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Old 08-20-2012, 02:51 PM   #1561
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

Thankyou so much my GOD!
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:16 PM   #1562
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
it's not fair at all imo : it's assuming Nadal would have won Wimbledon ... which is going very very very far away from fair imo. It is not a "due" for anyone to win Wimbledon.

What you say could be said for 2009 but it has nothing to do with the picture this year.

What would be FAIR if you want would be to say that Fed would not have achieved that number 1 without the blue clay in Madrid if you want to consider that Fed would not have won Madrid and Nadal would have fairly won it
Not for the first time you are misinterpreting my post. No worries - it happens a lot of times.

Quote:
no that's where you make a mistake : it didn't play any role in Fed getting the number 1 this year, contrary to what happened in 2009.

Unless you consider Nadal was guaranteed to win Wimbledon this year defeating everybody including Rosol, Kohlschreiber, Tsonga, Murray in semi and Fed in final
Nope, Rafa would have just have managed to live up (close) to the expectations due of his ranking, and Roger would NOT have grabbed back the #1 ranking position. A clear fact, and I'm not the one to dismiss it.

Whatever, eventually, what counts is merely TAKING ONE's CHANCES whenever they come, and after Rafa's early loss (deserved, let that be clear!), Roger did so, and he should - and GETS! - all praise for doing so.

Once again: my comment is NOT meant to diminish Roger's accomplishment in any way - it's just an objective assessment of what happened.
One guy's demure is another guy's glory, that's how it works in sports - and anywhere else, too.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:58 PM   #1563
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Not for the first time you are misinterpreting my post. No worries - it happens a lot of times.
it's possible in general, but here precisely that was your post :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Rodge already surpassed my biggest ever hopes & dreams for being able to take back the #1 position at Wimbledon, and to surpass Sampras' record in doing so.
I do think it's pretty fair to acknowledge that he wouldn't have managed that without some kind of unfortunate 'help' from a certain other guy, though... and damn me for saying it, Roger's glory makes me as happy as Said Other Guy's misfortune makes me , for this matter.

In all honesty, I don't give a bloody damn if Djoko (or whoever else) takes it (back) sooner or later - but of course, better later than sooner.
Keep it going, CHAMP!
what I understood, and that's the only thing I mentioned, and in this last post you seem to say it again, is that you consider that Fed wouldn't have managed to get to number 1 back without Nadal's injury and loss to Rosol.

and I wondered what could Nadal have done against Fed getting back to number 1 without any injury ?

the only thing which I could think of which could have changed was that Nadal would have won Wimbledon.

Unless you consider that he would have defeated Federer in Indian Wells ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Nope, Rafa would have just have managed to live up (close) to the expectations due of his ranking, and Roger would NOT have grabbed back the #1 ranking position.
What would Nadal have done precisely that would have prevented Fed from grabbing back the number 1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
A clear fact, and I'm not the one to dismiss it.
for this year, you're the only one I've read saying that.

Usually people consider Djokovic as Fed's opponent for the number 1 this year, I don't understand what Nadal has to do with it now

Well in my eyes yes Nadal has helped Fed to get the number 1 back this year ... by defeating Djokovic in Monte-Carlo, Roma and Roland-Garros.
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:49 PM   #1564
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

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Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Not for the first time you are misinterpreting my post. No worries - it happens a lot of times.
Nope, Rafa would have just have managed to live up (close) to the expectations due of his ranking, and Roger would NOT have grabbed back the #1 ranking position. A clear fact, and I'm not the one to dismiss it.

Whatever, eventually, what counts is merely TAKING ONE's CHANCES whenever they come, and after Rafa's early loss (deserved, let that be clear!), Roger did so, and he should - and GETS! - all praise for doing so.

Once again: my comment is NOT meant to diminish Roger's accomplishment in any way - it's just an objective assessment of what happened.
One guy's demure is another guy's glory, that's how it works in sports - and anywhere else, too.
If Roger won Wimbledon he would have secured #1 no matter who was on the other side of the net. So even if Nadal made it to the finals, he would only prevent Roger from taking #1 if he beat him. So yes, saying that Federer "would not" claim the #1 if Nadal didn't lose to Rosol is basically saying that Nadal would win Wimbledon.

Anyway that's still a lame argument because of the way the ranking works: 52 weeks. Next time you might as well discredit Roger's titles where he didn't have to face Nadal, because if he lived up to the expectations of his ranking he would be in the final every single time (#2).

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Old 08-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #1565
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

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Originally Posted by juninhOH View Post
If Roger won Wimbledon he would have secured #1 no matter who was on the other side of the net. So even if Nadal made it to the finals, he would only prevent Roger from taking #1 if he beat him. So yes, saying that Federer "would not" claim the #1 if Nadal didn't lose to Rosol is basically saying that Nadal would win Wimbledon.

Anyway that's still a lame argument because of the way the ranking works: 52 weeks. Next time you might as well discredit Roger's titles where he didn't have to face Nadal, because if he lived up to the expectations of his ranking he would be in the final every single time (#2).
Agreed, its a braindead argument and frankly one I would expect reading in GM or the ignorant tennis media and not in a fan forum of Roger by a professed Fedal who is perhaps more Al than Fed.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:39 PM   #1566
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

Regarding YE #1 I believe this will be Feds schedule for the rest of the year

USO , DC , Shanghai , Basel and YEC

To maximize his chances it should have been

USO , Tokyo , Shanghai , Paris and YEC

Anyway I feel that Fed will at least have to equal Nole at the USO to have a shot at the YE #1. My wish is for him to achieve this for one last time and then be content with a top 4 ranking and selective scheduling for the next few years!
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:54 PM   #1567
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

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Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post



