Lately we have seen many threads debating wether Federer or Sampras is the greatest payer ever. It has been pointed out how similar the two players are statwise at a certain juncture in their career.
It lately struck me just how much ahead Nadal is of both Sampras and Federer as a teenager. Here's to put things into perspective.
Nadal has now won..
14 titles - well ahead of the likes of Rafter, Mecir and Ferrero, trailing players like Safin and Rosset by only 1 title.
5 TMS events - just insane for a teenager, already 6th on the all-time list.
a lone slam. But neither Sampras nor Federer did better as a teen.
The sole reason Nadal hasn't been number one yet is because there is a certain Swiss powerhouse in the game. Yet Nadal finished 2005 with a ranking point total which would have seen him as #1 each but one year between 1997 and 2003.
Nadal obviously posted most of his results on clay, but he has proven he can win on other surfaces too, with masters shields on carpet and hard court. In a way you can picture Nadal as an inverse Sampras. Rafa has clay as his base, can play well on carpet and hard courts too, but has one surface which might become an eternal problem... grass. It will be very interesting to see if Nadal can adept his game to become a force on grass too and if he manages to prevent the mid twenties burnout which seems to be common among clay court specialists these days.
Of course it's too early to tell, but with Nadal's results he is well on his way to immortality. I just wanted to point out how far ahead Nadal is at his age.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
I like this thread . . . He has tons of records, and still is only a teenager. It is early in his career, which leads me to think about how much more he will accomplish. He's amazing.
ATPtennis.com is also posting a lot of stuff about him lately, if you scroll down the page, you will see that he has the best record in finals, 87.5%. He is also on the way to holding the most consecutive wins on clay, right behind Borg, and Vilas.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
I have to admit Rafa is a phenomenon. Those stats are just crazy for someone aged only 19....hell for anyone for that matter. Those who hate him love to think that it's inevitable that he burns out, but I just don't see it happening. Very interesting comparison you're making between Rafa and Pete. Very good. This guy has won more Masters than Hewitt, JCF, Safin, Coria etc. With an all but guaranteed win this week in Barcelona, he's going to match the great Marat in the number of tournaments won. He's beaten the likes of Agassi, Federer, Ljubicic on their favourite surfaces. I hope they seed him 2nd at Wimbledon so we can see whether he's made any improvements on that surface...enough to meet Rogi in the final. I would really enjoy THAT match safe in the knowledge that Rogi would prevail
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
i will be more than happy if nadal gets into QF of wimbledon within next 2 years...
actually if nadal continues to improve his serve, to produce faster serve, i can see him into the semi.... he is more willing to come to the net these days and his volley is not bad at all, he has still got plenty of room to imrpove... and i really believe he can win wimbledon one day...
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
for one thing
what Rafael is doing is phenomenal
even more impressive than Federer in my book
everyone seems to concentrate on federer,
but they overlook or love to hate a 19 year playing with the maturity & determination that many champs didnt have
it is usually that players who enjoy success early on have a shorter influenc eor domination as they grow older
u always have exception & Nadal surely looks like one
his serve is impriving & will continue , maybe to become a weapon
apart from the 2 player, no one on the circuit is even close to doing well
I mention Ljubo becoz he has a solid game, starting to believe he belongs with the beset
which will help in his GS.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
Purple Rainbow said:
Of course it's too early to tell, but with Nadal's results he is well on his way to immortality. I just wanted to point out how far ahead Nadal is at his age.
OH please he's only 19. How do we know what he'll be doing 2, 3, 5 years from now? I think it's way too early to tell. I think it's ridiculous to say he's on his way to immortality, just like it would be ridiculous to say Roger will break Pete's record of 14 slams when he's only half way there.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
oh come on!
Im rafa fan, but I honestly doubt that he will be able to win someday Wimbledon. if someone is close to "inmortality" like a poster said, is Roger. and he's everyday closer to do really well on clay. he has showed last week in Montecarlo.
given his clay orientation, he would need a hell of an adaptation to do well on grass, difficult to do a great clay court season in these conditions, and he needs the clay points for his ranking.
Forget it.
I hate it when people think that just, because Nadal is 19 he still has lots of room for improvement, because infact I think Federer still has greater room for improvement at 24 than Nadal.
It would be great to see Federer vs Nadal in grass. But that won't happen in the next years. Why? Because Nadal needs a miracle to get into a grass final...
Conclusion:
Federer's worst surface is clay: He's the 2nd best player there.
