[KolyaLegend]

Originally Posted by Echoes

No, it's not. And there's evidence of it.

What evidence?

[Echoes]

Descartes' rationality is crap because it can only be based on axioms. But axioms are just belief. Everything in life is just belief by the way.

French author Marcel Pagnol said something I find perfectly true and which I would translate like this: "such is the weakness of Reason. It's most often useful for justifying our beliefs." (I would even say, always)

[GlennMirnyi]

Originally Posted by Echoes

No, it's not. And there's evidence of it.

Show me, monsieur.

Originally Posted by Har-Tru

This.

Also, far too many people confuse the notions of "God", "religion" and "church".

Go away, you sanctimonious church-goer.

Originally Posted by Echoes

Descartes' rationality is crap because it can only be based on axioms. But axioms are just belief. Everything in life is just belief by the way.

French author Marcel Pagnol said something I find perfectly true and which I would translate like this: "such is the weakness of Reason. It's most often useful for justifying our beliefs." (I would even say, always)

His general theory isn't meant necessarily to be taken as the limiting factor for reason.

That sentence, though, is very true.

[habibko]

it's not like you can prove the non-existence of a God anyway, so Atheism is a blind faith as well, the neutral stance is agnosticism, basically saying: "I don't know".

[GlennMirnyi]

Bullshit.

You don't have to prove the non-existence of something.

As long as something's existence isn't proven, it doesn't exist.

Just like your brain. As you've never given this forum any proof that you actually have one, it's pretty clear you don't have it.

[habibko]

Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi

Bullshit.

You don't have to prove the non-existence of something.

As long as something's existence isn't proven, it doesn't exist.

Just like your brain. As you've never given this forum any proof that you actually have one, it's pretty clear you don't have it.

wow and I took you for a smart guy As long as something's existence isn't proven, it doesn't exist?!?!?!?!

the existence of everything you know about space or Earth or each field of science couldn't be proven for thousands of years, does that mean it didn't exist before?

just because you can't understand, prove or comprehend something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist >__>

[JolánGagó]

Originally Posted by habibko

just because you can't understand, prove or comprehend something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist >__>

this.

agnosticism is the only truly rational, scientific point of view. all the rest is bullshit and/or self-convenient attempts to cope with the Unknown.

[habibko]

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

this.

agnosticism is the only truly rational, scientific point of view. all the rest is bullshit and/or self-convenient attempts to cope with the Unknown.

exactly, otherwise both theism and atheism are blind faiths.

[Clydey]

Originally Posted by habibko

it's not like you can prove the non-existence of a God anyway, so Atheism is a blind faith as well, the neutral stance is agnosticism, basically saying: "I don't know".

No, it's not. It's the default position. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist. You cannot disprove that fairies or unicorns exist either. Is it blind faith if you don't believe in the Easter Bunny, too?

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity. No more, no less. It is the only logical position. Belief in a higher power requires faith because there's no evidence to support the belief.

[habibko]

Originally Posted by Clydey

No, it's not. It's the default position. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist. You cannot disprove that fairies or unicorns exist either. Is it blind faith if you don't believe in the Easter Bunny, too?

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity. No more, no less. It is the only logical position. Belief in a higher power requires faith because there's no evidence to support the belief.

no it is not the logical position, the existence of the world and life itself brings too many questions that can't be definitely answered by atheism, the logical position as Jolan said is: we don't know enough or we don't know for sure.

afterwards people choose to believe in God or don't and each position has it's own rationality and reasons, but there is no right or wrong in this, and you know that.

[Clydey]

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

this.

agnosticism is the only truly rational, scientific point of view. all the rest is bullshit and/or self-convenient attempts to cope with the Unknown.

That is a common mistake. Many people think that atheism is an assertion that there is no God. It isn't. No one can say for certain that there is no God. Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

Agnosticism is a superfluous term. Technically speaking, we are all agnostics. We don't know anything for sure. Are you an agnostic when it comes to the Easter Bunny? Technically you are. We all are. However, it's an impractical position. If someone asks you whether Santa Claus exists, you're going not going to shrug your shoulders and say, "I don't know". You'll say "No". Or if you're hyper-rational, like I am, you'll say, "There's a 99.9999% chance that he doesn't he exist".

[GlennMirnyi]

Originally Posted by habibko

wow and I took you for a smart guy As long as something's existence isn't proven, it doesn't exist?!?!?!?!

the existence of everything you know about space or Earth or each field of science couldn't be proven for thousands of years, does that mean it didn't exist before?

just because you can't understand, prove or comprehend something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist >__>

You cannot prove that something doesn't exist. If you can't prove that something exists, it doesn't exist. Men had limited means of comprehending the universe, therefore it couldn't prove the existence of some things. For those men, they didn't exist. The humanity has expanded its ability to comprehend the universe and can prove NOW that those things exist.

You can't judge the past on knowledge of the present. It's like saying the European sailors in the XV century were stupid because they didn't use steam powered ships. They didn't even know that such a thing as steam power existed - therefore to them, it didn't exist.

Originally Posted by JolánGagó

this.

agnosticism is the only truly rational, scientific point of view. all the rest is bullshit and/or self-convenient attempts to cope with the Unknown.

Yeah, definitely.



Very rational. Now explain us scientifically why there must be a God. Good luck.

[Clydey]

Originally Posted by habibko

no it is not the logical position, the existence of the world and life itself brings too many questions that can't be definitely answered by atheism, the logical position as Jolan said is: we don't know enough or we don't know for sure.

afterwards people choose to believe in God or don't and each position has it's own rationality and reasons, but there is no right or wrong in this, and you know that.

What are you talking about? Atheism isn't a philosophy, nor is it a religion. Think of the word "atypical". It means "not typical". By the same token, "atheist" means "not a theist". It simply means that you don't believe in a God. That is where the definition begins and ends. You're an atheist, too. You just don't realise it. To paraphrase an old saying, "We are all atheists when it comes to 99.999% of the 'Gods' out there. Some of us just go one God further".

Answer this question please. What is the logical position to the question of whether or not Santa Claus exists?

[habibko]

Originally Posted by Clydey

That is a common mistake. Many people think that atheism is an assertion that there is no God. It isn't. No one can say for certain that there is no God. Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

Agnosticism is a superfluous term. Technically speaking, we are all agnostics. We don't know anything for sure. Are you an agnostic when it comes to the Easter Bunny? Technically you are. We all are. However, it's an impractical position. If someone asks you whether Santa Claus exists, you're going not going to shrug your shoulders and say, "I don't know". You'll say "No". Or if you're hyper-rational, like I am, you'll say, "There's a 99.9999% chance that he doesn't he exist".

atheism's definition is more complicated and broad than that, it also includes people that assert that deities or God DO NOT AND CAN'T EXIST, and they will bring you many arguments and use their own rationality to PROVE that God can't exist, have you never met people like this? that is what I was referring to as blind faith.

[GlennMirnyi]

atheism |ˈāθēˌizəm|
noun
the theory or belief that God does not exist.
DERIVATIVES
atheist noun
atheistic |ˌāθēˈistik| adjective
atheistical |-ˈistikəl| adjective
ORIGIN late 16th cent.: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god.’