[duong]

Originally Posted by star

You've decided he was not "clever" because as a child he believed his uncle could make it rain? I know many children who have believed in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. They've grown up to be intelligent and thoughtful adults.

First I have not decided anything : I told you there are signs in both directions then I wonder, that's all.

Secondly, it's not only because of that, and the question about the rain story here is naiveness, not uncleverness, you also know many other things about Nadal being afraid of the darkness, his fascination for fishing ... I don't say it means he's unclever, but at least it describes him as a "mystical/natural" person rather than an intellectual one (the story which you love about the flower during his match against Verdasco is a typical one).

As for cleverness, there are other parts, and his comments about doping are a part of it.

Finally, let me tell you something : contrary to many people in this world, I have nothing, nothing against unclever people. I don't judge people on that criterium at all, but on other ones, but it would be too long to explain.

If anything, I find all those things rather touching. However, yes, I wouldn't rely on Nadal to explain me the world as far as I know.

Originally Posted by star

You actually don't have a good impression of Nadal off the court based on what you've said. You have questions about his entourage and isn't it interesting that you call it an entourage instead of a team? I realize english is not your first language, but I don't think this has a good connotation even in French.

in French "entourage" doesn't necessarily have a bad connotation, yes I could have said people surrounding him, it would have been exactly the same. But I clearly said that no, I don't have a good impression about them, not only Toni, but also Costa and the people who imo are eager for money around him. Also, I think they have a huge influence on him.

That's my impression. In all this, my personal impression is good about Rafael Nadal himself (and as I said, if he's unclever, it would imo be rather viewed as positive than negative for him, clearly you think differently from me here), not good about the people surrounding him.

And there are people who are Nadalfans who criticize them as well, I know Mimi told me she doesn't like Toni, and I also know many people who think that Nadal playss too many tournaments, and they can't help thinking just like me that this has something to do with other people wanting to make money thanks to him.

Originally Posted by star

I agree in the past Nadal has rather reflexively defended Spanish athletes, and I disagree with him. He also defended Gasquet very vehemently. I think he was wrong there too. Nadal has tended to believe his friends and athletes. That speaks well for his loyalty, but perhaps not for his understanding of the testing process.

Of course it's hard to know how smart people are when you see them in controlled surroundings, but I note that Nadal likes to read and so many athletes admit to never opening a book. Just that makes me think he's not the unintelligent person you make him out to be.

As I said, I just wonder : there are signs in both directions. Besides, naiveness is a little bit different from uncleverness, and is only a component of it.

I can tell you : I know I'm more clever than other people I know on some topics (I know that because I can understand things that they can't understand) and I'm compltely stupid comparing to other people for some other things. To tell you that I don't have a monolithic vision of what cleverness is and I don't judge people on that.

Originally Posted by star

I see a lot of people in this thread throwing suspicion on players they don't like and also shielding players they do like from any suspicion. There is the idea that Federer doesn't need to use drugs because he is so talented and of course, Nadal is Spanish so although one doesn't know, it makes one wonder. These are the constant themes of the thread.

I know that, I don't think this thread is so full of that comparing to other things I read on that topic, but I know inevitably that many people have suspected Nadal, more for bad reasons than for good ones imo.

Anyway, I tried to compensate for that. And my personal opinion doesn't go in that direction at all. I will not tell it here because it would start a debate but in the order of my suspicions on top-players, Nadal is not the first one at all. And I suspect Federer as well although I love him.

The "Spain" topic is another topic, and a much more serious one, clearly Nadal suffers from that Spain-topic, but I will not moderate what I say on that other very serious topic just not to hurt Nadal-fans.

Originally Posted by star

I may be misunderstanding a lot of what you said in your post. Apparently I don't understand a lot of what you said because when you reply to me you tell me you said something different than I thought you said. So if I did misunderstand, apologies in advance.

that's very nice from you to tell me that Anyway, I know that sometimes I've been harsh at Nadal, and especially I'm sorry that I surely have hurt some legitimate loving feelings.

