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49K views 217 replies 18 participants last post by  monkey247 
#1 ·
Marat's back in the Duma today. :) Watch it live on Vesti.ru (better transmission quality) or UStream.

Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands, like this guy. :p It's half term, it's Bank Holiday, and therefore 11C outside :rolleyes: ...

 
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#109 ·
I will try to explain, why women are responsible for spoiling the men.

Imagine the following situation:
Ever since your birth everyone adores you, your mom spoils you rotten and tells you how special you are, your sister is spoiling you, your female cousins do that too, let leave the aunties and grandmas. You grow up and see that the neighbor girls adore you too. Later on the female colleagues tend to take a good care for you. So, wouldn't you think you are special and the world owes you something? And who allowed that?

I don't think the right word is "sexism", it's a simple demand and supply issue. Men are in deficit, hence more treasured.
 
#110 ·
Ever since your birth everyone adores you, your mom spoils you rotten and tells you how special you are, your sister is spoiling you, your female cousins do that too, let leave the aunties and grandmas. You grow up and see that the neighbor girls adore you too. Later on the female colleagues tend to take a good care for you. So, wouldn't you think you are special and the world owes you something? And who allowed that? I don't think the right word is "sexism", it's a simple demand and supply issue. Men are in deficit, hence more treasured.
If there is a deficit of men, who caused that?
 
#112 ·
Good discussion girls. Especially in the Eastern Europe maybe, there's also the so-called 'risk behaviour' of young males - car crashes, all kind of other accidents (involing alcohol and drugs). So here for example by the age of 40 there are more living females than males. Hope you understand what I wanted to say.
 
#114 ·
This looks like the classic east-west divide to me....and there are , at least the way I see it, clear historical and cultural reasons for it....its not just an eastern european thing - clearly - I mean...

Why do women in China abort female embryos when they can only have one child....why are boys more prized and valued in much of southeast Asian culture.....? the answer is pretty obvious - men hold the power and they determine the values in these societies - as they once did (and, lets not kid ourselves, still do in western society just maybe not so obviously)...now, I don't see it as women 'allowing' men to live their entire lives in a juvenile bubble - nor is it men's 'fault'that they do when not challenged or encouraged to evolve....

Now, just as I consider men and women to be 'equal', I also consider they share the responsibility for this scenario equally - the thing is, if things are going to change, I think it is primarily women who have to put that change in motion - they have to examine themselves and their wants and needs just as men do - and while there are still a majority of women who comply with Marat's view that women "realise" themselves through their husbands...and cannot see themselves as individuals first and foremost then....well, things will remain the same...

historically, it's interesting that in the UK at least, the fact that many women -having worked in munitions and on the land and realised themselves as individuals in the second world war - were not so easy to get back into the kitchens may well have contributed to the feminist 'revolution' of the 60's (hypothesizing here...so stay with me)...in the east, the end of the second world war led down the dark path of communist oppression - women sure had to WORK like men in the new world of egalitarianism... but they also had to retain their role as 'housewives' as WELL...they never had a chance to have a revolution in terms of gender roles.....we in the west were free to do that - they weren't - and in other situations, its poverty that keeps the woman down as much as anything else...

and in Russia in particular, as mer pointed out, the real problem of the life expectancy of available men - its no real surprise that so many russian women are willing to sell themselves into marriage - or - a life of domestic servitude in order to get out - and have a man to 'support' her...until women are ready to take full responsibility for themselves, financially and socially, we will never free ourselves of the 'tyranny' of man - and frankly, men have been ruling this planet (with a few exceptions, of course - yet how many of the great female 'rulers' of history were famed for being 'like a man'...?) for way, WAY too long - and look at what a fine mess they have made of it....women really need to start standing up for themselves and demand change!!!

:-( OK - crosspatch rant over and open to discussion! :)
 
#118 ·
Im going to jump in here because being much older than most of you, I am sure, I have raised children by myself and this was in the 60s when things were chaotic. Everyday was a fight just to survive and put food on the table and get my kids off to school--no help from their father and no help from the so-called government because it was run by men and they had no clue what it was to be responsible for anyone other than themselves. Today I see that changing and more men taking responsibility for their kids, although not a lot of "growing up" going on. Gender roles have been pretty much the same for a long, long time and changing those is going to be difficult. I leave it in the capable hands of strong women like those of you posting here to get the job done. Don't let me down!!
 