Nadal's worst surface is grass: He doesn't even belong in the top 20 in this surface.
This post is ridiculous, Nadal does not have the game to win a major oother than RG he might sneek in a AO but he wont come close on grass or at the US open.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
mirkaland said:
OH please he's only 19. How do we know what he'll be doing 2, 3, 5 years from now? I think it's way too early to tell. I think it's ridiculous to say he's on his way to immortality, just like it would be ridiculous to say Roger will break Pete's record of 14 slams when he's only half way there.
It's much too soon to talk about entire career comparisons at this point given Nadal's age but some people are merely impressed with what he has done SO FAR. Is there anything wrong with that?
Furthermore, I agree that it's ridiculous to say that Roger WILL break Pete's 14 slams record but it's not ridiculous to say that Roger's accomplishments at this point are very impressive and he's very capable of beating that record. Don't you agree?
This is - at least as far as I am concerned - not at all a GOAT discussion (because for me, it's utterly ridiculous to do that at this point) but simply the observation that his accomplisments at his age are remarkable. Nothing more, nothing less. What's the problem with that?
As a Rafa fan, what he has done so far impresses me a lot but he needs to do more on various surfaces before we can start about the GOAT thing. A lot can happen over the years.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
Cool down man, the GOAT competition is a tough one.
It's mainly defined by slams. TMS fluctuate, change and disapear, so that doesn't count so much. Rafa has time, but GOAT is not about time only.
Who are in the GOAT league ?
Borg: 6 RG, 5 Wimbledons
Well, let Rafa win 6 RG, he'll be busy with that, then we'll see about the Wimby's...
Forget it.
Laver: 11 slams, 2 Grand Slams, including one open era GS.
The Grand Slam is the Holly Grail of men's tennis. Rafa doing the Grand Slam is almost impossible given his clay orientation, he would need a hell of an adaptation to do well on grass, difficult to do a great clay court season in these conditions, and he needs the clay points for his ranking.
Forget it.
Sampras: 14 slams, 6 years as number 1. Sampras was very lucky not to get any major injury in his long and successful career. His game evolved to serve and volley, and his serve alone allowed him to preserve his body by shortening points in the second part of his career. Quite the opposite of Rafa's grinding and contorsioning type of game. Plus the 7 Wimby's set is something very prestigious Rafa can only dream of.
Forget it.
Federer is trying to join GOAT league and you know what ? He's dominating on hard and grass, is second on clay and has won 7 slam finals on 7.
Give Rafa some time to do something similar, but he will need a few years.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
Purple Rainbow said:
Lately we have seen many threads debating wether Federer or Sampras is the greatest payer ever. It has been pointed out how similar the two players are statwise at a certain juncture in their career.
It lately struck me just how much ahead Nadal is of both Sampras and Federer as a teenager. Here's to put things into perspective.
Nadal has now won..
14 titles - well ahead of the likes of Rafter, Mecir and Ferrero, trailing players like Safin and Rosset by only 1 title.
5 TMS events - just insane for a teenager, already 6th on the all-time list.
a lone slam. But neither Sampras nor Federer did better as a teen.
The sole reason Nadal hasn't been number one yet is because there is a certain Swiss powerhouse in the game. Yet Nadal finished 2005 with a ranking point total which would have seen him as #1 each but one year between 1997 and 2003.
Nadal obviously posted most of his results on clay, but he has proven he can win on other surfaces too, with masters shields on carpet and hard court. In a way you can picture Nadal as an inverse Sampras. Rafa has clay as his base, can play well on carpet and hard courts too, but has one surface which might become an eternal problem... grass. It will be very interesting to see if Nadal can adept his game to become a force on grass too and if he manages to prevent the mid twenties burnout which seems to be common among clay court specialists these days.
This is a little ridiculous. Nadal is a great champion, supreme on the clay, but not in the same league as a Federer, Sampras, Borg or Laver.
Comparisons between Federer and Sampras I believe are absolutely correct and justified. The one thing that will put Federer ahead of Sampras is a French Open title which he is planning to peak for this year.
Right now I think it is best to think of Nadal as a "souped-up" Muster. The kid has got great wheels, great strokes and a very strong mind and will. He could continue to frustrate Federer on clay and occasionally on hardcourts or carpet, but he can't ever come near to the Grand Slam records of Federer and the aforementioned all-time greats.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
Castafiore said:
This is - at least as far as I am concerned - not at all a GOAT discussion (because for me, it's utterly ridiculous to do that at this point) but simply the observation that his accomplisments at his age are remarkable. Nothing more, nothing less. What's the problem with that?
