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Old 09-25-2007, 09:55 AM   #46
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by Jim Jones View Post
If one did not know who Ahmadinejad was and if the translator was not heard one could think the guy was a stand-up comedian. When he was talking about no gays in Iran, you heard people laugh.

Maybe Ahmadenijad has a future career as stand-up comic. The Iranian Seinfeld he must be.

Someone should put the extracts of the clip of him on youtube with the Seinfeld theme when people laugh as he is talking.
Weird, usually it's Bush we laugh at with his dumb and lying comments. I don't think Ahmadenijad is as dumb as Bush in his speeches.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by World Beater View Post
America isn't a country that is the model for gay rights, and to the Arabs/persians, america = western world.

i dont believe there any countries out there that are the model but if any country does come close it is the netherlands.
I replied to your post because I just knew that you would throw out the Netherlands, even though, in your very own words, you had excluded America and ''other western countries'' from the possibilities.
Now it seems you are trying to cover up your mistake by claiming that in saying ''America and other western countries'' you were really just saying ''America,'' because Muslims understand the meaning of the ''western world'' to be the USA. Which, by the way, is nonsense anyway. Muslims seem to know what constitutes the western world much more clearer than you.
This flip-flopping is not a good way to try and convince someone.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:29 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by mangoes View Post




Firstly, I didn't order you to do anything. I said "Chill Out". I didn't say Shut the hell up or Stop writing such BS. It was a lighthearted response to you. Secondly, I didn't get the impression from your post that you were making a joke. I guess I missed your humor. Sorry. Nevertheless, I wouldn't find it funny to laugh at the thought of someone being stoned to death Just not my cup of tea.

Every student listening to that speech considers Ahmadinejad to have more than a couple screws loose. What would getting angry at him have accomplished. Homosexuality is considered a serious sin in the Arab countries. So, most homosexual men and women there either hide or not even acknowledge their true selves. It's not a simple issue. But, Ahmadinejad answer was rather naive .......and I wouldn't be surprised if he truly believed his answer.........afterall, that's the man who said there was a glow around him as he addressed the UN a couple years ago.

I personally get angry with politicans in the US that try to make Homosexuality an issue. An issue more important than homelessness, war, health care, etc.
So let me get this straight. Getting angry at Ahmadinejad for executing homosexuals and then denying they exist would accomplish nothing in your opinion? But getting angry at US politicians that want to just discuss gay rights is a big thing with you? WOW, way to go!

And sorry, I thought ''Chill Out'' meant ''stop''. I guess I am not up to par on outdated slang. So what does it mean?
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Strange that you think you can order me to stop saying what you do not want to hear.

What I wanted the students to do was show outrage when the leader of a country that publicly hangs people for being homosexual makes a joke about it. That is about as low as a human being can go - and he got giggles. Sickening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The comment about letting him go to ground zero was a joke. Your response should have been to just giggle at picturing him being stoned to death by the public.
The laughter sounded derisive to me. Laughter stemming from the sheer absurdity of what he had said. I'm not sure they were laughing "with" him. But who knows, maybe some people were...
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:18 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by MisterQ View Post
The laughter sounded derisive to me. Laughter stemming from the sheer absurdity of what he had said. I'm not sure they were laughing "with" him. But who knows, maybe some people were...
I would like to think so too, but having listened over and over to the tape, it does seem to me that the initial laughter came from those that were there hoping to hear him come up with a few good lines. Of course they were probably the same students that next week will be off somewhere protesting the Bush administration's predjudice against gays.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:47 PM   #51
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

Now I'm confused. The UN speech of the Iranian Little Big Man sounded to me like he and the US religious right believe in exactly the same things, yet they are enemies. Maybe they just do not see how close they are in their extremism. If we would just give our lives over to God all will be well. I don't think so!

However one good thing about the speech. It seems that five minutes into the talk, Chavez called in to say that he would not be showing up to defend his UN Arse Clown title tomorrow. It only took that amount of time to know that no matter how ridiculous he could be, the title was lost.

Disappointing though that the US delegation did not turn out in full for the speech. I would have preferred to see them stare the little religious fanatic down.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:50 PM   #52
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by J'torian View Post
Just because homosexuals in the US don't enjoy the equal protections they deserve under US law doesn't mean that it's a cheap shot for a US citizen to raise objection to the execution of homosexuals in another nation. One doesn't have to live in a model country before one can rightfully criticize another nation for its heinous actions.