#121 ·
Im going to jump in here because being much older than most of you, I am sure, I have raised children by myself and this was in the 60s when things were chaotic. Everyday was a fight just to survive and put food on the table and get my kids off to school--no help from their father and no help from the so-called government because it was run by men and they had no clue what it was to be responsible for anyone other than themselves. Today I see that changing and more men taking responsibility for their kids, although not a lot of "growing up" going on. Gender roles have been pretty much the same for a long, long time and changing those is going to be difficult. I leave it in the capable hands of strong women like those of you posting here to get the job done. Don't let me down!!
greeneyes, that is a long, tough, thankless, lonely road, especially in those days when there was still some stigma attached to being divorced/single with children. That you survived such a situation is down to your own strength and capabilities, so massive respect to you. :hug: I hope your kids never blamed you for any perceived parenting "deficits". If they're parents now themselves, they'll know just how much you did for them and how much you gave for their happiness.

And yes, men don't understand the costs involved, because they choose to remain remote from the task of child-rearing and thus have no understanding of the needs of mothers and children. I suppose this is changing, but very slowly.

Such a complex subject, my tired brain won't do it justice tonight. Maybe tomorrow ...
 
#119 ·
Good point, Ira - the issue of children is a difficult one....but here's my personal take on it.
OK, leaving aside for the moment the fact that becoming pregnant is a choice - (recognising that there are many "man-made" impediments to women across the world actually exercisnig the 'right' NOT to have children) part of the 'price' women have paid for their 'freedom' is that 'choice' about "career or kids' - and obviously personal circumstances make that an easire chioce for some its easy to have both and for others it's not - now, part of the difficulty is the fact that socially (and I am tallking primarity about 'the West' here) the family structure has evolved AWAY from the extended family - so the rearing of children has become the responsibity of the individual rather than the group - resulting in the child-care industry ! part of a woman's choice about whether they have a child should therefore be partly determined by her ability to raise the child in OR out of a co-habitive (did I just invent an english word there...?) relationship....

....personally speaking, and with the UTMOST respect to women who have children and who struggle and fight to do the best for them ....I PERSONALLY think there is just toomuch emphasis put onthis notion of the "Right" to have a child...andall the effort of medical research put into circumventing biology....I am sure it must be very upsetting for a woman who discovers she is biologically unable to have a child...but - frankly, there is a REASON for that - if you can't have a child - it's sad for you, but you don't have some kind of unalienable RIGHT to have one anyway just because science has made it possible - there are enough orphans in the world after all.. and it seems to me that conversely, overall, while the affluent nations have falling birthrates, the poorest, most poverty-stricken nations have the highest - yes, women in these places basically churn out child after child on the basis that maybe one or two will survive to theoretically support the parents in their old age...what chance of self determination for these women - uneducated, brainwashed by religious (male-inspired) dogma about their role and purpose in life under the guise of "faith"...????

The world population is completely F*C#*D because of human - read primarity MALE interventions - for example, China decided what - some decades ago that there were too many of them - so they brutally enforce a one child policy: What happens? they start killing the girls in favour of the boys so now they are suddenly waking up the the dual fact that - A) they have an aging population and not enough young people to satisfy the projected workforce requirements, and not only that,B) they have too many men and not enough women to balance the future population - now, very sorry to break it to the guys out there, but in fact, biologically speaking, we don't NEED too many men - just a few are enough... because human beings don't seem to consider themselves just another species on the planet, we have stuffed not just our environment, but pretty much all natural population regulation as a result of human intervention.....

OK - deep breath, nez - time to go to a meeting and talk about something completely different....I seem to be ranting a lot these days!!!
 
#122 ·
Monkey, thanks for the kudos. They are much appreciated. You are right, it was hard but we all made it and when my kids became parents they did indeed recognize the sacrifice and difficulties of parenting. Being a parent is the most important thing you can do in life, so do it as best you can. When life hands you a spoon and says "dig a ditch", just dig it. It eventually gets done.
 
#123 ·
:lol: Tweeted yesterday by RusPoliceWatch:

LifeNews: Member of Duma IT committee wants @SouthPark banned in Russia after #FreePussyRiot episode, by @lifenews_ru
Full episode ("A Scause for Applause") here (after Travian advert). The Pussy Riot reference is right at the end.

