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View Poll Results: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Yes, I'm a Theist (Believe in holy revelation via a "Holy Book") 57 19.52%
Yes, I'm a Deist (Believe in God based upon the existence of the Universe and evolved life) 40 13.70%
Perhaps, I'm Agnostic (As there is conflicting, or a lack of, evidence you just don't know) 73 25.00%
No, I'm an Atheist (science will eventually understand the origins of the Big Bang/Universe) 122 41.78%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-18-2007, 10:13 AM   #1
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Default Do You Believe In A "God"?

Basically, up until recently, I considered myself "Agnostic" meaning that there was no actual evidence of the existence of a 'God' but I was open minded to the possibility of such a thing including the existence of spirits and an afterlife.

Recently, I read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and have since decided to take the "De-Facto Atheist" approach to life which means that although technically you cannot disprove the existence of a God its existence seems quite unlikely as I think however the Universe began it seems silly to say "a God was behind the Big Bang" because where then did this God, or the "Gods", come from? And if someone were to say that 'God' is eternal then why not believe that the materials allowing for the Big Bang were self contained and that Time and Space didn't need, or couldn't, exist before the Big Bang?

I find the notion that before the "Big Bang" there was the "Big Thought" to be quite a stretch.

I stopped believing in spirits or an 'afterlife' because I started thinking how ridiculous the idea was that a cockroach, ant, tape worm or dung beatle all have 'spirits' and an 'afterlife' (why is that neccesary?) and that the only reason we believe (homo sapiens) in such a concept is because ever since homo sapiens developed culture, language and ultimately society and civilisation we have yearned to understand the world around us and out of, in my opinion, arrogance and egotisim we somehow believe that our lives, our experiences and our consciousness are so important they we can never 'completely die' and that we must keep living on in some form or another. I think that view is bourne out of both the fear of death and the egotistical perspective that our existence is far too 'important' to ever have an ending.

And why does it seem to sound so rational when someone says they believe in one God (monotheism) yet when someone were to believe in multiple Gods (Polytheism), like the Ancient Egyptians or Romans, we automatically see how irrational that is and that their concept of the 'Gods' was obviously used to explain the world around them.

The "God of the Gaps" (gaps in our knowledge of origin or explanation of the universe) is basically the reason why the monotheistic God continues to exist and the main reason it continues to thrive is because we don't yet know where the laws of physics and gravity came from and how the Big Bang was triggered allowing for the formation of the Universe.

So, until Physicists can, without doubt, explain these final questions humanity has do we continue to defer to a God or the Gods to explain the Universe and our existence or should we instead admit that there are still some important issues we just don't know the answer to yet?

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Old 11-18-2007, 10:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

If you have felt the love of God, there is no need for Science.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by VolandriFan View Post
If you have felt the love of God, there is no need for Science.
What exactly does that statement even mean?

How can you feel the 'love' of something who's existence is unknown and questionable.

If you associate 'love' with the affection you place upon your religious upbringing, what your family tells you to believe and the church you attend then that might explain your statement otherwise I don't understand that statement.

The ideal of the monotheistic God arose first in Ancient Egypt but the current monotheistic God, which has become very successful within most world cultures, arose via the Abrahamic religions (Judiesm, Christianity and Islam) and had it not been for those "holy texts" or oral traditions then we could still be today believing in the existence of multiple Gods (ie: Osiris, Zeus, Poseiden, etc.) who's existence is as equally credible or outlandish as the monotheistic God of the current three dominant religions.

Many people believe in a God or Gods because they find it difficult to comprehend how the Universe came to be but I find it significantly harder to explain how a supernatural God or Gods came into existence in the first place who then decided to have the "Big thought" which created the Universe.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:13 AM   #4
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

I am not religious and stuff (though maybe I should be, regarding my 'experiences near death ') but I know that in the Bible it's written that Jesus said to Thomas, that he saw and believed, while the blessed one are those who didn't see and believed.

Of course Jaffas you can keep on going into theoretical blurbings, but putting in doubt sense of someone's faith when she/he believes, this is low.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
I am not religious and stuff (though maybe I should be, regarding my 'experiences near death ') but I know that in the Bible it's written that Jesus said to Thomas, that he saw and believed, while the blessed one are those who didn't see and believed.