."
Ok. its hypocrisy...whatever.

i am not going to argue about degrees of protection because not all countries agree to the same standard of punishment for "indecency". Some countries think they are punishable by prison, death etc. Other countries don't punish but still do not recognize them and do not give tax breaks etc. Countries like singapore have long held homosexuals acts as punishable by law. So are we going to start criticizing every country that doesn't hold the same standards as our own? Fact is both countries do not think homosexuals deserve equal rights. And so i think its a cheap shot, because the US itself doesnt agree to the full equality. Its like a college tennis player telling a high school player "he sucks". Sure it may be true, but the college player isn't so good himself compared to the ATP player.

Much of the argument stems from ideology. Different countries have different philosophies. And for sure I prefer some to others, which is why if you read the context of my post, I clearly referred to ahmadinejad as "crazy". But at the same time i realize we dont recognize full rights. So i don't see why there should be huge objection to my comments.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:55 PM   #53
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I replied to your post because I just knew that you would throw out the Netherlands, even though, in your very own words, you had excluded America and ''other western countries'' from the possibilities.
Now it seems you are trying to cover up your mistake by claiming that in saying ''America and other western countries'' you were really just saying ''America,'' because Muslims understand the meaning of the ''western world'' to be the USA. Which, by the way, is nonsense anyway. Muslims seem to know what constitutes the western world much more clearer than you.
This flip-flopping is not a good way to try and convince someone.
No. The flip flopping of USA Vs. Western world happens quite frequently in the muslim world. And yes i have lived in countries where there are large number of muslims. This is my experience and it has nothing to do with "correctness". So your assumptions are not founded. If your experience tells you differently, fine. But that doesn't disqualify my own. So here's a small tip for you. usually when a poster starts to become patronizing in a discussion, it usually means he/she has run out of arguments and is unnecessarily getting frustrated

also i dont see how the netherlands is included in my comments. I said "other western countries".

Other doesn't include all western countries.
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Old 09-26-2007, 04:36 AM   #54
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
So let me get this straight. Getting angry at Ahmadinejad for executing homosexuals and then denying they exist would accomplish nothing in your opinion? But getting angry at US politicians that want to just discuss gay rights is a big thing with you? WOW, way to go!

And sorry, I thought ''Chill Out'' meant ''stop''. I guess I am not up to par on outdated slang. So what does it mean?
Obviously you are enjoying twisting my words. What would getting angry have accomplished?? Students laughed because what he said was stupid..... They laughed at his stupidity. Furthermore, I'm not getting angry at US Politicians "just discussing" gay rights. I'm annoyed that politicians spend more time running their mouths about gay issues versus doing things such as reforming the Foster care system. If you think bickering over gay issues is more important than preventing the abuse so many children are suffering in the Foster care system...... well....... I'd rather the politicians spend time trying to reform the system. So, when I consider such social issues in need of attention, I get annoyed listening to politicans instead worrying about gay marriage. I personally don't have any issue with gay marriage. I don't consider it a deed that's "hurting" anyone. I think there are many more important social issues in America. Issues that are causing real pain to our citizens.

Lastly, since I don't keep up with the slang presently used, I think based on my other post, you should have grasped my meaning. There was no hostility meant in my statement. But you refuse to see this. I feel like you are trying to pick a fight, so on that note, I will cease replying to your posts.
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Old 09-26-2007, 04:41 AM   #55
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

The really wierd thing about Iran is that they persecute homosexuals but allow surgical sex changes. There is a surprisingly large number of men who have had sex changes and it's accepted. Really wierd....one would think that in Islam's moral system a surgical sex change is a bigger transgression against nature than homosexuality.
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:57 AM   #56
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by mangoes View Post
Furthermore, I'm not getting angry at US Politicians "just discussing" gay rights. I'm annoyed that politicians spend more time running their mouths about gay issues versus doing things such as reforming the Foster care system. If you think bickering over gay issues is more important than preventing the abuse so many children are suffering in the Foster care system...... well.......
How did my views on the reform of the Foster care system get involved in this?

If getting angry at Ahmadinejad for executing innocent people would accomplish nothing, then I still don't understand why you get angry at US politicians for discussing gay issues. Surely you must realize your anger will also accomplish nothing.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:51 PM   #57
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Originally Posted by World Beater View Post
i dont believe there any countries out there that are the model but if any country does come close it is the netherlands.
Oh, there are a few, not just The Netherlands.
Belgium for instance (gay people can legally marry and adopt children here), Spain and a couple of others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Belgium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage


About those students giggling at the statement that there are no homosexuals in Iran. The persecution of gay people in that country is no joke at all, that's true.
But I'm guessing that those students weren't giggling at the treatment of gay people there but rather at the politician seriously claiming that there are no gay people in an entire country. Yeah, right...who does he think he's kidding.
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Old 09-26-2007, 02:20 PM   #58
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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How did my views on the reform of the Foster care system get involved in this?

