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Old 10-10-2014, 07:37 PM   #1
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Default The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

A matter of self-defense, a defensive attack, call it what you will. Either way, it was absolutely not a despicable attack on the innocent United States. During the 1940 election Roosevelt promised that no American soldier would fight in a foreign war, after the American public was very outspoken against going into war. However, that didn't keep him from sending fifty destroyers to Britain and provoking the Japanese by imposing embargoes on the raw materials they needed for their war effort, in order to try and push them out of China. This effectively caused them to become so desperate that further war aggression became an absolute necessity, leading to a pact with Nazi-Germany and Italy. They needed the oil from the Dutch East Indies and Pearl Harbor was a danger to those interests.

Roosevelt was plotting to get into the war long before Pearl Harbor, the man even sent a hundred fighter planes to Russia in 1941 along with a cool 11 billion dollars of aid, who had been at it with Japan since 1932. The Brits received a further eight billion. At this point the United States are obviously heavily invested in the war, that money won't come back if the Brits and Russians lose. He even said to Churchill that he was looking for an incident to happen so he had an incentive. Japan's attack gave him the perfect opportunity to finally gain the people's support and go to war.
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Old 10-10-2014, 07:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

And, suddenly, CK feels the need to prove his Uni-level studies of History aren't useless. And he decides to do so, make a point on MTF.

Well done, babe, very well done!
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Old 10-10-2014, 07:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

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And, suddenly, CK feels the need to prove his Uni-level studies of History aren't useless. And he decides to do so, make a point on MTF.

Well done, babe, very well done!
If only, had I studied the subject for a University course I would've satisfied myself by unleashing a thesis that would actually receive a grade.

I'm watching Oliver Stone's documentary series 'The Untold History of the United States' and it got me thinking.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression



Would highly suggest this.

U.S. has caused a lot of Wars and Unpleasant things. Often times these realities are forgotten and textbook makers focus on the "M'erican Pride". In fact the Colorado School Board is trying to restructure history courses to ensure that history does not create "Anti-American Rebels and Deviants".

Thousands of students have been protesting and have basically boycotted school because of this attempted restructure.

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ARVADA, Colo. (AP) — Hundreds of students walked out of classrooms around suburban Denver on Tuesday in protest over a conservative-led school board proposal to focus history education on topics that promote citizenship, patriotism and respect for authority, in a show of civil disobedience that the new standards would aim to downplay.

The youth protest involving six high schools in the state's second-largest school district follows a sick-out from teachers that shut down two high schools in the politically and economically diverse area that has become a key political battleground.

Student participants said their demonstration was organized by word of mouth and social media. Many waved American flags and carried signs, including messages that read "There is nothing more patriotic than protest."

"I don't think my education should be censored. We should be able to know what happened in our past," said Tori Leu, a 17-year-old student who protested at Ralston Valley High School in Arvada.

The school board proposal that triggered the walkouts in Jefferson County calls for instructional materials that present positive aspects of the nation and its heritage. It would establish a committee to regularly review texts and course plans, starting with Advanced Placement history, to make sure materials "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights" and don't "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

The proposal from Julie Williams, part of the board's conservative majority, has not been voted on and was put on hold last week. She didn't return a call from The Associated Press seeking comment Tuesday, but previously told Chalkbeat Colorado, a school news website, that she recognizes there are negative events that are part of U.S. history that need to be taught.

"There are things we may not be proud of as Americans," she said. "But we shouldn't be encouraging our kids to think that America is a bad place."

A student demonstrator, Tyrone G. Parks, a senior at Arvada High School, said Tuesday that the nation's foundation was built on civil protests, "and everything that we've done is what allowed us to be at this point today. And if you take that from us, you take away everything that America was built off of."

The proposal comes from an elected board with three conservative members who took office in November. The other two board members were elected in 2011 and oppose the new plan, which was drafted in response to a national framework for teaching history that supporters say encourages discussion and critical thinking. Detractors, however, say it puts an outsize emphasis on the nation's problems.

Tension over high school education has cropped up recently in Texas, where conservative school board officials are facing criticism over new textbooks. Meanwhile, in South Carolina, conservatives have called on an education oversight committee to ask the College Board, which oversees Advanced Placement courses, to rewrite their framework to make sure there is no ideological bias.

The College Board says the outline provides a balanced view of American history, and officials plan to clarify instructions to teachers to make that clear by the end of the month.

Participating students were not punished, school district spokeswoman Lynn Setzer said. They will receive unexcused absences unless their parents call to relay permission for missed classes, Setzer said.

Superintendent Dan McMinimee has met with some of the students and renewed his offer to continue discussions on the issue. "I respect the right of our students to express their opinions in a peaceful manner," he said. "I do, however, prefer that our students stay in class."
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

Oliver Stone?

Well, that explains everything.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

Well, duh
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

Well, the Axis were the good guys in the Second World War, so yes. Germany's invasion of Poland was also justified. I'm thoroughly ashamed of my country for teaming up with the disgusting evil #1 villains of the 20th century, Stalin and his Red Army of rapists.

