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Old 08-05-2008, 06:11 AM   #916
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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Originally Posted by lina_seta View Post
i wouldnt mind if djoko wins USO actually... as long as its not nadal making the semis or final... i would be fine. in the long run im just more worried about rafa overtaking fed's legacy than djoko.

SO... the enemy of my enemy is my friend
actually i mind either djoko or nadal winning... don't forget that roger will end up no.3 if djoko does well... so i rather other ppl (who doesn't pose a threat to roger) to win... perhaps safin or roddick...?

the enemy of my enemy is my friend too... but to me both nadal and djoko are the enemies... any enemies of them are my friends...


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Old 08-05-2008, 10:05 AM   #917
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

UPDATED after Cincinatti
As almost everyone knows, Nadal secured the #1 ranking at Cincy. This is reflected in the figures I have put up here. However, due to the off calendar this year (last years Canada/Cincy points haven't come off yet), Roger is still #1 in the official rankings and will remain so until august 18th when Nadal takes over regardless of what happens at the Olympics.

Effectively Nadal leads Roger by 495 in the 52-week rankings, while he leads Roger by a massive 1995 points in the 2008 rankings. Infact Roger also trails Djokovic by 215 points in the 2008 rankings and is on course to finish the year as the #3 player in the world. Nadal, impressively, is on course to post one of the highest year-end point totals ever recorded, although he won't beat the incredible 8370 points scored by Roger in 2006, even if he has a theoretical chance of doing so.

Highest year-end point totals recorded from 1990 and onwards:

1. Roger Federer, 2006 - 8370 points
2. Roger Federer, 2007 - 7180 points
3. Roger Federer, 2005 - 6725 points
4. Roger Federer, 2004 - 6335 points
5. Rafael Nadal, 2008 - 5500 points (and counting)

If corrected for ranking system diffences, Pete Sampras DID end the year 1994 with around 6000 points and would therefore take 5th place on the list (until Nadal exceeds that total in a few weeks time).

Honestly, I don't think that Roger will ever regain the #1 ranking, nor do I think it should be a priority of his. I believe the most fruitful course from now on will be to lay further emphassis on practice and focus on the only tournaments that truly counts: the grand slams. The most-weeks-at-#1 record would be a nice record to have, but ultimately the Grand Slam record is the one that matters.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:26 PM   #918
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

Thanks for the update!

Quote:
Honestly, I don't think that Roger will ever regain the #1 ranking, nor do I think it should be a priority of his.
I agree that it shouldn't be his priority... but why do you think he will never regain that #1 position? He's got plenty of points to pick up next year, and just as it isn't sure how he will be doing at that time, it isn't a given that Rafa, or any other player for that matter, will be doing as good as he is right now either...

A bit too quick in writing Roger off for that #1 position I think. Sampras dropped it quite a few times and was always able to get it back again. Roger may well be able to do the same thing.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:55 PM   #919
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

I think Nadal will get injured next year and Federer will retain his number 1 position and win RG as well. After that Djokovic will dominate for a while until Nadal returns back to the top. Federer will drop to number 3 and stay there for a long time until he declines more and decides to retire around 2011.

Just a crazy prediction lol
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:49 PM   #920
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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Thanks for the update!



I agree that it shouldn't be his priority... but why do you think he will never regain that #1 position? He's got plenty of points to pick up next year, and just as it isn't sure how he will be doing at that time, it isn't a given that Rafa, or any other player for that matter, will be doing as good as he is right now either...

A bit too quick in writing Roger off for that #1 position I think. Sampras dropped it quite a few times and was always able to get it back again. Roger may well be able to do the same thing.
i'm not giving up the possibility of #1 again... but i think the odds are against roger to regain #1 again... there might be many points to gain next year... it is still a big question at this point of time whether he can gain them... and roger's form and results seems to be on slow decline since 2007... plus... roger is turning 27... i am wondering if he has already past his peak and will lose more tournaments than win them... plus nadal is 22 and into his prime... he is only getting better... plus he should be way ahead in points than roger if the trend goes...

but i do agree the grand slam record (which is more likely) is more important than no.1... ESPECIALLY the french -- which seems unlikely unless nadal gets injured some time before roger retires AND roger plays his best...


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Old 08-05-2008, 04:29 PM   #921
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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Just a crazy prediction lol
Well, in fact, something like a 'crazy' prediction doesn't exist, as it could indeed happen.

Fact is - we don't know. We just have to wait and see. I only wanted to point out that it's just as 'crazy' to predict him coming back (eh... he's still there, last time I checked!) as it is to say he's done.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:26 PM   #922
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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I agree that it shouldn't be his priority... but why do you think he will never regain that #1 position? He's got plenty of points to pick up next year, and just as it isn't sure how he will be doing at that time, it isn't a given that Rafa, or any other player for that matter, will be doing as good as he is right now either...

A bit too quick in writing Roger off for that #1 position I think. Sampras dropped it quite a few times and was always able to get it back again. Roger may well be able to do the same thing.
True, but these are different times. Sampras was able to clock in a large amount of weeks at #1 after his decline started for two reasons:

1) Noone else had any kind of consistency. There was a period in the late 90's where all you needed was a great month combined with decent showings for the rest of the year and you'd be #1.

2) Sampras amazing serve allowed for him to continue to have very good results after his baseline game declined. Crucially this meant winning Wimbledon almost every year and at that point you didn't need to do THAT much else to get to #1 if you had a Grand Slam title.

