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View Poll Results: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Yes, I'm a Theist (Believe in holy revelation via a "Holy Book") 57 19.52%
Yes, I'm a Deist (Believe in God based upon the existence of the Universe and evolved life) 40 13.70%
Perhaps, I'm Agnostic (As there is conflicting, or a lack of, evidence you just don't know) 73 25.00%
No, I'm an Atheist (science will eventually understand the origins of the Big Bang/Universe) 122 41.78%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-22-2009, 06:50 PM   #511
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
It's not personal, Habib. It's just frustrating. I'm pretty much a veteran when it comes to these religious discussions and I hear the same arguments over and over. When you're not discussing religion, you're a sound guy. When you start talking about religion, though, I just want beat you over the head with a science textbook.
Your arguments aren't exactly original either. Every forum on the internet, be it about tennis or icelandic reptiles has a thread like this, and every thread like this have a guy like you repeating all over the same

in fact this very same discussion is almost as old as mankind so stop pretending originality FFS.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:31 PM   #512
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
Exactly. Pure belief based on no scientific evidence.
Just like not believing in fairies and unicorns is "pure belief".
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #513
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Agnosticism is clearly the most "natural" position. Any other thing is based on pure belief.
It's not natural and it isn't practical. As I said earlier, we are all technically agnostics. In practice, none of us are. Are you an agnostic when it comes to every other God that has been invented throughout history? Technically, you are. However, if someone asks you if Zeus exists, your opinion is going to be "no".
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:40 PM   #514
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
Your arguments aren't exactly original either. Every forum on the internet, be it about tennis or icelandic reptiles has a thread like this, and every thread like this have a guy like you repeating all over the same

in fact this very same discussion is almost as old as mankind so stop pretending originality FFS.
It's not the fact that the arguments are unoriginal. It's that they don't hold up under scrutiny.

Glad you entered the thread, though. That's all this thread needs, someone who thinks that not believing in fairies and unicorns requires just as much faith as a positive belief in an all-powerful deity.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:28 PM   #515
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCM View Post
Longest argument in the history of MTF??
Of course, Clydey's in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
Exactly. Pure belief based on no scientific evidence.

Why would I explain that, Im not a believer

Now you try to scientifically explain why there musn't be a God, or ask Clydey to. Good luck.
You said that agnosticism is the most scientific position. Prove it.

It's not scientific to believe in a superior power. It's scientific to believe only in something you can prove its existence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Agnosticism is clearly the most "natural" position. Any other thing is based on pure belief.
So it's natural for you to believe in a superior power... interesting.

That's called inferiority complex.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:47 PM   #516
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

God is not a superior power for everybody (or at least not an omnipotent being). I would say for Christians it's the creative power of the universe and the power who creates our own free will (if I'm wrong just correct me).

I rather like that idea. It reminds me of what John Fowles argued in The French Lieutenant's Woman : "If God exists, it can only be the Freedom that allows other freedoms to exist." And I think it's close to the Christian point of view.

Free will to me has religious origins. If everything is material that means we would be predetermined by chemical reactions. I personnally can't believe in that. But that's just belief and I assume it.

Believing in some you can prove the existence is rather silly because if you can prove it you just CAN'T deny it. If you believe in something or in something else, it just mean you can't prove it. But by the way science can only focus on material things. So what about abstraction? Sentimentality: love, hate, beauty, ugliness, etc. What has science to do with that?

Last edited by Echoes : 10-22-2009 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:54 AM   #517
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
It's not natural and it isn't practical. As I said earlier, we are all technically agnostics. In practice, none of us are. Are you an agnostic when it comes to every other God that has been invented throughout history? Technically, you are. However, if someone asks you if Zeus exists, your opinion is going to be "no".
I take the notion "is there a God"? when I say agnosticism is the most natural position. Not "does this X God exist?".

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Of course, Clydey's in it.
This is gold.

Quote:
So it's natural for you to believe in a superior power... interesting.

That's called inferiority complex.
What you on about? I said agnosticism is the most natural position.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 10-23-2009, 02:08 AM   #518
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I take the notion "is there a God"? when I say agnosticism is the most natural position. Not "does this X God exist?".



This is gold.



What you on about? I said agnosticism is the most natural position.
Agnosticism is believing in a superior power but not actually acknowledging any superior power as religions say so.
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:12 AM   #519
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

No.

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Old 10-23-2009, 05:10 AM   #520
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Of course, Clydey's in it.



You said that agnosticism is the most scientific position. Prove it.

It's not scientific to believe in a superior power. It's scientific to believe only in something you can prove its existence.



So it's natural for you to believe in a superior power... interesting.

That's called inferiority complex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Agnosticism is believing in a superior power but not actually acknowledging any superior power as religions say so.

you obviously have no clue of what agnosticism means
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:33 AM   #521
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
you obviously have no clue of what agnosticism means
Look who's talking: someone who can't grasp what atheism means.
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:55 AM   #522
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

My dad is bigger than yours
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:07 AM   #523
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

some of the arguments in this thread are pure gem
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:28 AM   #524
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Agnosticism is believing in a superior power but not actually acknowledging any superior power as religions say so.


Agnosticism is not knowing. Simple as that.

Noun: agnosticism ag'nós-ti`si-zum

1. A religious orientation of doubt; a denial of ultimate knowledge of the existence of God
"agnosticism holds that you can neither prove nor disprove God's existence"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:13 PM   #525
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Pretty good discussion, guys. Habibko won it by reason of having an argument that resembles mine.
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