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Old 05-30-2007, 12:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

I agree with what you say about trying to separate onself from society, now every minotiry group in the USA wants their day, para etc. it is really ridiculous.

NOw a hotel being privately owned has the right to ban entry to whoever it pleases, weather it is gays, str8s , lesbians or even because of race.
I disagree with this policy but its up to the owner of the hotel...
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by zicofirol View Post
I agree with what you say about trying to separate onself from society, now every minotiry group in the USA wants their day, para etc. it is really ridiculous.

NOw a hotel being privately owned has the right to ban entry to whoever it pleases, weather it is gays, str8s , lesbians or even because of race.
I disagree with this policy but its up to the owner of the hotel...
Yeah, but I don't look at it in a legal point of view... But from a point of view that gays supposely want to end discrimination. But are you going to attain that goal by discriminating yourself? If straights go to a gar bar and a gay hotel, surely they are open-minded enough that it doesn't matter? There might be some minor incidents sometimes, but geez, big deal. It's a bar, there are fights sometimes over petty stuff.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Banks View Post
Yeah, but I don't look at it in a legal point of view... But from a point of view that gays supposely want to end discrimination. But are you going to attain that goal by discriminating yourself? If straights go to a gar bar and a gay hotel, surely they are open-minded enough that it doesn't matter? There might be some minor incidents sometimes, but geez, big deal. It's a bar, there are fights sometimes over petty stuff.
yeah, I agree.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

That business owner has every right to protect his customers from harassment. He didn't start out his business that way, he sought the protection AFTER the incidents occurred.

Walk a mile in the shoes and perhaps you will understand the need for the Gay Pride Parades, the Gay Games, and all of the other events the LGBT community holds throughout the year. They are still one of the single most discriminated against and persecuted minority groups in the US, I can only imagine what it's like in other countries.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

In every bar there are incidents sometimes. If a gay causes trouble in a straight bar, it's fine if they start banning them?

Sure, homophobia is a reality. But what annoys me is that people can't criticize anything gays and lesbians do on the basis they suffer from discrimination. That's awfully convenient to refuse all form of criticism on the basis that you're discriminated against.

I don't have any against gay pride parades. There's parades for all kind of stuff. However when you push one step further and start using your sexual orientation to create sports competition, this is just too much. This is no longer about asking for rights and tolerance; this is seperating yourself from the heterosexual society. Then, yeah, what's next? Gay cabs? Gay universities? I'm getting tired of the "celebrating diversity" argument; there is nothing to celebrate, you just happen to be attracted to the same sex... don't make a lifestyle out of that, it's pathetic.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:14 AM   #21
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

I think society has done a fairly decent job of separating the gay population, they have been fighting to get in. The Gay Games came about because so few gay athletes compete openly in established sports. If there wasn't a need for them, they wouldn't exist.

Being gay is life, just as being straight is. It's who you love, live with, settle down with. Or in the case of single males of both orientations, its how you score points.

That bar wasn't talking about 'incidents', the owner was speaking of specific events that were targeted at his base clientele. He has every right to protect his loyal customers, they are the ones who make his business a success. He should be able to protect himself against the ones who come in specifically to cost him business and take away from his success.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:57 AM   #22
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

This is a difficult issue. I myself am rather ambivalent about the whole thing.

On the one hand Paul Banks does raise a valid point insofar as banning heterosexuals in the long run could potentially isolate gay people more and perhaps cause resetment which may lead to more discrimination.

On the other hand, as Fee says we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the owner. I heard the interview with him on the BBC and he did say that the situation reached a point where it was intolerable and the gay men were being ridiculed and harrassed non stop.

I do think there should have been some kind of happy medium here rather than ban ALL heteros and lesbians. Not every straight and every lesbian is looking to cause mischief and abuse I am sure there are many who just want to go there, have a good time and soak the ambience so they shouldn't be unfairly discriminated against either.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
I think society has done a fairly decent job of separating the gay population, they have been fighting to get in.
Really? I've never been "seperated" from anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fee View Post
I think society has done a fairly decent job of separating the gay population, they have been fighting to get in. The Gay Games came about because so few gay athletes compete openly in established sports. If there wasn't a need for them, they wouldn't exist.
There is no need for them.

Quote:
Being gay is life, just as being straight is.
Homosexuals aren't ontologically a different species than straights. Therefore there is no need for them to create a lifestyle seperated from society, whether it is "gay games" or "gay hotels".

Quote:
He has every right to protect his loyal customers, they are the ones who make his business a success.
Yeah right, those evil lesbians, they have every right to ban them.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Banks View Post
Even if I'm gay myself, I'm really getting sick of homosexuals separating themselves from the rest of society. Gay Olympic games, gay hotel, gay parade, gay this, gay that, when is it going to stop? You're gay, get over it, don't make your life revolves around that.

Gay Aussie hotel wins right to ban heterosexuals, lesbians
by Justine Pellegrino Mon May 28, 5:26 AM ET


SYDNEY (AFP) - An Australian hotel popular with gay men has won the right to refuse entry to heterosexuals and lesbians, officials and the owner said Monday.

The Peel Hotel in Melbourne won an exemption from the Equal Opportunity Act to prevent insults and abuse directed toward gays in its bars and nightclubs, owner Tom McFeely told AFP.