NB: we can probably concur right now that nboody in this thread will ever persuade anyone to change their minds on the subject, so I cba with boring circular arguments fuelled by indignance.
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post


Would highly suggest this.

U.S. has caused a lot of Wars and Unpleasant things. Often times these realities are forgotten and textbook makers focus on the "M'erican Pride". In fact the Colorado School Board is trying to restructure history courses to ensure that history does not create "Anti-American Rebels and Deviants".

Thousands of students have been protesting and have basically boycotted school because of this attempted restructure.
Kowchi, I thought you were better than this Marxist propaganda?
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

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Originally Posted by Chris Kuerten View Post
A matter of self-defense, a defensive attack, call it what you will. Either way, it was absolutely not a despicable attack on the innocent United States. During the 1940 election Roosevelt promised that no American soldier would fight in a foreign war, after the American public was very outspoken against going into war. However, that didn't keep him from sending fifty destroyers to Britain and provoking the Japanese by imposing embargoes on the raw materials they needed for their war effort, in order to try and push them out of China. This effectively caused them to become so desperate that further war aggression became an absolute necessity, leading to a pact with Nazi-Germany and Italy. They needed the oil from the Dutch East Indies and Pearl Harbor was a danger to those interests.

Roosevelt was plotting to get into the war long before Pearl Harbor, the man even sent a hundred fighter planes to Russia in 1941 along with a cool 11 billion dollars of aid, who had been at it with Japan since 1932. The Brits received a further eight billion. At this point the United States are obviously heavily invested in the war, that money won't come back if the Brits and Russians lose. He even said to Churchill that he was looking for an incident to happen so he had an incentive. Japan's attack gave him the perfect opportunity to finally gain the people's support and go to war.
Just because there is a reason doesn't mean that it is morally justified. Every country, ever, all time has had its reasons for going to war. Needing raw materials to continue an aggressive war effort, and then launching a dirty sneak attack without a declaration of war? Yeah naw, that ain't gonna cut it.

But I'm glad to see you're taking your first college course in history! Gotta love those first doses of anti-Western propaganda.

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Old 10-10-2014, 10:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

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Originally Posted by Moonball Pusher View Post
Just because there is a reason doesn't mean that it is morally justified. Every country, ever, all time has had its reasons for going to war. Needing raw materials to continue an aggressive war effort, and then launching a dirty sneak attack without a declaration of war? Yeah naw, that ain't gonna cut it.

But I'm glad to see you're taking your first college course in history! Gotta love those first doses of anti-Western propaganda.
Is actively backing certain parties in a war you're pretending not to fight morally justified? You seem to think that I am attacking the United States, which isn't the case, this isn't an anti-Western point of view. I'm merely arguing that it isn't as simple as the standard good/evil narrative between the evil Japanese attackers and the innocent American victims we tend to get exposed to. History is written by the victors and it takes a long time before that balances out towards a more realistic point of view in the public sphere, we certainly won't live to see that day.
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

Well, as the saying goes 'attack is the best form of defence'. From the Japanese point of view it was justified, while from the American POV it was an aggression or act of terrorism in today's language. I'm glad Japan didn't have its way though.
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

The Japs forfeited any moral high ground because of their decades long aggression against China. They were naive to think that the Russians and Americans would just shrug off threats to their interests in China (even Germany supported China before WWII). Dumb leaders, rabid nationalism and aggression, and they got smashed as a result. So they were upset because the Yanks supported their enemy, and were denied resources to wage war against Amurica's ally...too bad.
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

^^^ lol at Serbia getting fucked by NATO, I have no sympathy since they were teh aggressors who caused teh first world war, those tards.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:01 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

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^^^ lol at Serbia getting fucked by NATO, I have no sympathy since they were teh aggressors who caused teh first world war, those tards.
@ your educational system.

It's ironic that Serbia was issued two cynical ultimatums in both those cases, which no sovereign country could ever accept (From Austria and at Rambouillet).

But you never knew that because the educational system in Britain is the worst in the whole world. Easy to see why there is no domestic supply of teachers, and why your "lords" are recruiting from the 3rd world in order to brainwash and miseducate you Now go learn how to brush your teach hooligan.

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Old 10-11-2014, 03:35 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a result of American aggression

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Is actively backing certain parties in a war you're pretending not to fight morally justified? You seem to think that I am attacking the United States, which isn't the case, this isn't an anti-Western point of view. I'm merely arguing that it isn't as simple as the standard good/evil narrative between the evil Japanese attackers and the innocent American victims we tend to get exposed to. History is written by the victors and it takes a long time before that balances out towards a more realistic point of view in the public sphere, we certainly won't live to see that day.
m8, Japan was the one attacking everyone in sight. The least they could have done was a proper declaration of war on the US, not the crap that they pulled. What happened to Japanese honor? Oh that's right, they were committing the worst brutal acts of the whole war.

And yet no one cares about the hideous war crimes of Japan and everyone thinks they're these funny little people who make anime and video games, while Germany continues to be the punchline in every debate for their crimes. It's not hard to figure out the agendas at play.

Edit: But to the topic, the Japanese got what they had coming.

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