I hope that Duma deputies are not so po-faced these days, that they don't understand obvious satire. Maybe something got lost in translation ...


Tweet
 
#127 ·
It seems our deputies are having some kind of clown competion today. One wants to ban SouthPark, another suggested to shoot members of elected opposition council :tape:
What? :eek: Say WHAT ...?

What's next?
Judging by the prevailing level of debate in the Duma, a p*ssing contest, I reckon. :shrug:

Please, someone, anyone, Dinara, save Marat ... :sad:
 
#129 · (Edited)
Re: 2012 Photo Thread

Well, one thing hasn't changed...Marat is simply one of THE most photogenic people you can imagine....he mesmerises with his charm...and those insanely beautiful blue-brown crazy-paving eyes....how I miss his funny, ironic, self-depreciating humour (which still looks to be on show inthese fotos)which made his old tennis interviews so entertaining....these days I just wish he would just look gorgeous and not speak - just like a good 'supermodel' should.....and forget all this 'I want to be more than a cute guy in a suit" nonsense....

WOW...it never ceases to amaze me to which extent people actually take him for nothing else but a handsome empty-headed!

All his previous interviews, all his great, funny, intelligent character ultimately means nothing, you are not even giving him a bit of credit for maybe knowing better what he actually speaks about because of his MP position.

First it was United Russia, then he whistled in the church (oh, how I LOVE this old Romanian saying, it's just so suggestive!) with his any Pussy Whatever rant...now talk about fanbase annihilation techniques!

As I have previously written somewhere else on this forum, I personally share his opinion in this Pussy Riot issue 100%, so to me that's nothing else but just another proof that he's a guy with a good deal of common sense.

My point here, of course, is not to reignite the Pussy Riot dispute, but to simply ask how come those of you who basically entirely refute his political options and speech on terms of (let's be honest!) dumbness still follow him?!

Of course he's good looking & shit, but come on: there are lots of other good looking guys, no need losing your time on a guy who lets Pussy Riot do time without at least burning himself alive in the Red Square, thus bringing the injustices of the Russian system to the attention of the world?!

He must be the best looking man in the history of mankind...being able to get away with it all!


As for the Women's issues in Eastern Europe, their dependency on men, their secondary role in the society...look: as a woman living in this part of the world, who went to university all by herself, who was raised by a single mother, who works in a highly macho environment...my personal opinion is that the women are those to be blamed for this situation.

The women who refuse to think for themselves, the women who find it comfortably to be taken care of/supported by a man, the women who do not conceive their life not revolving around a man, the women who are too lazy to actually work a real job, to pursue education, the women who deeply disrespect other women, whom they see as enemies. The stupid women. And the plain whores.

So I would not put this solely on the male driven society.

Boys will be boys FOREVER, but, in my opinion, the situation of Eastern Europe women is also due to their inability to back up each other. Women are unable to act as an organized group, while men are.

But I still believe that putting up a silly show in a church is not good publicity for feminism.

And - with all due respect - I do find it almost entertaining that some of you guys speak about feminism and the perils of mysoginy, yet mock his girlfriend's looks. Now that's female bonding! Is she supposed to be beautiful in order to be with him? Is it her fault if she isn't (she actually is, stop ranting!)?

Some of you are also shocked that she hasn't already poisoned his soup for his views on marriage, while you use photos of him as avatars!

Inez, honestly, how is one supposed to read your feminist speech when your avatar is plainly a very, very machist image of Marat, no less?
 
#131 ·
Dammit...OK I will take the bait:
A)I am not aware that ANYONE has refuted his political views "on terms of (let's be honest!) dumbness " - they have been refuted on the basis of philosophy and viewpoint - social and political....

B)I was not disregarding "All his previous interviews, all his great, funny, intelligent character ultimately means nothing" merely mourning their demise and, "you are not even giving him a bit of credit for maybe knowing better what he actually speaks about because of his MP position" - are you saying that being surrounded by party cronies an parroting the party line is indicative of some kind of superior knowledge that we mere observers are too lowly to comprehend??? I am sure his regional week meetings with no doubt hand-picked locals who come and whinge on about building permits and lack of local facilities is absolutely RIVETING for him.....

C)The only reason Marat is not dead yet is because he eats soup with a fork

D) there is more than one way to interpret my avatar - one of which is that he has become a total wa*n*er...