That's what allergy does to you. At least I realized that I had that allergy. I know some people who have not realized that epidermic/irrational character of their feelings towards other players, notably towards Federer, and are still in that phase I used to have.

For a while, I've tried to lower my instinctive reactions to Nadal and especially the ones which may hurt his fans, I know that some have realized that effort, I know that some still have the picture of what I used to be, and also some just don't think further than "he hates Nadal".

That's all normal At least, trying to understand me is a very nice effort which I appreciate Really understanding is not guaranteed even when one tries, I know that with other people unfortunately

[Prodigy.]

Rafael Nadal: tell public who is tested for drugs and how often


Associated Press
The Observer, Saturday 9 February 2013 18.32 GMT

Rafael Nadal




Spain's Rafael Nadal returns the ball in his win over Daniel Gimeno-Traver at the VTR Open in Chile. Photograph: Luis Hidalgo/AP

Rafael Nadal says testing for performance-enhancing drugs in sport should strike a balance between catching the cheats and respecting the athletes. "Not everyone has to pay for some sinners," Nadal said at the VTR Open in Chile.

The Spaniard said earlier this week that he had passed six blood and urine tests since losing on 28 June at Wimbledon, his most recent tournament before competing in Chile, his comeback event after seven months off to recover from a left knee injury.

Nadal, 11 times a grand slam winner, said it should be made public who is being tested and how frequently. "If I go through a lot or very few doping controls people should know," he said. "Though I went for seven months without competing, I went through a lot of tests. I don't have to justify anything. This information should be open the public."

All the leading tennis players are subject to being tested without warning. The admission last month by Lance Armstrong that he used banned substances in all seven of his Tour de France victories has increased the focus on doping in all sports.

"The important thing is that those who cheat pay for their cheating," Nadal said. "With Armstrong the image of sport has been damaged, especially in the case of cycling. The important thing is for sport to clean up its image; that the controls are made public. They should do the tests they need to do, but they should be done respecting the athlete. From my point of view, this has not always happened."

Nadal put himself through a twin workout to test his sore left knee, defeating fellow Spaniard Daniel Gimeno-Traver 6-1, 6-4 to reach the semi-finals of the VTR Open.

He followed that with a doubles victory, teaming with Juan Mónaco to win 6-3, 6-4 over the Argentinian pair of Carlos Berlocq and Leonardo Mayer. Those two wins means Nadal has played five matches in four days. "I felt better today than the first day, so that's positive," he said. "That gives me confidence and hope for the future that we're going in the right way.

After seven months out of competition, even if I don't have the pain in the knee, at the beginning you feel slower, you feel more tired than usual so you need time to adapt. That's the thing. I need time to do it. I still feel pain in the knee some days and that's something we hope and think will be improving week by week."

Maybe this will shut up all the Nadal haters who make stupid accusations and claims that he dopes. I agree, ATP/ITF needs to tell people who is tested and how often. Wise words Rafito.

[alypen]

Yes, but can you imagine the speculation that would arouse on here? "Oh, Player A's been tested 6 times, and Player B only twice. They must suspect Player A of doping, so they're keeping an eye on him" ...

[Looner]

How many times was Armstrong tested? I rest my case.

[pepita1964]

Daren Cahill said anti doping testing is very bad because they do not test for EPO ,HGH because of financial reasons /lack of money/. So all players know that. Amrstrong was tested maybe much more than tennis players are and what for ten years they could not catch him. Rafa is better to shut up

[TennisOnWood]

Great Britain against Rafa

[alypen]

Oops, must be a lot of us still awake at half-past midnight!

[rocketassist]

How many blood tests do they do though? Urine tests are next to fucking useless these days. Not suggesting he's done anything but only more consistent and frequent BLOOD testing will weed out the rats.

[Saberq]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

How many blood tests do they do though? Urine tests are next to fucking useless these days. Not suggesting he's done anything but only more consistent and frequent BLOOD testing will weed out the rats.

you can beat blood test also with ease if you know they're coming

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by ProdigyEng

Maybe this will shut up all the Nadal haters who make stupid accusations and claims that he dopes. I agree, ATP/ITF needs to tell people who is tested and how often. Wise words Rafito.

