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Old 05-31-2007, 07:36 PM   #61
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Originally Posted by Mistaflava View Post
I actually don't give a shit if homosexuals want to get married. I don't agree with it but don't care enough to go out of my way and make a big deal about it so arguing with you is useless since it never really crosses my mind or ever bothers me.

However, when it comes to a gay parenting...that's just wrong. Every child needs a mother and a father so why give equal rights to adopting families whether they be two men, two men or a man/woman couple? That's not fair that some adopted kids would be placed in a man/man parenting situation. Like I said, every mother has a purpose for a young child and every father has a purpose for a young child. By allowing this, you now have to start teaching kids in school about same sex relationships and how its the same as anything else when it really is not. Cmon man...dont kid yourself. There is a huge difference between a kid who has a mom and a dad and a kid who has two dads.

Now that brings us back to gay marriage. If you don't allow it, then there is no problem with the adoption process because without the marriage, there is no court hearing for adoption.

Whatever, it's not a huge deal but the more it expands, the more society is going to have problems adjusting and developping to these new standards and this new culture. No matter how much you want or try or hope, the homosexual lifestyle will never be considered okay in society by everyone and it will be next to impossible to give equal rights in all forms of society. That's just how things go.
Agree on the adoption issue. However, it has been proven that there is a genetic link to homosexuality and there are certain traits and chemical similarities that homosexuals go through in childhood so it's not entirely a choice for some people at least.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:38 PM   #62
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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And can we please stop taking this as gay bashing? Seriously though...you guys talk about stereotypes...well most gays have the stereotype of being DRAMA QUEENS and the way some of you babies are reacting, that stereotype looks pretty damn true. Arguing and being against something like that is not gay bashing. I have never and would never treat a gay person any differently.
Yes, I see how this works.

Gay men expressing a forceful opinion: drama queens.
Women expressing a forceful opinion: bossy bitches.
Straight men expressing a forceful opinion: good, strong-willed citizens who know their own mind.
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ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

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Old 05-31-2007, 07:39 PM   #63
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Thats the problem hun, you will never ever be able to educate everyone to be okay with this which is why it becomes problematic in the end. It will never happen.
maybe you're right, but it can't hurt to try
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:39 PM   #64
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Yes, I see how this works.

Gay men expressing a forceful opinion: drama queens.
Women expressing a forceful opinion: bossy bitches.
Straight men expressing a forceful opinion: good, strong-willed citizens who know their own mind.


But like I said you are totally missing the point here. Find me one gay person who doesn't agree with the other gay people in this thread. On the flip side of things, heterosexuals are almost always open to discussion and almost always willing to evaluate both sides of the story...gays are not. It gets really annoying.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:39 PM   #65
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Agree on the adoption issue. However, it has been proven that there is a genetic link to homosexuality and there are certain traits and chemical similarities that homosexuals go through in childhood so it's not entirely a choice for some people at least.
Interesting. This I didn't know. It still seems a rather far-fetched idea to me, but I won't pretend that I know better than the experts on this subject.
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ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

Q. Were you naked at the time in the spa?

ROGER FEDERER: No. It was at the front desk. I didn't walk in naked.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:41 PM   #66
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Originally Posted by Mistaflava View Post
But like I said you are totally missing the point here. Find me one gay person who doesn't agree with the other gay people in this thread. On the flip side of things, heterosexuals are almost always open to discussion and almost always willing to evaluate both sides of the story...gays are not. It gets really annoying.
Erm.... Paul Banks and every other gay person on this thread?

You know that gay people act as individuals with different opinions in the same way we do, that's why people like J'Torian and scoobsuk are good, enjoyable posters and someone like Scotso can be extremely annoying.

Sorry to cause offence Scotso, but I'll never forget the time you told me you were putting me on ignore and urged me to "have as good a life as possible", as though I'd find it hard to exist without you.
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The Wit and Wisdom of the Tennis Journalist, Indian Wells 2004

ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

Q. Were you naked at the time in the spa?

ROGER FEDERER: No. It was at the front desk. I didn't walk in naked.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:42 PM   #67
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Interesting. This I didn't know. It still seems a rather far-fetched idea to me, but I won't pretend that I know better than the experts on this subject.
It's something I remember reading in a psychology textbook a little while back, I'll see if I can dig it up and get the exact context of it later.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:42 PM   #68
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Erm.... Paul Banks and every other gay person on this thread?

You know that gay people act as individuals with different opinions in the same way we do, that's why people like J'Torian and scoobsuk are good, enjoyable posters and someone like Scotso can be extremely annoying.


Anyways the bottom line is that its impossible to have a normal argument about this subject without being labelled a homophobe or a gay hater. Again I say it...that's annoying.

