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View Poll Results: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Yes, I'm a Theist (Believe in holy revelation via a "Holy Book") 57 19.52%
Yes, I'm a Deist (Believe in God based upon the existence of the Universe and evolved life) 40 13.70%
Perhaps, I'm Agnostic (As there is conflicting, or a lack of, evidence you just don't know) 73 25.00%
No, I'm an Atheist (science will eventually understand the origins of the Big Bang/Universe) 122 41.78%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-18-2009, 09:58 PM   #391
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
You cannot prove that something doesn't exist. If you can't prove that something exists, it doesn't exist. Men had limited means of comprehending the universe, therefore it couldn't prove the existence of some things. For those men, they didn't exist. The humanity has expanded its ability to comprehend the universe and can prove NOW that those things exist.

You can't judge the past on knowledge of the present. It's like saying the European sailors in the XV century were stupid because they didn't use steam powered ships. They didn't even know that such a thing as steam power existed - therefore to them, it didn't exist.
there is a difference between "for those men it didn't exist" and "it didn't exist".

it's the same position with the existence of God, we don't have the means or tools to prove or know that for sure, we can't run at the speed of light, we can't lift a mountain with our bare hands, and in the same way there are things that our brain simply can't comprehend, and that doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does it prove it doesn't exist.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:59 PM   #392
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
atheism |ˈāθēˌizəm|
noun
the theory or belief that God does not exist.
DERIVATIVES
atheist noun
atheistic |ˌāθēˈistik| adjective
atheistical |-ˈistikəl| adjective
ORIGIN late 16th cent.: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god.’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implici...plicit_atheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_and_strong_atheism
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:02 PM   #393
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
atheism's definition is more complicated and broad than that, it also includes people that assert that deities or God DO NOT AND CAN'T EXIST, and they will bring you many arguments and use their own rationality to PROVE that God can't exist, have you never met people like this? that is what I was referring to as blind faith.
You're wrong. The definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe in God. You are confusing the definition with many things that often go hand in hand with being an atheist. For example, you'll find that most atheists have a profound respect for science. The two often go hand in hand, but you needn't be fond of science to be an atheist.

Atheism is an opinion, not a philosophy, not an assertion, nor a religion. It is the opinion that God does not exist. There may be atheists out there who do state explicitly that God does not exist. However, that does not fall under the definition of atheism. There are Christians out there who state with total conviction that there is a God. That, however, does not fall under the definition of "faith". By definition, faith is inherently irrational. It is a belief not supported by evidence.

Could you answer my question please?

What is the logical position to the question of whether or not Santa Claus exists?
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:04 PM   #394
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
What are you talking about? Atheism isn't a philosophy, nor is it a religion. Think of the word "atypical". It means "not typical". By the same token, "atheist" means "not a theist". It simply means that you don't believe in a God. That is where the definition begins and ends. You're an atheist, too. You just don't realise it. To paraphrase an old saying, "We are all atheists when it comes to 99.999% of the 'Gods' out there. Some of us just go one God further".

Answer this question please. What is the logical position to the question of whether or not Santa Claus exists?
I already answered the first part, you need to read more about the definition of atheism.

as for the question: the logical position is we can't know for sure, but there is something called "common sense" that we use to establish our values and truths.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:05 PM   #395
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
there is a difference between "for those men it didn't exist" and "it didn't exist".

it's the same position with the existence of God, we don't have the means or tools to prove or know that for sure, we can't run at the speed of light, we can't lift a mountain with our bare hands, and in the same way there are things that our brain simply can't comprehend, and that doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does it prove it doesn't exist.
It is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

Is it logical to remain neutral on the existence of fairies?
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:06 PM   #396
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Go away, you sanctimonious church-goer.
I don't go to church.

Interesting discussion though. We can all continue with it in hell.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:07 PM   #397
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
His general theory isn't meant necessarily to be taken as the limiting factor for reason.
Sorry I don't get what you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey
Agnosticism is a superfluous term. Technically speaking, we are all agnostics. We don't know anything for sure.
True. That's why I no longer consider myself as an agnostic like I used to do when I was a teenager and went back to christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi
If you can't prove that something exists, it doesn't exist.
Then nothing exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko
they will bring you many arguments and use their own rationality to PROVE that God can't exist, have you never met people like this? that is what I was referring to as blind faith.
There's truth in that. The atheists base their arguments on science and rationality for something that goes beyond it. That's why atheism sucks.

Last edited by Echoes : 10-18-2009 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:11 PM   #398
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

This is like a basic bet: I bet on this player, on the other one, or I pass.