Of course Jaffas you can keep on going into theoretical blurbings, but putting in doubt sense of someone's faith when she/he believes, this is low.
I don't understand why religion is reserved so much "respect"?

Why is it we can debate political or social differences but not the issue of religion? I'm just trying to understand how someone can committ themselves to religion when it is obviously the construct of culture, the writings of human beings thus the representation of the time and region in which it was written (Ie: Islam arose from a male dominated clan society in the 8th century).

We should all be yearning to find out the truth about the world around us and religion is often a barrier in seeking that truth.

However, everyone is entitled to believe what they want although shouldn't this be an area up for discussion? When parents indoctrinate their children with their own religion they will probably never be able to look objectively at it and at other issues around them and if people are told to 'respect' their point of view when they havn't had the chance to weigh up the evidence and be critical on their own accord then I think its a shame.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Jaffas85 View Post
I don't understand why religion is reserved so much "respect"?

Why is it we can debate political or social differences but not the issue of religion? I'm just trying to understand how someone can committ themselves to religion when it is obviously the construct of culture, the writings of human beings thus the representation of the time and region in which it was written (Ie: Islam arose from a male dominated clan society in the 8th century).

We should all be yearning to find out the truth about the world around us and religion is often a barrier in seeking that truth.

However, everyone is entitled to believe what they want although shouldn't this be an area up for discussion? When parents indoctrinate their children with their own religion they will probably never be able to look objectively at it and at other issues around them and if people are told to 'respect' their point of view when they havn't had the chance to weigh up the evidence and be critical on their own accord then I think its a shame.
Firstly, religion lies on the basis of faith. If you can't understand how one person might feel so strongly about their beliefs, then I truly do feel sorry for you. Do you really believe that everything on this earth was created by accident? That everything evolved uniquely from one single cell? Why did humans evolve to engage in intercourse, when there are other effective ways of reproduction followed by other species? Do you really believe that every biblical prophecy was exercised by coincidence, and that each author miraculously created a story that was completely intertwinable with the other (sometimes with no knowledge whatsoever of the other) by accident? How was Mount Sainie discovered in its exact biblical form, detailed landmarks, scorched peak and all?

You choose what you want to believe, but I sure know my own truth.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffas85 View Post
I don't understand why religion is reserved so much "respect"?

Why is it we can debate political or social differences but not the issue of religion? I'm just trying to understand how someone can committ themselves to religion when it is obviously the construct of culture, the writings of human beings thus the representation of the time and region in which it was written (Ie: Islam arose from a male dominated clan society in the 8th century).

We should all be yearning to find out the truth about the world around us and religion is often a barrier in seeking that truth.

However, everyone is entitled to believe what they want although shouldn't this be an area up for discussion? When parents indoctrinate their children with their own religion they will probably never be able to look objectively at it and at other issues around them and if people are told to 'respect' their point of view when they havn't had the chance to weigh up the evidence and be critical on their own accord then I think its a shame.
Religions are for people and not for scientists out of basis. Of course there is nothing wrong in discussing it and I haven't said anything different, but letting people believe in what they want is equally important, instead of "indoctrinating" (using your nomenclature) them with seeking for something, they don't really want and need to seek.

Religion for millions of people is the only thing giving them energy for a further life, and taking it away from them by asking questions and putting in doubt, this is not what should be done.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Of course there is no God. If a god created the universe then he would have to be able to do anything. So why would someone allow all the suffering and evil in the world when God could stop it right now? My conclusion is that anyone who believes in God believes that the universe is run by a sadistic monster.

But I suppose a scientific approach is better. Simply put, there is not a scrap of evidence for God. He is entirely the figment of ancient human imaginations. It is amusing to watch believers retreat further and further into statements like ''you must have faith'' as the acceleration of scientific knowledge knocks down their beliefs.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VolandriFan View Post
Firstly, religion lies on the basis of faith. If you can't understand how one person might feel so strongly about their beliefs, then I truly do feel sorry for you. Do you really believe that everything on this earth was created by accident? That everything evolved uniquely from one single cell? Why did humans evolve to engage in intercourse, when there are other effective ways of reproduction followed by other species? Do you really believe that every biblical prophecy was exercised by coincidence, and that each author miraculously created a story that was completely intertwinable with the other (sometimes with no knowledge whatsoever of the other) by accident? How was Mount Cyanide discovered in its exact biblical form, detailed landmarks, scorched peak and all?