Nope, Rafa would have just have managed to live up (close) to the expectations due of his ranking, and Roger would NOT have grabbed back the #1 ranking position. A clear fact, and I'm not the one to dismiss it.
NO!...Only way nadal would've prevented roger from taking No.1 ranking is to win wimbledon....it would not have been enough even if he had made the final. So, basically YES you're assuming nadal would've won wimbledon as it is the only way he could've prevented roger from taking No.1....and how many hardcourt tournaments did Nadal live up to his exceptations (ranking) as you say in the last 2 years.....what a lame argument and the fact that you're still trying to reason with it is beyond anything...
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:41 PM   #1568
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Nope, Rafa would have just have managed to live up (close) to the expectations due of his ranking, and Roger would NOT have grabbed back the #1 ranking position. A clear fact, and I'm not the one to dismiss it.
Nadal needed to win the tournament to stop Federer from taking the #1 spot, that's not the same as living close to the expectations.

LOL seems like others had already pointed this out, I should probably read the page down before answering to posts.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:50 PM   #1569
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

Federer 2010 indoor season: 3210 points (600 250 500 360 1500)
Djokovic 2010 indoor season: 1260 points(500 360 400)

Federer 2011 indoor season: 3000 points (500 1000 1500)
Djokovic 2011 indoor season: 560 points (180 180 200)

Federer is in a pretty good position atm.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:48 PM   #1570
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

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Originally Posted by IOFH View Post
Federer 2010 indoor season: 3210 points (600 250 500 360 1500)
Djokovic 2010 indoor season: 1260 points(500 360 400)

Federer 2011 indoor season: 3000 points (500 1000 1500)
Djokovic 2011 indoor season: 560 points (180 180 200)

Federer is in a pretty good position atm.
He is, but those past two seasons were extraordinary and will be difficult to duplicate. Part of the reason why he did so well the past two years is because somehow, someway, he forgot about his devastating loss to Djokovic at the USO and then put all of his focus on those tournaments so he could give himself a chance at getting back to #1. A little tangentially, I don't think people give him enough credit for coming back from those two defeats at the USO. Those are usually "death knell" signaling defeats for great champions at the end of their respective runs, but he turned things around very quickly.

I wonder how badly he wants to finish the year #1. I think if he does better than Djokovic or at least equal to him or he's less than 500 points away from Djokovic by USO's end, he'll give it a good effort to finish the year strongly.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:55 PM   #1571
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

It's certainly not easy to do what Federer is doing post age 30. It's striking to see how Sampras and Federer compare post age 30.

Code:
Sampras post age 30:

Grand slam title:  1
Grand slam runner-up:  0
Grand Slam semi:  1
Grand slam record:  17 - 4
TMS/1000 titles:  0
TMS/1000 finals:  0
TMS/1000 semi-finalist:  1
TMS/1000 record :  10 – 7 
YEC/WTF:  Didn’t play
Other tournament titles:  0
Other tournament finals:  2
Highest ranking:  10
Top 10 wins:  6
Straight set losses:  8
Record:  37-20

Federer post age 30:

Grand slam title:   1
Grand slam runner-up:  0
Grand Slam semis:  3
Grand Slam record:  21 – 3 
1000 titles:  4
1000 runner-up:  0
1000 semi-finalist:  1
TMS/1000 record: 28-4
YEC/WTF:  Won (5-0)
Other tournament titles:  3
Other tournament finals:  1
Highest ranking:  1
Top 10 wins:  19
Straight set losses:  4
Record:  80-9 (Through Cincy, 2012)
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:49 PM   #1572
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

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Originally Posted by NYCtennisfan View Post
He is, but those past two seasons were extraordinary and will be difficult to duplicate. Part of the reason why he did so well the past two years is because somehow, someway, he forgot about his devastating loss to Djokovic at the USO and then put all of his focus on those tournaments so he could give himself a chance at getting back to #1. A little tangentially, I don't think people give him enough credit for coming back from those two defeats at the USO. Those are usually "death knell" signaling defeats for great champions at the end of their respective runs, but he turned things around very quickly.

I wonder how badly he wants to finish the year #1. I think if he does better than Djokovic or at least equal to him or he's less than 500 points away from Djokovic by USO's end, he'll give it a good effort to finish the year strongly.
the problem is also the schedule with no week between PAris-Bercy and the WTF : I think he won't play PAris-Bercy (more certain than not playing Shanghai imo) and surely that takes some points off that he could have had.

As for his priority, I think he wants to see after the US Open, yes : his priority is surely to win the US Open ... and then it would be tough for Djokovic to get back to him, even though Djokovic can play a great Asian season I'm not sure Novak will have enough gas and motivation for that, if you think of how he finished previous years and him not looking too happy at the moment.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:21 AM   #1573
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

This may sound like heresy to some but looking at it from a purely mathematical point of view, it would be easier for RF to play Shanghai-Basel-Bercy if he wants to get the #1 YE. Why is that? Because Bercy will probably offer a very weak field or the top players won't even try.

Then the 1000 points are much easier to gain than the WTF where everyone will be going all out. He needs to win WTF unbeaten/with one loss to significantly improve on a Bercy win which will probably be easier for him.

Tsonga and Berdych are also not playing as well as last season and if Murray and Djokovic are out, then it seems a lot easier to win 5 matches there.

It's just theoretical but Shanghai-Basel-Bercy seem like easier points and less risky. Obviously, if he wins the USO and Djokovic somehow goes out before the SF, he'll have a huge gap to play with.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:16 AM   #1574
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

thanksfor the data!
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #1575
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Default Re: Federer's ranking discussion

the year end number 1 does not mean anything....
These 2 statistics will remain forever .........
The most Grand Slam titles & the most weeks at number 1 ranking ..

i love you Roger....................
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