Sorry for saying it, but this comment seems a little naive to me.

Anyone can make noises to the press about how dope testing should be more effective/rigorous/transparent. In fact, post-Armstrong it almost seems like every tennis player has something to say in support of effective dope testing. It doesn't mean they say what they really think.


Point being, anyone (and I'm not saying this includes me!) who believed Nadal was a doper before - well, this soundbite to the press is not going to convince them otherwise.

[Mr. Oracle]

"All the leading tennis players are subject to being tested without warning"

If this is the case as AP claims, then why all the speculation and debate about the effectiveness of the testing program? If you dope regularly, eventually you will get caught. With regards to frequency, it sure looks like Rafa's had his fair share. Other players have complained about spooks popping up out of nowhere.

"This information should be open the public"

Here's where I'm really curious. Why does he care whether the process is transparent to the public? What does he have to gain?

[BackhandDTL]

Well, Rafa's officially back. Not a single interview he gives goes unnotticed uncirculated

He needs a talk show, methinks.

[Mountaindewslave]

Originally Posted by pepita1964

Daren Cahill said anti doping testing is very bad because they do not test for EPO ,HGH because of financial reasons /lack of money/. So all players know that. Amrstrong was tested maybe much more than tennis players are and what for ten years they could not catch him. Rafa is better to shut up

please the tests work or they don't, if they don't then don't test at all. if they do then be fair and even about it, no reason to harass Nadal with 7 tests or whatever when he's out with injury.

Nadal made some good points and it would be counter intuitive to say that you think he literally is prompting the testing BECAUSE he thinks he could get away with drugging even with a lot of tests. that's just stupid.

obviously he is trying to indicate that testing should be in the open so everyone knows and he is frustrated that people have claimed that he abuses drugs so often. if anything this provides a notion to believe that he doesn't use preformance enhancing drugs.

he eats a lot. a lot of food. and a lot of fish. he eats a lot of fish. he fishes a lot. I'm trying to like. say this very simply. so the simple minded tennis. fans. will understand. he's a strong guy because. working out + eating lots of proteins = muscle

that's all. it's funny everyone makes fun of "Nadal is so dumb, no?" but if he were that dumb he and his team certainly wouldn't be pressing or taunting the ATP to further drug tests and/or be more open about them. because supposedly dumb 'Nadal' would let himself get caught somehow. can't have it everyway, he's a bully, he does drugs, he's really dumb, etc etc. you guys take jabs anyway you can and in the process make twists and turns that contradict each other

NADAL DOES NOT USE PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS HE IS JUST AWESOME THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[Mountaindewslave]

Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle

"All the leading tennis players are subject to being tested without warning"

If this is the case as AP claims, then why all the speculation and debate about the effectiveness of the testing program? If you dope regularly, eventually you will get caught. With regards to frequency, it sure looks like Rafa's had his fair share. Other players have complained about spooks popping up out of nowhere.

this!

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave

that's all. it's funny everyone makes fun of "Nadal is so dumb, no?" but if he were that dumb he and his team certainly wouldn't be pressing or taunting the ATP to further drug tests and/or be more open about them. because supposedly dumb 'Nadal' would let himself get caught somehow. can't have it everyway, he's a bully, he does drugs, he's really dumb, etc etc. you guys take jabs anyway you can and in the process make twists and turns that contradict each other

NADAL DOES NOT USE PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS HE IS JUST AWESOME THANK YOU VERY MUCH

Please. Before Armstrong was outed he was always the voice when it came to outing drugged cyclists. He was always pushing for more strict drug testing and making it look like he was the anti-doping spokesperson, when in fact HE was systematically cheating the system.

Just because Nadal has come out saying the ATP need to crackdown harder doesn't mean he couldn't be cheating (I do agree it is unlikely though).

Armstrong passed every drug test
Barry Bonds passed every drug test
Marion Jones passed every drug test

Guess what happened to them?