If getting angry at Ahmadinejad for executing innocent people would accomplish nothing, then I still don't understand why you get angry at US politicians for discussing gay issues. Surely you must realize your anger will also accomplish nothing.
In terms of my American issues, I don't sit back and just be angry. I try to involve myself in organizations trying to cause some change to our social problems...... So my anger does accomplish something. It pushes me to get involved and try to make a tiny difference.

There's nothing I, personally, can do about Iran other than pray for the people in the country. Furthermore, Ahmadinejad is just a figurehead and doesn't carry the powers of a dictator. The beliefs spun from Islam dictate the laws by which Iran is governed. But, that's getting off subject.

If I thought there was some way I could seriously help try to change a situation in a country, I'd start with Darfur. But as more time passes, and no one seems to be able to bring a stop to the crisis there, it feels like a lost cause.

The students were laughing at Ahmadinejad's stupidity. Students also booed his comments.
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Old 09-26-2007, 02:58 PM   #59
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

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Personally I don't think he should be even allowed in the country. He's nothing more than a terrorist.
I disagree with this...completely. He was primarily there to speak at the UN where he has every right as a world leader to be present at.

I often find it utter hypocrisy when Bush/Blair or other leaders who scoff at multilateralism speak at the UN...but I would never say that they should not.

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Behaviour of american politicians shows how simple and primitive people are. I don't understand. This man ( Iranian president ) is the president of Iran. And if he wants to come and lie flowers in so called ground zero zone to honour the memory of victims, why is it forbidden to him. And why is he not treated as normal head of another country?
Their eternal, boozed Bush goes to every country of this world. He is seen unwelcome everywhere, but he is treated politely by other politicians, because the political culture demands it. It sees that a new mark of american politicians appears: boorishness. Till now genocide and breake of international law was appeared.


It doesn't matter if people were celebrating in Iran when 9/11 happened. Many people in many places have celebrated many things they should not have - but when their leaders come to make a symbolic gesture of respect, it should be encouraged. It's the only way we can get passed prejudice and hatred.

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Originally Posted by tennisgal_001 View Post
I think it's a good move that Ahmedinajad is in the US even if, in my opinion, he's a complete lunatic. The speech at Columbia U cerainly made things more interesting, and just to note that it was really disappointing that Columbia received such a negative reaction to its invitation.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Federer View Post
The US is a secular nation,.


yeah in theory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mangoes View Post
In terms of my American issues, I don't sit back and just be angry. I try to involve myself in organizations trying to cause some change to our social problems...... So my anger does accomplish something. It pushes me to get involved and try to make a tiny difference.

There's nothing I, personally, can do about Iran other than pray for the people in the country. Furthermore, Ahmadinejad is just a figurehead and doesn't carry the powers of a dictator. The beliefs spun from Islam dictate the laws by which Iran is governed. But, that's getting off subject.
You might be surprised by how many people in the country are quite happy with their president...and live very comfortable lives. Of course these are mostly the Persian people. The minority races will probably have a different view of things...but such is the plight of minorities in most countries.

I'm not saying this is ideal or the way it should be, or that we should accept it as inevitable...just making a comment that Iran isn't as terrible a place to live in as many people seem to think it is.
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Old 09-26-2007, 03:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: Ahmadinejad in US

In my opinion pres. Ahmadinejad is very intelligent politician. His speech was very convincing. And he wants to defend independece of his country and essures normal economical development for own state. It seems that it is very good Iranian politician. He can defend his point of view. Iran is such normal state as every other country in this world for instance Germany, France, China, Russia. Besides it is no regime in Iran and this president was elected freely by Iranian people. And protesting persons were a few old american - iranians grandmas with red scarf ( maybe they remember time before the I world ) and some agressive representatives of american- israelis - so called concretes.
Some american policians and some other actuel French politicians, who truly said has guilty conscience and blood of many people on their hands ban it, because they measure other people of own measure and they think that all people in the world would make the same thing, what they would do. French president at the beginning of his term of office said that he would use nuclear weapon.Besides his french unrivalled, nosy predecessor made nuclear probe againts will of UN and own society. It seems that new french, nosy president will replace our Twins of disaster. It will be the next laughing stock for the press. It is very good. We will be not the worst.
americans nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the past. It is historical fact too.
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