And while I am at it, anyone who has read my opinions over the years I have been posting on this board, whether they agree with me or not, could not deny, I believe, that I have always supported Marat's right to make his own choices and live his own life. I still afford him, and everyone else, that same right, but it does NOT mean that I have to slavishly agree with him - I just think that it is rather a shame that he, apparently, does not afford the same freedom of speech to others that we all enjoy on this board - and to imply, as I understand you to do, that my views on the path he has chosen, and my following his career before and after tennis is based solely on the fact, as you so elegantly put it, that he is "good looking & shit" is clearly wrong and, frankly, bloody insulting.

Also - congratulations on living your own life - I am sure you have worked hard for your achievements - but do you really think Marat would consider you his EQUAL? if you do, I woud love to know what evidence, from his interviews, you would cite to support your belief - and if NOT then it rather makes a mockery of your argument that it's women ultimately to 'blame' for men disregarding them in the workplace and relegating them to second class citizens- wouldn't you say?
 
#133 ·
Oh, Inez, woman, no need to go ballistic over a simple discussion regarding Marat Safin, really!!!

It’s just my personal belief, definitely not intended as “bait” to anyone! Do remember that I personally share his opinion (ok, the Party’s opinion!) in the Pussy Riot issue, having stated it on this forum previously to his stating his own.
So:
A) Maybe as English is not my mother tongue, I did not make myself clear. When I said that people refuted his political views on terms of dumbness, I did not mean that you, guys, are dumb, but that you take him for one because you seem to consider that his doings/sayings are silly and due to his lack of understanding the way things really are.

Moreover, if you don’t count him for a complete idiot, than he must be a rotten bastard, having adhered to the party politics in order to pursue his own obscure and lowly interest, which I also find a bit simplest.

In this regard, I’d like to add that I personally believe that he did not go into politics because he was an ardent patriot who thought that the cure to all pests of Russia is building more tennis facilities, but in order to serve his interests. But to me, that does not automatically make his a bastard and I do not think I have lax moral standards.

And let us remember that, prior to his political career, he openly associated with dubious, if not criminal, figures like Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov.

So he’s no tear drop clean ingénue and we knew it even back in his poster boy days.

B) People in different positions see things differently, it’s axiomatic, really!

You, guys, seem like human rights/feminist enthusiasts, but were you a member of a ferociously criticized ruling party of a country towards which most of the world has bad feelings (because of course the Russian are ultimately going to invade us all, there’s no shore too far!) maybe you would see an event like the Pussy Riot case as a semi-anarchist agitation circus which serves just too well Western anti-Russian propaganda and that could equally became a problematic precedent in a multi-ethnic socially and politically troubled country like Russia.

And therefore see as justified a more severe punishment then just a fine or community work or whatever because the same case in another country would bear a whole different meaning to the society/world, but they’re in Russia, so it’s very much different and based on a reasoning like this it’s not unbelievable that he will see things differently.


C) & D) The place is crowded with fine humorists, what can I say…

I also don’t see why are you so mortified by my saying that his looks are the main reason people follow him and come in here and whatever!

Really, let’s be honest, let’s reread the comments in here, it’s mainly the fact that he’s a very, very good looking man that we cherish and support him so much! Not his defunct tennis, not his outlook on life, not even his humorous persona (Tursunov was always much more hilarious, right, Greeneyes? Or maybe I’m wrong ).

The looks, let’s just admit it and get over it, it’s not the end of the world!

And please don’t feel insulted where it’s not the case, I’ll say it first: the main reason I like Marat Safin is because I find him bloody attractive. Period! I also find him pretty smart and I like whatever seems to be his life philosophy based on his interviews, but honestly I firstly paid him attention because of his looks.

Finally, do I believe that Marat Safin would consider me his equal?

I’m sure (as much as you can be based on interviews, well) that he would. I can’t really start justifying this sentence, so take it like that: I’d bet my underwear that he would! I’ve seen just too many men like him not to be pretty sure about what I say.
 
#134 ·
You, guys, seem like human rights/feminist enthusiasts, but were you a member of a ferociously criticized ruling party of a country towards which most of the world has bad feelings (because of course the Russian are ultimately going to invade us all, there’s no shore too far!) maybe you would see an event like the Pussy Riot case as a semi-anarchist agitation circus which serves just too well Western anti-Russian propaganda and that could equally became a problematic precedent in a multi-ethnic socially and politically troubled country like Russia.