None of these scenarios apply today. Even if Nadal doesn't continue his current amazing form, he should be able to put in performances equal to his 2006 and 2007 season just by continuing to dominate on clay, which everybody expects him to. Scoring more points than Nadal during those years is impossible if you're not JesusFed. Nadal had more than enough points during those years to be #1 during almost every non-Federer dominant year. Also, baseline game is everything these days - if you lose a step here you just will not win the big titles. That's my real concern with Roger.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:33 PM   #923
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

You bring up some interesting points, BlueSwan. Thanks.

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1) Noone else had any kind of consistency. There was a period in the late 90's where all you needed was a great month combined with decent showings for the rest of the year and you'd be #1.
That is true. The field was a lot 'closer', while we now have this huge gap between #1, #2 (and okay, perhaps, #3... I still have to see Djoko maintaining the lead he has to the rest of the field for the rest of the season, though) and 'the rest'. It only shows what a fantastic #1 and #2 we currently have. Still, either of the two's consistency may fade (Roger's already has ), and we might get back to the situation of old. Who knows?

Quote:
2) Sampras amazing serve allowed for him to continue to have very good results after his baseline game declined. Crucially this meant winning Wimbledon almost every year and at that point you didn't need to do THAT much else to get to #1 if you had a Grand Slam title.
True, but I see no reason why Fed wouldn't be able to do the same thing. IMHO he's already improved his serve a lot during the past couple of months/years. The problem is rather that he needs to keep up the level of the rest of his game. The lapses in holding serve have cost him dearly this year, but again, who knows...

Quote:
Even if Nadal doesn't continue his current amazing form, he should be able to put in performances equal to his 2006 and 2007 season just by continuing to dominate on clay, which everybody expects him to.
Valid point, indeed.

Quote:
Scoring more points than Nadal during those years is impossible if you're not JesusFed. Nadal had more than enough points during those years to be #1 during almost every non-Federer dominant year.
The main reason why I think he so much deserves that #1 spot, and of course, for having been #2 for such a long time - he, and nobody else is, is Fed's rightful heir to the throne. But still, we have to see whose career will have the longer life in th end. I remember so well the days when Hewitt and Roddick were #1 and were considered unbeatable... and both of them faded a lot earlier than expected when they were #1s. Of course, the same thing could happen to Fed.

Quote:
Also, baseline game is everything these days - if you lose a step here you just will not win the big titles. That's my real concern with Roger.
A fair point, and I fully agree with you. One has to accept reality the way it is.
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:49 PM   #924
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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True, but I see no reason why Fed wouldn't be able to do the same thing. IMHO he's already improved his serve a lot during the past couple of months/years. The problem is rather that he needs to keep up the level of the rest of his game. The lapses in holding serve have cost him dearly this year, but again, who knows...
for me... besides all the points blueswan mentioned... the other worry is federer's age... he's 27 now... sampras also started his decline at this age... so i worry is that age is catching up with federer... even if he still can play amazing tennis like jesusfed sometimes... monofed is going to poke his head more often too... and consistency these days will determine whether you are at no.1 or not...


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Old 08-11-2008, 11:28 AM   #925
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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for me... besides all the points blueswan mentioned... the other worry is federer's age... he's 27 now... sampras also started his decline at this age... so i worry is that age is catching up with federer... even if he still can play amazing tennis like jesusfed sometimes... monofed is going to poke his head more often too... and consistency these days will determine whether you are at no.1 or not...
Of course, his age *is* an issue, and you are right - a lot of players started to decline around 27. Still, I think - or rather, I hope - that it won't be such a great factor for Rogi. He has been a late bloomer, only picking up his first GS just before the age of 22, whereas plenty players start peaking at 18, 19. This, combined with his very economic style of playing, gives me the idea that he's still got quite a few good years ahead of him.

If he manages to, just like Sampras, pick up a slam and a couple of 'minor' tournament victories each year, he'll be doing just fine, and might well be able to pick up that #1 position for a couple of short times again just the same. Keep in mind that the only really consistent player around at this moment is Rafa, and we'll just have to wait and see whether he is indeed capable of keeping up that consistency in the coming years.
What Roger managed to do during the past four years is quite unique...
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:52 PM   #926
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

I think this thread should be retired now. Federer has lost the #1 ranking and he is unlikely to get it back. Therefore I have lost the motivation to keep updating the thread. If someone else wants to do it they're welcome. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it again if Roger ever gets close to becoming #1 again.
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:00 PM   #927
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

please don't give up!!!!
Roger will back!
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:03 AM   #928
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

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I think this thread should be retired now. Federer has lost the #1 ranking and he is unlikely to get it back. Therefore I have lost the motivation to keep updating the thread. If someone else wants to do it they're welcome. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it again if Roger ever gets close to becoming #1 again.
why must the thread be updating on #1?? i'd say that unless roger drops out of top 3... there is still point to update it... right now novak is closing up on roger... he is closer to roger than roger is to nadal... i worried about roger getting overtaken and relegating to 3rd spot.... but at least top 3 positions are secure for quite a while...

but if he drops out of top 3 some day... i would probably lose interest in tennis again...



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Old 08-18-2008, 01:43 AM   #929
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

I also think it would be awesome to update it =]

I really like this thread, and I still believe Roger will regain it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:44 AM   #930
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Default Re: Federer vs Nadal & Djokovic ranking points (First post always updated)

A lot of players have a ranking thread Why not just keep it?
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