the point of absurdity does not interest me. What do you expect Icelanders, for example, to do in their country that is unsuited for agriculture? Sit on the shore and starve to death while they watch the fish shoaling?
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:09 AM   #43
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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My personal decision has been to go vegan. Either way, the environment benefits from our decisions.
I can feel the earth cooling already.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:17 AM   #44
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I can feel the earth cooling already.
that one made me laugh...
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:52 AM   #45
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Default Re: Any vegans out there?

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I can feel the earth cooling already.
One of your best retorts!
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