And therefore see as justified a more severe punishment then just a fine or community work or whatever because the same case in another country would bear a whole different meaning to the society/world, but they’re in Russia, so it’s very much different and based on a reasoning like this it’s not unbelievable that he will see things differently.
You seriously confuse the root couse and consequencies. There would have been no agitation circus and there would have been no need to justify more severe punishment if PR case was treated according to the law from the beginning. These women shouldn't have been arrested and kept in jail before trial. The state TV shouldn't have started a massive propaganda campaign portraying these "silly, worthless" girls as public enemies #1 and a serious threat to russian state and Orthodox Church. If the PR girls got such amount undeserved attention it's solely thanks to russian ruling authotities which Marat represents. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion re PR stunt in the Church. However there 2 undeniable things that bacame clear thanks to their stunt. Russian Church showed it's ugly face and russian Kafkain-style justice system was brought to public attention.
Again, Marat is surely entitled to his opinion about these girls as well as I'm entitled to lose my respect for him. And it's not because he considers them worthless. There is one prominent russian art/literature expert who made it clear that he has very negative opinion about the PR, however he called for their release and he stressed many times that he refuses to discuss how bad they and their "art" are as long as the girls are in prison because it's not right morally. I do respect this guy a lot even though I don't agree with his view on the girls.
 
#135 ·
little masha - firstly, I don't think my response to your post was in any way "ballistic" - but I don't agree that our objections to Marat's stated views indicate that we think he is either "dumb" OR a "rotten bastard" - you have come up with that interpretation - I think my points are pretty clear so I would prefer it if you didn't subsequently "put words into my mouth"

I think the days when 'the West' feared "invasion" by Russia are long, long gone - and frankly, Russia is hardly in a position to "invade' anyone (outside of its smaller Caucasian neighbors) - so your (I assume sarcastic)reinforcement of the old stereotypes hardly moves the debate forward...

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion regarding the Pussy Riot affair and what it means in the wider context of Russian politics and the rule (or lack of )Law - and you are as free to speculate on Marat's motivation in going into politics as the rest of us - and I have never denied Marat's good looks and celebrate them along with everyone else - but have I mis-interpreted you ? both your posts read in a slightly passive-aggressive way - you seem to be leveling some unspecified accusation at me for expressing my disappointment with what Marat seems to be evolving into by implying that there is some underlying inconsistency in my arguments - I don't have a problem with you because "the main reason I like Marat Safin is because I find him bloody attractive." - but I wouldn't assume that that is the limit of everyone's interest.
 
#137 ·
BTW - anyone else thinking its rather interesting that Medvedev is apparently suggesting that the 2 imprisoned members of Pussy Riot be freed? he also made a statement prior, I think, to the appeal - that there should be leniency - at least that is what was reported here....so what is behind that....?
 
#139 ·
I firsty wanted to reply to both you, Mer and Inez, extensively, but in the end I guess it's useless.

Despise him for whatever you wish and see Pussy Riot as victims of tyrany. Your right, of course.

I strongly disagree and basta.

It's a waste of time discussing with people who are so sure they are right and who would not even try seeing things from another perspective. Now I'm talking to Inez, not to Mer.

You saw violation of human rights dismissed by a ferocious mysoginist and that's the way it's gonna stay 'till kingdom come, regardless of whatever other opinion anyone might suggest. I'm not PR to the Russia government. I'm just saying why I think the case was handled the way it was and why this doesn't seem unjustified to me. Again: TO ME. It's a personal opinion.

Also, Inez, nobody's putting words in your mouth, but you do over react in regards to a discussion on a forum! Chill out! What's with the irritated tone of your posts? Are you even serious?

Bottom line, given the turn discussions took on this forum and that (and I'm sorry to say it) I can't stand a smug self-righteouss attitude, regardless of how well intended the person might be, I am deffinitely out of this forum.

Have a nice time, ladies, enjoying Marat Safin for whatever reasons.

Except for his looks. The looks never mattered!

Good day!
 
#144 ·
Oh, some heated discussion here.
Well Marat has never wanted to be a huge media figure I'd say, and that is good so. :)
People can have different opinions about Pussy Riot, I respect that. That's what democracy is about IMO. I don't think it's all black&white.
 
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