"The hotel predominantly markets itself towards homosexual males, towards gay men and we want to protect the integrity of the venue as well as continue to make the men feel comfortable," McFeely said.

"When large numbers of heterosexuals or even lesbians are in the hotel that changes the atmosphere and many gay men can feel uncomfortable."
The landmark decision by a civil tribunal gives the establishment -- which does not offer accommodation -- the right to refuse entry to people considered a threat to the safety and comfort of its patrons.

Helen Szoke, the chief executive of the Victoria state government's Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission, said the Peel Hotel's gay clientele had experienced harassment, hostility and violence.

"(They) also have felt as though they've been like a zoo exhibit with big groups of women on hens' parties coming to the club," she said.
McFeely said his aim was not to ban all straight patrons and lesbians but to limit their numbers so gay men could freely express their sexuality.
He said he expected a backlash from other patrons, but added: "I'm not worried about it because to be frank I don't really care what heterosexuals or lesbians think.

"My main motivation is to protect my gay male customers and I realise heterosexuals and lesbians may be upset. but I don't care about that.
"We are open at 8.00pm and we go all the way through till the morning. We have two dancefloors -- it is a nightclub environment."
McFeely said it would be easy to sort out desirable gays from undesirable straights and lesbians.

"It is particularly easy to implement with the females 'cause that is pretty obvious.

"With the heterosexual males, if they identify themselves as that at the door, or indeed we question their behaviour in the venue and if they come across as being heterosexual, then we will simply ask them to leave if the behaviour is unappropriate."

Human rights group Liberty Victoria supported the decision, vice-president Michael Pearce said.

"There are numerous places where heterosexual people can go," he said.
"I think what (the tribunal) has said is that there aren't that many places where gay people can go and meet without the risk of being harassed or vilified, and that they are entitled to have their own spaces to do that in."
Yes, you are right. It is not normal. I think, that problem relies upon it, that human sexuality is exposed too much in present world. (We owe it of course to sexual revolution in USA ( the propagation of taking illegal drugs is owed to USA too. It is unquestionable ). It originates paradox - separated clubs, hotels and other institutions for homosexual and heterosexual people. And homosexualism is needed, cause of biological point of view too. It can likely protect people against excessive reproduction and it is thought by nature or God , as protection of species. It is much better way, as wars. And these people are not perverts, but normal people.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

discrimination is discrimination, and thats wrong, but then gays have gay bars but heteresexual people can enter too, but in this hotel heteresexual people is totally banned? nope, the want only to reduce the numbers of heterosexuals and lesbians
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kart View Post

I look at those events as celebratory rather than exclusive.
my point entirely
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Banks View Post
Really? I've never been "seperated" from anything.
If that is true, then you are the luckiest gay man that I have ever encountered. Where did you manage to get a legally sanctioned marriage, and do you have any pictures you would like to share of the blessed event? Hope that you and your partner have iron clad legal paperwork that recognizes you as his next of kin so that his family can't come in and kick you out of the hospital if anything ever happens to him.

Quote:
Homosexuals aren't ontologically a different species than straights. Therefore there is no need for them to create a lifestyle seperated from society, whether it is "gay games" or "gay hotels".
Neither are black people, or Jews, or women, or any other recognized 'disadvantaged' or discriminated against groups, but in the past all of them have had to go out and create their own version of something they were excluded from. No one is saying that gay people need to be or want to be separated from society, in fact all of the ones that I know want to be included in it. But until that happens (and I doubt that will happen in my lifetime), I have no problem with Gay games, gay bars, gay hotels, gay whatever. If one business owner (out of the thousands that exist) has felt the need to go to all this trouble to exclude a certain type of paying customer for the safety of his other paying customers, I can't fault his decision (unless someone convinces me with a better argument).
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fee View Post
I think society has done a fairly decent job of separating the gay population, they have been fighting to get in. The Gay Games came about because so few gay athletes compete openly in established sports. If there wasn't a need for them, they wouldn't exist.

Being gay is life, just as being straight is. It's who you love, live with, settle down with. Or in the case of single males of both orientations, its how you score points.

That bar wasn't talking about 'incidents', the owner was speaking of specific events that were targeted at his base clientele. He has every right to protect his loyal customers, they are the ones who make his business a success. He should be able to protect himself against the ones who come in specifically to cost him business and take away from his success.
Great posts in this thread from you. You're right about this. I think Paul has a few issues that he needs to work out, he obviously has a bit of resentment towards "gay culture." This isn't the first time it's popped up.

You're right that we've been discriminated against and have had no choice but to build our own little subset of society. I agree that things must be done to protect gay establishments from harm, but I do think that banning people just because they are straight would be wrong. I, for one, think that if a straight person wants to go to a gay club just to have fun then it's great for both that person and the club. The ultimate goal should be to be able to have seamless integration of our subculture into society as a whole. Nothing makes me happier than seeing a straight person willingly interact with gay people in clubs and such.
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:58 AM   #29
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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Originally Posted by BHF-DB View Post
they would be starting a war if there was a heterosexual hotel only.
The "they" you used is exactly why we need separate establishments in the first place.
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: Heterosexual discrimination

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The "they" you used is exactly why we need separate establishments in the first place.
A mistake is not the way to correct another mistake.
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