You choose what you want to believe, but I sure know my own truth.

Do you believe that the many people around the world who adhere to Islam and Judaism and their subsequent 'holy books' the Torah and the Koran are simply misguided or flat out wrong because they were unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world and indoctrinated by a family who were also misguided?

Also, Humans reproduce by intercourse because they are social mammals and it is easier for two people to produce a child who can then be maintained by at least two people and sometimes larger family units. Most other 'Great Apes' are social and have close knit family networks like humans as it has served in the benefit of the longevity of the species.

And no I don't believe that the authors of the Bible, the Koran or the original 'Holy Book' the Torah were inspired by a monotheistic God. I believe they were inspired by people within their social landscape.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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That everything evolved uniquely from one single cell? Why did humans evolve to engage in intercourse, when there are other effective ways of reproduction followed by other species?
Anyone who has studied paleontology is fully aware of how species evolve over time. It is the religious fanatics who are forced to make up crazy theories because they know that modern dating techniques and fossil evidence show without a doubt that life has been evolving over billions of years. It is also 100% clear that most species existed over a fixed time and no matter how many rocks you break open, you will never find them in rocks that are not of the age range during which they flourished. Believers in the bible just have to stick their heads in the sand when confronted with this.

The second sentence of your quote above is an example of the silliness of the arguments of believers. Why not just say ''Why did God make humans to engage in intercourse, when there are other effective ways of reproduction followed by other species?'' You see, believers are forced into asking silly questions like that. Questions that could be just as easily be asked the other way around by atheists. But an atheist would never think of asking such silly questions in an effort to support his belief. He has science on his side.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
Religion for millions of people is the only thing giving them energy for a further life, and taking it away from them by asking questions and putting in doubt, this is not what should be done.
This is a wonderful example of how believers have their heads stuck in the sand and are forced to run away from the truth of science. Anyone who says the only way to protect his belief is by not permitting questions is saying that................ Well, there is no need for me to say any more. You have said more clearly than I could that deep down you know your belief is based on nothing.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Jaffas85 View Post
Do you believe that the many people around the world who adhere to Islam and Judaism and their subsequent 'holy books' the Torah and the Koran are simply misguided or flat out wrong because they were unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world and indoctrinated by a family who were also misguided?
99.99% of believers simply believe in the religion they were born into. But try and get them to admit that their belief is simply an accident of birth and nothing to do with their own power of reason they will deny it.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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This is a wonderful example of how believers have their heads stuck in the sand and are forced to run away from the truth of science. Anyone who says the only way to protect his belief is by not permitting questions is saying that................ Well, there is no need for me to say any more. You have said more clearly than I could that deep down you know your belief is based on nothing.
I didn't say I believe in anything, and especially I stand againt the religious extremisms of any kind, though I can feel the empathy for people I know and who suck at life, and religion is their only motivation to go through, at the same point they aren't educated enough to ask any questions. Sometimes, a pure belief is what you need to be happy, I don't see what is so wrong in that. You surely know the saying that the wiser a person is, the more aware of the problems and unhappier he is.

I don't say beliefs are based on SOMETHING, I only say I don't support coming up to people who really don't want it, just to tell them: "All you believe in is bullshit because there are no proofs for it, you should stop believing and start wondering about the trick of life". Go, say that to a Mexican peasant or a Hindi parias.

They would be probably as annoyed as I am annoyed any time Jehovah Witnesses try to talk to me at Wrocław railway station.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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The second sentence of your quote above is an example of the silliness of the arguments of believers. Why not just say ''Why did God make humans to engage in intercourse, when there are other effective ways of reproduction followed by other species?''
The answer to that question would be, God wanted to make a distinction between animal and man, who he had created in his own image. He wanted us to share a mutual bond of love and desire and above all, a spiritual union, that could be experienced by any other species, not even the ape who we, according to evolutionists, evolved from. In the animal kingdom, the female instinctively submits to her male counterpart as she enters a period of fertility.

1 Corinthians 6:15-20
"Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."


Quite clearly, human sexual relations were intended for love, not solely procreation as with every other species.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

you are a scary person , quoting the bible , like a Taliban would quote the kuran to justify beheadings and stonings
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