Paul Banks? Is that Paul Hopkins post-Olga???
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:43 PM   #69
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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I agree that homosexuality isn't a free choice, no-one's sexuality is in the end, but I do question how anyone can be born gay, or straight for that matter. Isn't it a matter of nurture rather than nature, the interaction with others and the development of sexual feelings as one grows older? It is something that develops over time and it isn't a clear-cut, cast iron thing, where someone's skin colour is an unalterable fact from birth.
Check out the research of Prof. Dick Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, for instance.
He's addressed this matter in exactly the way you describe.

I worked with this guy as an assistant, some fifteen years ago, and believe me he was as surprised about the outcome of some of his experiments as anyone was - and to make things clear, he's NOT attached to any gay movement or anything.
Even more - he was BASHED for it by a small but significant part of my country's gay movement for claiming 'gayness' was rather determined by biological factors than by anything else, even if he himself acclaims environmental influences to play a role as well.
Some want it to be a purely free choice, but alas - science showed the contrary. It is NOT.

Swaab is a highly respected scientific researcher, not just in my country, but throughout the world. Of course NOT with the Jerry Faldwells of this world and other rabid 'believers' - in any meaning of the word, but that's obvious.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:48 PM   #70
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Great posts in this thread from you. You're right about this. I think Paul has a few issues that he needs to work out, he obviously has a bit of resentment towards "gay culture." This isn't the first time it's popped up.
I don't have any "issues" to work out, just like everything else, I have opinions. You don't like it because, like many gays, you can't stand gays who're critical about your "gay culture". There are some things I have no problem with, there are other things that I don't agree with. Big deallllllllllll.

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Old 05-31-2007, 07:49 PM   #71
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Check out the research of Prof. Dick Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, for instance.
He's addressed this matter in exactly the way you describe.

I worked with this guy as an assistant, some fifteen years ago, and believe me he was as surprised about the outcome of some of his experiments as anyone was - and to make things clear, he's NOT attached to any gay movement or anything.
Even more - he was BASHED for it by a small but significant part of my country's gay movement for claiming 'gayness' was rather determined by biological factors than by anything else. Some want it to be a free choice, but alas - science showed the contrary.

Swaab is a highly respected scientific researcher, not just in my country, but throughout the world. Of course NOT with the Jerry Faldwells of this world and other rabid 'believers' - in any meaning of the word, but that's obvious.
I was going to suggest that surely genetic traits are things that help ensure the survival of the human species, and homosexuality doesn't really do that, but then it occurs to me that you also get birth defects, hereditary diseases and the like.

*Note - I'm not trying to equate homosexuality with defects or diseases, just observing that not all of our genes have a purely utilitarian role. I mean as far as many of you in this thread are concerned, being gay may not help perpetuate the human race but it does make life more enjoyable, which would seem to be justification enough. *
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ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

Q. Were you naked at the time in the spa?

ROGER FEDERER: No. It was at the front desk. I didn't walk in naked.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:50 PM   #72
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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It's been a while since I read up on the subject but there were factors ranging from studies of the hypothalamus size (that's a date study, however) to exposure to hormone levels in utero, etc.
That's the study of Dick Swaab I refered to in my post here above.
It is dated, but believe me - not at all outdated.

Fact is: there ARE biological factors of influence, more than any others which contribute as well. Hope to be able to dig up the original article...
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:54 PM   #73
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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I was going to suggest that surely genetic traits are things that help ensure the survival of the human species, and homosexuality doesn't really do that, but then it occurs to me that you also get birth defects, hereditary diseases and the like.
All of it, of course. NOTHING is entirely nature or nurture!

Quote:
*Note - I'm not trying to equate homosexuality with defects or diseases, just observing that not all of our genes have a purely utilitarian role.
I wholeheartedly want to emphasize this as well -

And to make it even more difficult - for those who claim that all in nature is based on reproduction - there are numerous reports of other animals (hence: 'other'!) being involved in a same sex 'relationship' as well.

Homosexuality is just one of the many varieties in life to be found among the creation. Oops... creation... okay, that's a completely different subject to discuss.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:57 PM   #74
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Homosexuality is just one of the many varieties in life to be found among the creation. Oops... creation... okay, that's a completely different subject to discuss.
If the rain persists into the second week at RG, we could well have worked out the meaning of life by finals day.
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ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

Q. Were you naked at the time in the spa?

ROGER FEDERER: No. It was at the front desk. I didn't walk in naked.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:59 PM   #75
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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I'm native to the San Francisco area and I hate going to the Castro (the gay district). Not because I'm self-hating or hate gay culture (whatever that is), but I hate how touristy it is, how pretentious/expensive it is, and how parking ALWAYS sucks there. However, I'm glad it exists. (And I feel the same way about the hotel that started this whole thread.)
Ah, so that's what that Simpsons joke is based on! The one where they end up in Cuba and Castro says of the Americans, "Ah, they're not so bad, they even named a street after me in San Francisco." (aide whispers in his ear) "It's full of WHAT??!!"

Did they actually name the gay district after him, then? If so it tells you volumes about what were perceived as the threats to American society.
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ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

Q. Were you naked at the time in the spa?

ROGER FEDERER: No. It was at the front desk. I didn't walk in naked.
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