As a Rafa fan, what he has done so far impresses me a lot but he needs to do more on various surfaces before we can start about the GOAT thing. A lot can happen over the years.
There's nothing wrong with it, but when the poster says "but with Nadal's results he is well on his way to immortality" to me that means the point of this thread was to put him up there as possibly the GOAT. All I'm saying is it's ridiculous to think about that when he's only 19. His accomplishments are VERY impressive especially for his age, but lets wait and see where he's at 3-5 years from now.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
SLICK said:
This is a little ridiculous. Nadal is a great champion, supreme on the clay, but not in the same league as a Federer, Sampras, Borg or Laver.
Comparisons between Federer and Sampras I believe are absolutely correct and justified. The one thing that will put Federer ahead of Sampras is a French Open title which he is planning to peak for this year.
Right now I think it is best to think of Nadal as a "souped-up" Muster. The kid has got great wheels, great strokes and a very strong mind and will. He could continue to frustrate Federer on clay and occasionally on hardcourts or carpet, but he can't ever come near to the Grand Slam records of Federer and the aforementioned all-time greats.
I am not saying Nadal is necessarily on his way to being goat. As I said before, it's way to early to tell. What I want to prove with this stats is that Nadal is much further in career accomplishments then Federer and Sampras were at similar age. Nadals career achievements roughly equal those of Marat Safin and Juan Carlos Ferrero already.
I like stats, numbers and records, that's why I brought this subject up. I am a Federer fan, but I am definitely not blind for the achievements of others.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
mirkaland said:
There's nothing wrong with it, but when the poster says "but with Nadal's results he is well on his way to immortality" to me that means the point of this thread was to put him up there as possibly the GOAT. All I'm saying is it's ridiculous to think about that when he's only 19. His accomplishments are VERY impressive especially for his age, but lets wait and see where he's at 3-5 years from now.
There's quite a difference between immortalily and goat. I think if Nadal were to retire today, he would have achieved immortality already. People will recall him forever as a player that could have been so great.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
Impossible to say now, his status in history depends on slams. He's got one slam and nobody knows how many more he could pile up.
A good record would be 5 Roland Garros to start with, but it's already huge given his relative physical fragility.
Maybe 1 or 2 AO.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
Purple Rainbow said:
There's quite a difference between immortalily and goat. I think if Nadal were to retire today, he would have achieved immortality already. People will recall him forever as a player that could have been so great.
I'm not arguing that he'll be remembered as a great tennis player. But he's only 19 and none of us know what will happen in the next 3-5 years. I just don't see the point in talking about how someone will be remembered in historical terms when they're so young and at the beginning of their carrer.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
mirkaland said:
I'm not arguing that he'll be remembered as a great tennis player. But he's only 19 and none of us know what will happen in the next 3-5 years. I just don't see the point in talking about how someone will be remembered in historical terms when they're so young and at the beginning of their carrer.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
I'm not arguing that he'll be remembered as a great tennis player. But he's only 19 and none of us know what will happen in the next 3-5 years. I just don't see the point in talking about how someone will be remembered in historical terms when they're so young and at the beginning of their carrer.
I hate it when people think that just, because Nadal is 19 he still has lots of room for improvement, because infact I think Federer still has greater room for improvement at 24 than Nadal.
Hewitt, who may have peaked in 2004-2005, did not improve greatly from the age of 20 to 25. Roddick did not improve much from the age of 20-23. Now compare that with the huge strides that Ljubicic and Blake both made at 25. We can never know how much work a professional player is truly putting in his game and how much they can improve if they really tried. Agassi went from being a 'haircut and a forehand' to the guy with arguably the best backhand on tour. Only time will tell, which player has has yet to reach their peak.
Re: Forget the Federer-Sampras comparisons, here's Nadal!
It's great to see a Federer vs Nadal in clay, both are the seeds 1 and 2, so they can only play against each other in finals.
It would be great to see Federer vs Nadal in grass. But that won't happen in the next years. Why? Because Nadal needs a miracle to get into a grass final...
Conclusion:
Federer's worst surface is clay: He's the 2nd best player there.
Nadal's worst surface is grass: He doesn't even belong in the top 20 in this surface.
Federer > Nadal
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Mens Tennis Forums
18.5M posts
87.7K members
Since 2002
A forum community dedicated to male tennis players and enthusiasts. Talk about everything from the ATP, NSMTA, to college Tennis and even everything about equipment. It's all here!