Which one is more logical? It depends on the outcome of the match...
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:12 PM   #399
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
I already answered the first part, you need to read more about the definition of atheism.

as for the question: the logical position is we can't know for sure, but there is something called "common sense" that we use to establish our values and truths.
I know plenty about the definition of atheism. You are talking about various philosophies that may have come about as the result of atheism. For example, some people confuse Stalin's philosophy with atheism. Some people make lazy connections.

The actual definition of atheism is simple, however. It means "not a theist". The clue is the word itself. This isn't difficult. And you wonder why I lose my cool with you? You don't listen. Look at the word.

Common sense tells us that God does not exist. There is no more evidence for God than there is for Santa Claus.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:14 PM   #400
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
It is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

Is it logical to remain neutral on the existence of fairies?
from a purely logical stand point, yes you must be neutral since as you said you can't prove something doesn't exist, but as I said we also have "common sense" and not only "logic".
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:17 PM   #401
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
This is like a basic bet: I bet on this player, on the other one, or I pass.

Which one is more logical? It depends on the outcome of the match...
A poor analogy. I have a better one.

I can bet on Federer, on Alex Bogdanovic, or I can pass.

Federer represents atheism, Boggo represents theism, while passing represents agnosticism.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:18 PM   #402
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

No. I'm an Athiest.

To me God doesn't exist. I find it quite ridiculous how many people believe in something someone wrote thousands of years ago, and that is very very questionable. What I find weird is why doesn't God kill all the bad people in the world today? He apparently killed everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah, but why didn't he kill Hitler? Or Charles Manson? Or every other disgusting evil people in the world?

Also if there was no religion the world would be a better place.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:18 PM   #403
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
That is a common mistake. Many people think that atheism is an assertion that there is no God. It isn't. No one can say for certain that there is no God. Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

Agnosticism is a superfluous term. Technically speaking, we are all agnostics. We don't know anything for sure. Are you an agnostic when it comes to the Easter Bunny? Technically you are. We all are. However, it's an impractical position. If someone asks you whether Santa Claus exists, you're going not going to shrug your shoulders and say, "I don't know". You'll say "No". Or if you're hyper-rational, like I am, you'll say, "There's a 99.9999% chance that he doesn't he exist".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
You're wrong. The definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe in God. You are confusing the definition with many things that often go hand in hand with being an atheist. For example, you'll find that most atheists have a profound respect for science. The two often go hand in hand, but you needn't be fond of science to be an atheist.

Atheism is an opinion, not a philosophy, not an assertion, nor a religion. It is the opinion that God does not exist. There may be atheists out there who do state explicitly that God does not exist. However, that does not fall under the definition of atheism. There are Christians out there who state with total conviction that there is a God. That, however, does not fall under the definition of "faith". By definition, faith is inherently irrational. It is a belief not supported by evidence.

Could you answer my question please?

What is the logical position to the question of whether or not Santa Claus exists?
You're right, atheism and theism are based on BELIEFS. But you're not right in putting the belief in Santa Claus and God in the same basket. The only thing they have in common is that they're both overweight old men with long white beards. But one of them is obviously an invention of folklore, while the other one... you know what I mean.
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:19 PM   #404
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
from a purely logical stand point, yes you must be neutral since as you said you can't prove something doesn't exist, but as I said we also have "common sense" and not only "logic".
That's the point. Agnosticism is an impractical position. We are all technically agnostics. However, in practice no one is an agnostic. Common sense tells us that fairies do not exist, just as common sense tells us that there isn't a man sitting on a cloud, listening to people's wishes and granting them.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:19 PM   #405
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
This is like a basic bet: I bet on this player, on the other one, or I pass.

Which one is more logical? It depends on the outcome of the match...
Pascal's Wager...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
I know plenty about the definition of atheism. You are talking about various philosophies that may have come about as the result of atheism. For example, some people confuse Stalin's philosophy with atheism. Some people make lazy connections.

The actual definition of atheism is simple, however. It means "not a theist". The clue is the word itself. This isn't difficult. And you wonder why I lose my cool with you? You don't listen. Look at the word.

Common sense tells us that God does not exist. There is no more evidence for God than there is for Santa Claus.
common sense isn't an established truth, it's what people use to cope with the world, and they can be right or wrong, common sense can also be used to assert the existence of God.

I'm the one who doesn't listen? I know what a-theism literally mean, however the TERM/CONCEPT/DEFINITION is more broad than that, don't start arguing using semantics please, anti-semitic literally means against semitic people, that means you are against Arabs, Jews among other races, but is that what the term really means?
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